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07/24/2007 12:09:10 AM · #1 |
So last night i made a thread about the band i was going to shoot. well I've found out that they pretty much want free photos, but i understand as there just starting out. They said at their concerts on their merch table they'd put up a section showcasing my work with business cards...
and i would be their exclusive photog, shooting their shows and promo shots, which would help me get lots more exposure, and theyd get more exposure as well, which could lead to other gigs, and maybe some money gigs...
i dont know what to do... help..?
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07/24/2007 12:13:17 AM · #2 |
if you needed the exposure badly, AND you think this band could give you that, then go for it. i would. some calls it making yourself cheap, but i see it as an investment.
but i'm sure you'll get different advise from other more pro-photographers on the site. |
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07/24/2007 12:16:03 AM · #3 |
Im with crayon partially on this. your being slightly used, but for the most part if you need the exposure and or the practice go for it. Id draw the bottom line at travel expenses if any food for the day. If you work a day job and can squeeze in some more charges figure what ud make in the time on ur normal job. AT the most of course.
Message edited by author 2007-07-24 00:16:17. |
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07/24/2007 12:16:57 AM · #4 |
I don't know if I'd do it absolutely free.
Maybe a cut of the profits on the first CD? j/k (maybe only half kidding)
Doing it for cost may be an option. Explain that you're just starting out as well.
I'm no pro, just leery of giving things away.
It all depends on how well you know the band and how much you trust your potential exposure. |
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07/24/2007 12:20:28 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
Im with crayon partially on this. your being slightly used, but for the most part if you need the exposure and or the practice go for it. Id draw the bottom line at travel expenses if any food for the day. If you work a day job and can squeeze in some more charges figure what ud make in the time on ur normal job. AT the most of course. |
well i would do the shoot on a day off. I travel on the bus, because i dont have my full license yet :(
so i could do it for free and just say they have to drive me.
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07/24/2007 12:22:30 AM · #6 |
I think if I were in your shoes right now I would probably go with time for prints with the understanding that you can (and will) use the shots in your own portfolio. I would let them use sized down versions for websites or for fliers and other such uses. I would also make it clear that if they use any shots for other than promotional use (things like sales of prints or cd covers) that you WOULD be charging a nominal fee. You do need the exposure right? Make it a win/win situation for both of you. After all, if they're a decent band, they have contacts with other decent bands...
Message edited by author 2007-07-24 00:23:28.
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07/24/2007 12:23:27 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
I don't know if I'd do it absolutely free.
Maybe a cut of the profits on the first CD? j/k (maybe only half kidding)
Doing it for cost may be an option. Explain that you're just starting out as well.
I'm no pro, just leery of giving things away.
It all depends on how well you know the band and how much you trust your potential exposure. |
they are getting bigger, recently they were a big locals radio stations band of the month.
and there music is pretty good.
and when i shoot their concerts ill just make sure that i get my cover covered
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07/24/2007 12:23:34 AM · #8 |
Yer never gonna get any money from anyone you give free work to. If you shoot for this band, never expect to collect a dime from them in the future. I would offer to give them a few freebie photos and nothing more. People who are looking at the merchandise on their tables aren't looking for photographers, so that exposure isn't gonna get you anywhere.
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07/24/2007 12:24:05 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
I think if I were in your shoes right now I would probably go with time for prints with the understanding that you can (and will) use the shots in your own portfolio. I would let them use sized down versions for websites or for fliers and other such uses. I would also make it clear that if they use any shots for other than promotional use (sales of prints or cd covers) that you WOULD be charging a nominal fee. You do need the exposure right? Make it a win/win situation for both of you. After all, if they're a decent band, they have contacts with other decent bands... |
great advise here, assuming you're going to do it for "free" as i mentioned earlier. also noisemaker had a good point about them covering your expenses while on the job. |
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07/24/2007 12:24:43 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by noisemaker:
and when i shoot their concerts ill just make sure that i get my cover covered |
You should just have to have them put you on 'the list' to get in 'with the band'!
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07/24/2007 12:26:56 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
Originally posted by noisemaker:
and when i shoot their concerts ill just make sure that i get my cover covered |
You should just have to have them put you on 'the list' to get in 'with the band'! |
hah yeahh, and i am underage so its another issue, because i think theymostly play bar shows, buut ive shot a bar show before and was never ID'd
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07/24/2007 12:30:56 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by noisemaker:
Originally posted by TooCool:
Originally posted by noisemaker:
and when i shoot their concerts ill just make sure that i get my cover covered |
You should just have to have them put you on 'the list' to get in 'with the band'! |
hah yeahh, and i am underage so its another issue, because i think theymostly play bar shows, buut ive shot a bar show before and was never ID'd |
I think just to make sure that there are no legal issues involved that you made your age clear up front when you show up at the club/venue. If you are on the bands list, you should still be able to get into most legit establishments.
