Newbie with EOS-10D -- Problems?

08/07/2003 01:20:59 PM · #76

I purchased it at Best Buy. They aren't likely to know much...and if they determine it is not a problem (even if there is), I have to pay a 15% return fee.

Renee

Originally posted by Gordon:

Might it not make more sense to ask the camera shop ? Or at least ask them to explain to you how to use it ?

Message edited by author 2003-08-07 13:22:51.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

08/07/2003 02:41:38 PM · #77

Just curious Magnetic, why you think these would be better? Does the AutoFocus work better?

Renee

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

Fuji S2

Used Canon D60

Used Canon D30

Nikon D100.

P.S. Don't mind paganini. He's a smart guy but a little short on social skills :).

paganini

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

08/07/2003 02:58:07 PM · #78

You're assuming what you get on the 10D was because the autofocus sucked and beecause it's the camera's fault.

I don't think you will find that either S2 or D100 focuses any better.

They are all very similar in operation, etc. If you're having problem with one of them, you're probably going to have problems on ALL of them (assuming it's true that you didn't get a lemon 10D).

Originally posted by Resiemor:

Just curious Magnetic, why you think these would be better? Does the AutoFocus work better?

Renee

Originally posted by magnetic9999:
Fuji S2

Used Canon D60

Used Canon D30

Nikon D100.

P.S. Don't mind paganini. He's a smart guy but a little short on social skills :).

magnetic9999

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

08/07/2003 03:15:24 PM · #79

That's the caveat. "Lemon 10D" .. At least those other cameras never had quite as big of a buzz about "focus problems."

Honestly, I would recommend something like a Sony f717 .. Alot more affordable, meets all the criteria you mentioned below (minus the optical VF), and known to have OUTSTANDING controllability and image quality.

Also, those other cameras (the SLR's) tend to require more post-processing out of the camera in your computer - they do a minimal amount in camera. If you're not comfortable with that you might think their images were 'dull' and 'soft'. I happen to use a Fuji S1 in my job, and the out of camera images always look terrible compared to what they eventually become, after curves, levels and sharpening.

P.S. I love my 10D, but I would only recommend it as a learning camera to a person who was willing to go whole hog with the learning process, including all the post-processing.

Message edited by author 2003-08-07 15:16:20.

magnetic9999

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

08/07/2003 03:17:26 PM · #80

Less expensive now. Differences in operation. D30 is fewer pixels.

Main reason I mentioned those is alot of people who feel like they got dud 10D's went back to those cameras and are happier.

Originally posted by Resiemor:

How are the Canon D60 and D30 different from the 10D?

Thanks for your help.
Ren

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

08/07/2003 03:44:41 PM · #81

Paganini -- I am not saying that the Canon 10D is a horrible camera. Not at all. I am also not saying that my camera is a lemon. The potential exists that it *could be* -- fair enough -- and I don't want to risk keeping it if it is. It's not worth a $2,000 headache or for me to gamble on it. For that money, I want to be sure and I will try a second unit for peace of mind.

I know the camera itself is a great camera -- the shots I see from it on DPC are exceptional -- hands down. So, I know it is a great piece of machinery -- without question.

Magnetic -- I do like the F717 but I hate the viewfinder. I simply hate it. Plus your attachments are limited. The photo quality is exceptional though. I have admired many photos from that camera on DPC.

I suspected that I would have to do a lot of post-manipulation of photos and I was prepared to do it -- if need be. That's not a worry (I am skilled at doing that and can learn quickly where I am deficient) and I was willing to learn with the 10D. However, I still have questions and I am not willing to risk my money over those questions.

The other models you recommended seem very close to the 10D and just as pricey -- except used models. I'll consider them if I decide to investigate further.

Thanks again,
Lemonhead or lemon -- that's the question we all debate about LOL,
Renee

jimmythefish

Canon EOS-10D

08/07/2003 03:46:34 PM · #82

I was thinking the same thing...the F717's lens is so sharp it hurts. If you're after deep DOF, high sharpness, don't like post-processing (images are fairly acceptable straight out of camera) and plan on using it in a fairly normal (38-190mm) zoom range, you can't go wrong with the F717. With the money you save you can get oodles of memory sticks.

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

08/07/2003 04:40:28 PM · #83

Jim,

Your photos are stunning. I do like crisp photos. I really do. I think I would love that camera except for the EVF. Doesn't it make it hard to see the correct colors, and to focus clearly?

Furthermore, aren't you limited by the attachments (I am pretty certain you are).

Thanks for the suggestion,
Renee

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

08/07/2003 04:44:59 PM · #84

Can I recommend the book

How to Take Good Pictures: A Photo Guide by Kodak no matter which camera you get. It is relatively cheap and has great advice on all the basics of how to use a camera. It was the recommended text on the advanced photography class I did at a local university and had a lot of good info.

No matter which camera you get, if you go for one that has manual controls, this will help you get up and running much more quickly.

