New Canon EOS 300D - DPChallenge Forums

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

08/20/2003 03:35:58 PM · #51

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

It's just in a funny place, on the front of the camera near the lense release button (at least that's what it looked like from the front view of the camera).

Yup, same place that is on the D60 at least.

magnetic9999

Canon EOS-20D

08/20/2003 03:37:11 PM · #52

redundant .. deleted .. :)

Message edited by author 2003-08-20 15:37:38.

paganini

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

08/20/2003 03:48:27 PM · #53

One thing that concerns me is whether Canon is moving toward a "DX" like lens series (EF-S mount) -- whether it's a short live thing for the REbel or they're thinking about doing that for all future camera designs.

If so, then i'd say anyone who bought the 10D is seriously screwed because the camera won't take any lenses for that mount. Granted, there is one cheapo lense, but they might come out with some "L" lenses later and we'd be cut out of the loop unless we end up buying another 10Dxxxx later for another $1200.

I hate to say this, but if Canon has this mindset of doing little gimmicks like this to make people upgrade every 2 years, i'd be switching to Nikon, which at least have a roadmap on what you'd expect their digital direction to go -- i.e. 1.5x crop factor, DX lenses, etc. With Canon, there aren't such roadmaps with their full frame 1Ds, 1.3x 1D and 1.6x 10D/300D.

Of course, if they can come out with a EOS 3D full frame for $2000 a year from now, then i'd rest easy :)

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

08/20/2003 03:49:09 PM · #54

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

It's just in a funny place, on the front of the camera near the lense release button (at least that's what it looked like from the front view of the camera).

Yup, same place that is on the D60 at least.

Looks like the same place as the 10D as well. This is probably the norm now for the EOS series. I was just comparing to the location of the button on my Elan II film camera (on the back).

paganini

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

08/20/2003 03:59:23 PM · #55

Actually they're just employing good old Microsoft strategy. Sell software to compete against each other (taking away shares from each other but gaining marketshare OVERALL), in this case, sell two very similar bodies, either way, they gain market share and suck user into the EF mount lenses.

Smart strategy actually. And you're right, a lot of people will now buy the Rebel instead of 10D, and people who buy the 10D will buy it for the features that Rebel doesn't have. But I am thinking that Canon will make more profit margin on the Rebel than the 10D.

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

see, that's the thing - the feature set is SOOO close that i think the new camera is going to eat right into the 10D's sales because the clearest difference between the 2 is the price.

The funny part is that they could have probably still sold a lot more 10D's at $500 more. I didn't think the 10D's momentum was over yet. Who knows, maybe their profit margin on the 300D is higher because maybe it's really cheap to produce.

One thing I do wish my 10D has was weather-sealing. That would be a clear build-quality difference between the two. As it is, the 10D is sturdy but then again, I don't use my camera to hammer nails. I.e. I need some sturdiness that has a practical application.

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM

08/20/2003 05:31:29 PM · #56

Originally posted by paganini:

The Rebel Ti has a similar sort of 'designed for one camera only' EF lens too. They have tended to do that for the cheaper SLRs so that they can sell it as a bundled package. This EF-S is maybe more tied to the 300D than the one in the rebel Ti case (where it is more a style thing than anything specific) but it isn't the first time they've done a cheapo lens to be 'kit' purchase only.

STEINR

Canon EOS-7D

08/20/2003 07:39:44 PM · #57

i did not sdee this link posted

//www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/eosdigital/index.html

08/20/2003 09:44:55 PM · #58

Detailed article on the 10D vs. the 300D

10D vs. 300D

...the Digital Rebel doesn't allow for the selection of AF mode. While you can choose between manual focus and autofocus (by flipping the AF/M switch on any Canon EF lens), in the exposure modes of most use to serious shooters - Shutter Priority, Aperture Priority, Program and Manual - the Digital Rebel chooses between One Shot AF and AI Servo AF automatically on the fly, in a mode called AI Focus. The only way to lock down the focus mode is to choose one of the camera's Basic Zones: Portrait, Landscape, Close-up, Sports, Night Portrait or Flash Off. With the camera set to Sports, for example, the AF mode is fixed on AI Servo. Unfortunately, the Basic Zone settings, which are geared for neophyte amateur shooters, impose other compromises, such as no control over the camera's image processing Parameter Sets. So, it's doubtful that they will be a usable AF mode selection workaround in most cases. If there is one key feature difference between the Digital Rebel and 10D that will see serious Canon shooters step up to the 10D, it's this one.

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

geez.

if this thing is spec'd almost identical to the 10D, what was even the POINT of the 10D?

and why would anyone keep wanting to buy 10D's now that this camera came out (less than 5 months after)?

any ideas?