Message edited by author 2007-07-24 00:31:20.
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07/24/2007 12:32:48 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Yer never gonna get any money from anyone you give free work to. If you shoot for this band, never expect to collect a dime from them in the future. I would offer to give them a few freebie photos and nothing more. People who are looking at the merchandise on their tables aren't looking for photographers, so that exposure isn't gonna get you anywhere. |
I have to agree with John all the way they might be your friends, but When I had my own construction company I would charge everyone for everything. Don't ever be afraid to charge anyone because you don't work for your enemys. Good luck!
Message edited by author 2007-07-24 00:34:31. |
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07/24/2007 12:33:17 AM · #14 |
I shoot a couple fo bands for free but only bc they are my friends. I do have a deal with the hiestclick, selling some of their prints on my dpcpronts account & sharing the profits.
I say work something out even if it is small. They can cough up 100 beans for ur hard work.
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07/24/2007 12:33:59 AM · #15 |
Don't worry about if you every make money off of them or not. If you worried about that, you would never take any pictures. Besides, if they ever grow to be a big band, you will have all those early shots of them that their fans just eat up later in their career to make money off. And if they don't get that big, if you get very good at doing band shots, you will have a portfolio and the experience to make money of of other bands.
Never pass up a chance to shoot at a gig that will move you forward if that is the direction you want to go. Experience can be worth much more than a few dollars this early in your game.
Mike
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07/24/2007 12:34:46 AM · #16 |
It's a double edged sword, I have to agree with  jmsetzler - if they have used your services without paying for them, what's their incentive to pay you in the future?
I have a VERY close friend who is a glass artist. Over the past few years I have photographed her work when she couldn't afford to pay one of only two professional 'glass' photographers around.
At first I loved it and was doing it for experience, but then I realised that whilst she was giving me things to shoot she was also 'choosing' which pieces she'd send to him and paying him HUGE $'s when she did.
I know my work wasn't completely up to par with his, but I did a great job and much of her website is made up of my photos and styling. I saved her a FORTUNE!
In the end I realised I was 'worth' $'s - just about the same time she stopped asking me - SMILE!
All along there had been promises of a piece of art in kind - but it's never come my way.
In the end - do I regret my choice? No - I learnt a lot and am now quite clever at making good shots with glass and virtually no professional equipment - the only thing I wish I could change is that I WISH I had believed from the beginning that my work was WORTH $'s.
I wonder how they'd feel if they were asked as artists to 'perform' without any chance of income?
Look forward to hearing what you decide.
Lisa |
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07/24/2007 12:40:09 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by iamwoman:
In the end - do I regret my choice? No - I learnt a lot and am now quite clever at making good shots with glass and virtually no professional equipment |
And what is the value of that?
Originally posted by iamwoman:
I wonder how they'd feel if they were asked as artists to 'perform' without any chance of income? |
I'm quite sure that they have performed for free on at least one occasion. What up and coming band hasn't...
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07/24/2007 12:45:50 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Yer never gonna get any money from anyone you give free work to. If you shoot for this band, never expect to collect a dime from them in the future. I would offer to give them a few freebie photos and nothing more. People who are looking at the merchandise on their tables aren't looking for photographers, so that exposure isn't gonna get you anywhere. |
well it still could give me some exposure :P some is better than none.
and its good experience, ultimatly I'd like to get money, but expierence and exposure could get me more money in the future
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07/24/2007 12:50:21 AM · #19 |
I say go for it. Do a short term deal with them now, and later you can re-negotiate for payment once they are making money. I think it will be a great oppertunity for you, and you never know who you'd meet along the way and what contacts you could make.
Have fun!
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07/24/2007 02:27:54 AM · #20 |
Just make sure that you give them the impression that you're doing them a favour, not that you're needing to do it free because you're not good enough to get paid for it.
Make clear that they pay expenses. You're doing it free, not paying to do it.
I'd agree that you should probably give them a time limit, then take another look at the end of that time. If they're gaining some success then they should be willing to share some of that in the form of payment for your help in their success.
I think the main thing is to act professional so that they don't tend to dismiss you or take advantage of you.
And hurry up and be 19 so you don't hafta worry about the age thing! :P |
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07/24/2007 08:50:19 AM · #21 |
I would take a few other things into account. I will assume that you are interested in taking band photography and might at some point want to take it further.
First, there may be significant value in getting access to the band and venues: you will be able to create a portfolio that you will not otherwise be able to create.
Second, you are 16. I presume that there is someone else putting food on your table and a roof over your head. You don’t need the few $$ now in the same way that others might – use that to your advantage!
Third, there may be significant value in the shots. However, I would pay no interest to their current commercial value: for a couple of your hours and an unknown band, it will not be a huge amount. The potential value in your shots arises if the band makes it in the future. The important thing is not to get a few $$ for your time now, but to ensure that you keep all rights to the photos for the future, just in case.
If I were you, I would do the gig on the basis of costs plus transport (maybe even just transport), but ensure that you get the band to sign a bit of paper agreeing that you own the shots and that you will license the images to the band for specific uses. Do not provide the band with a CD full of pics, but put them on a site and let them ask you for specific images for specific purposes, which you deliver on a case by case basis (and if you wish, at the start, for a zero or nominal licensing fee). If the band makes it, then maintain the relationship, take their pics more and more, and start charging their label some big bucks to license individual images. You then have some property that will give you a continued income.
I don̢۪t think that you can/should treat this kind of stuff like a wedding.
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07/24/2007 09:00:06 AM · #22 |
If you enjoy doing it and they are your friends, why not? You'll have a good time and get exposure. make sure they understand that you own the photos and only give them permission to use them though. Then when they make it big you can make a fortune off selling their old concert photos.
If it's just about getting paid, charge them. But I'd guess they'll look for and find someone that will do it for free.
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07/24/2007 09:14:04 AM · #23 |
I've sort of become the unofficial photographer for the local fire department (the empty house that was next to us was their practice site), and i gave them a CD of the many pics i've shot of them. they've always been very helpful, and haven't minded me dashing about while they work. i included the following text on and with the cd, in every format i could think of.
basically, the images are mine, but they can use them.
hope this helps. good luck!
 . 
Christian Stalley Photographic Studio
Photographs of the Chester Volunteer Fire Department
The Photographic contents of this CD remain the property of the artist, Christian Stalley.
The Chester Volunteer Fire Department (CVFD) is licensed to use any and all images contained herein for promotional and fundraising uses only – i.e. web site, calendars, advertising, greeting cards and community awareness etcetera.
Members, and only members, of the CVFD are licensed to use the images for personal use if it does not involve printing the images at commercial printers – i.e. computer desktops, screensavers etcetera.
Prints will be provided to Members of the CVFD at cost plus 10% (to cover postage or driving costs).
The CVFD is required to include the artist̢۪s signature on each image, or an artist̢۪s credit where cropping images is unavoidable or the reproduction size is small enough to render the signature illegible.
For any further information, please contact me at the following:
xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx@XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
//cspstudio.smugmug.com/
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07/24/2007 09:35:17 AM · #24 |
I personally do any bands im friends with work for free, based on the understanding that I get the photo credit, they dont tell anyone else I did it for free, and I get a few copies of whatever its used for (cds, tshirts, flyers, whatever.) Its another situation that I look at as an investment.
A good amount of my friends bands are getting signed to labels and their albums are getting a really huge distribution, so if I can have my name somewhere on that album, thats great.
For example, a friends band just put out their cd, I shot the cover image and the insert and they gave me a credit with my webiste listed. Win Win situation.
Message edited by author 2007-07-24 09:36:45. |
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07/24/2007 10:48:32 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
I would take a few other things into account. I will assume that you are interested in taking band photography and might at some point want to take it further.
First, there may be significant value in getting access to the band and venues: you will be able to create a portfolio that you will not otherwise be able to create.
Second, you are 16. I presume that there is someone else putting food on your table and a roof over your head. You don’t need the few $$ now in the same way that others might – use that to your advantage!
Third, there may be significant value in the shots. However, I would pay no interest to their current commercial value: for a couple of your hours and an unknown band, it will not be a huge amount. The potential value in your shots arises if the band makes it in the future. The important thing is not to get a few $$ for your time now, but to ensure that you keep all rights to the photos for the future, just in case.
If I were you, I would do the gig on the basis of costs plus transport (maybe even just transport), but ensure that you get the band to sign a bit of paper agreeing that you own the shots and that you will license the images to the band for specific uses. Do not provide the band with a CD full of pics, but put them on a site and let them ask you for specific images for specific purposes, which you deliver on a case by case basis (and if you wish, at the start, for a zero or nominal licensing fee). If the band makes it, then maintain the relationship, take their pics more and more, and start charging their label some big bucks to license individual images. You then have some property that will give you a continued income.
I don̢۪t think that you can/should treat this kind of stuff like a wedding. |
yeahh,i am 17 now too :P
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