08/20/2003 10:25:50 PM · #59

Originally posted by jimmythefish:

I wonder how accurate that quote is because

1/ it doesn't make much sense to have no manual focus point selection
2/ other material mentions it does allow it
3/ the Rebel Ti certainly allows it
4/ the 10D (from which the focus system is apparently just reused) allows it.

08/20/2003 10:29:38 PM · #60

I agree, it does seem silly...but then, when you throw marketing strategy into the mix all reason is lost.

Message edited by author 2003-08-20 22:29:51.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

08/20/2003 10:34:22 PM · #61

Originally posted by jimmythefish:

I agree, it does seem silly...but then, when you throw marketing strategy into the mix all reason is lost.

True, but I've read a lot of reviews that completely miss obvious features. A recent PEI mag took Capture One to task for not allowing individual RGB adjustments. Went on and on about it and basically recommended not buying the product because of these deficencies. Yet, included a picture with the review showing 'work on each channel independantly' box unchecked.

Also, reading between the lines on that 'review' it doesn't sound like he's actually used or held one of the cameras

Actually, I just read the 300D manual - that review is misleading.

'Section 3 :Selecting an AF Point
The AF point is used for focusing. The AF point can be selected automatically by the camera or manually by you. In the Basic Zone modes and mode, the AF point selection is automatic only. In the

, , , and modes, the AF point can be selected either automatically or manually.

The camera selects the AF point automatically according to situation.
You can select any of the seven AF points manually. This is best when you want to be sure to focus on a particular subject, or to use quick AF
function to help you compose a particular shot quickly.'

You can read the manual yourself at
//www.canoneos.com/digitalrebel/download/manual.pdf

Page 62 discusses the focus point selection modes, so you can at least pick the focus point, if not the focus mode.

Message edited by author 2003-08-20 22:50:48.

paganini

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

08/20/2003 10:38:58 PM · #62

He's right.

Check the manual: //www.canoneos.com/digitalrebel/download/manual.pdf

Furthermore, there are restriction in selection type of metering. You can't use center weighted average unless the mode is in MANUAL mode. You can't use partial metering unless you are using AE lock. Pretty stupid if you ask me, but hey, i guess there is a reason why people pay $1500 for the 10D :-)

And I don't see any description on "AI" modes in there, just the manual specifies in SPORTS mode, the focus will track, else it won't.

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by jimmythefish:
Detailed article on the 10D vs. the 300D

10D vs. 300D

...the Digital Rebel doesn't allow for the selection of AF mode. While you can choose between manual focus and autofocus (by flipping the AF/M switch on any Canon EF lens), in the exposure modes of most use to serious shooters - Shutter Priority, Aperture Priority, Program and Manual - the Digital Rebel chooses between One Shot AF and AI Servo AF automatically on the fly, in a mode called AI Focus. The only way to lock down the focus mode is to choose one of the camera's Basic Zones: Portrait, Landscape, Close-up, Sports, Night Portrait or Flash Off. With the camera set to Sports, for example, the AF mode is fixed on AI Servo. Unfortunately, the Basic Zone settings, which are geared for neophyte amateur shooters, impose other compromises, such as no control over the camera's image processing Parameter Sets. So, it's doubtful that they will be a usable AF mode selection workaround in most cases. If there is one key feature difference between the Digital Rebel and 10D that will see serious Canon shooters step up to the 10D, it's this one.

I wonder how accurate that quote is because

1/ it doesn't make much sense to have no manual focus point selection
2/ other material mentions it does allow it
3/ the Rebel Ti certainly allows it
4/ the 10D (from which the focus system is apparently just reused) allows it.

300D manual

08/20/2003 10:43:53 PM · #63

Originally posted by paganini:

The AI modes are mentioned in the feature tables on pg 122/123. They do seem to have made some pretty arbitary restrictions on feature combination though - like you said, got to be a reason to put down the big bucks for the more expensive controls, even if its the same guts.

Same way they seem to have crippled the remote/ shutter release options while using the same connectors, so only the cheap releases will work. Does remind me in a lot of the ways that I'm dissappointed with the Rebel I have too.

Message edited by author 2003-08-20 22:55:30.

08/20/2003 11:01:06 PM · #64

I'm not meaning to spread any disinformation, though I believe the review is correct in that it doesn't appear to let you select AI Servo AF or One Shot AF in the 'Creative Zone' (shutter priority, aperture priority, manual etc.). The first page Gordon referred to explained the AF points, not the modes. From what I can see you can't select AI servo or AI one shot manually. You can only select AI Servo AF in the 'Sports' mode, which has its own constraints. If you wanted to use AI Servo autofocus with an aperture priority, for example, you'd be hooped unless it selected it for you. If you wanted to use a manual white balance with AI servo, you'd be hooped 'cause you can't. That little chart can serve up a whole bunch of disappointment if you cook up scenarios. This could be problematic...