Kavey

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

08/07/2003 04:47:16 PM · #85

Originally posted by Resiemor:

Lemonhead or lemon -- that's the question we all debate about LOL
Renee

Renee I won't step into the real content of the thread - you've had some excellent advice - particularly from Gordon and Mag who I've found never steer me wrong.

But I wanted to comment on how refreshing I find your humour and your willingness to open yourself up like this in order to learn and move forward.

GOOD LUCK with whichever camera you end up with!

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

08/07/2003 05:07:08 PM · #86

Thanks Kavey!

And thanks for Gordon. I will take you up on the book recommendation if I get a more manual camera which is my aim.

Right now I am just a little shy after all the ha-doo I put everyone including myself through : )

Renee

paganini

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

08/07/2003 05:10:08 PM · #87

That's also because the other cameras didn't have 30,000 new camera users per month, that Canon 10D attracted (Canon announced they are shipping 30,000 10D per month and production is hard to keep up) Most of the focus issues came from people who doesn't know about how autofocus works for digital SLR (because they moved up from digicam), or, from people from the film world that thought the soft image was due to focus issue, rather than post processing sharpening.

Here's some 10D stats:

1. DOF for autofocus. Autofocus for 10D can only get as accurate as +/-1 DOF of the maximum open aperature at that given focal length and focus distance. Thus, a 70-200mm F4 at 70mm will have a focus accuracy of +/-4 feet when you focus it at 20 feet, at ANY aperature (autofocus sytem can only see at the maximum aperature). If you want better accuracy, 1D or 1Ds would do (they are 1/3 DOF, rather than 1 DOF). A lot of people have problem understanding this and end up complaining why their 24-70mm lens they paid dearly for works not so well at 24 mm (where DOF at wide open is still pretty LARGE, and also the focus error).

2. Autofocus sensors. They are actually BIGGER than the boxes you see on the view finder. Here's the layout: //www.pbase.com/image/18920257 This means that the autofocus can easily latch on to places where the contrast is greater than the area within the center box, for example. This is the stuff you can't find in manuals and Canon's Director of Technology in the US provided it after so much complaint on the web.

3. There are probably some 10D's that have issues, particularly on the first batch (ones sold in March/April). Hence, when someone sees autofocus problem, they just assume that their camera is malfunctioning, rather than understanding #1 and #2.

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

That's the caveat. "Lemon 10D" .. At least those other cameras never had quite as big of a buzz about "focus problems."

P.S. I love my 10D, but I would only recommend it as a learning camera to a person who was willing to go whole hog with the learning process, including all the post-processing.

magnetic9999

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

08/07/2003 05:41:36 PM · #88

all. true. more reason to be careful if you lack experience.

Originally posted by paganini:

08/07/2003 07:34:04 PM · #89

BEST BUY SUCKS!!!

I am so pissed off. My husband drove an hour to return this camera. The sales guy took a photo under super strong lights in the store, downloaded it, and it still came out blurry and he told my husband to "change the resolution" (mind you it was set to fine, 6.3MP!) if he didn't like it. They weren't taking the camera back unless we wanted to pay a 15% restocking fee. My husband said the photo sucked and they told him to take it back minus 15%, exchange it or get out -- OR THEY'D call the police. My husband is a very professional guy who doesn't cross boundaries.

Their return policy is a full refund if the product is defective and they aren't honoring it.

I am livid right now. Anyone wanting to buy something at Best Buy -- don't do it. Circuit City honors their products...go there.

Finally the store manager said he will have a "professional photographer" look at it next week -- after about 10 calls to different people at corporate and the chain. Damn bastards.

Renee

Message edited by author 2003-08-08 12:51:42.

08/10/2003 12:59:26 PM · #90

This morning I decided to call another store. I explained the whole situation to them since corporate didn't give a damn.

This manager listened me out, agreed that I was not treated appropriately -- as the exchange didn't make sense if the camera was NOT defective -- and agreed to help me.

Within 5 minutes, the manager that was so nasty to me at the other store called me back and apologized that I had not heard from his store. He told me someone was supposed to call me on Friday -- but obviously they didn't (speaks volumes of the management and customer service -- doesn't it?)

Anyhow, the manager said that he would take the camera back "because he sold the unit I returned" for a full-refund. Essentially -- since he got his money back, he is willing to take back my exchanged one since I didn't use it. The manager was supposedly going to get a "professional photographer" in the store to look at my model. I was hoping to talk to him -- but obviously he didn't bother. He just put it back on the shelf.

Besides horrible customer service, and being treated horribly when we acted respectable at all times -- what really pisses me off is the fact that when I asked to see the photos I "test shot" in the store on a computer before I made the purchase -- they told me they couldn't do it. But when I returned it with problems, it didn't take them 2 seconds to connect it up and test it. Even in the store with bright lights, the photos were not clear.

The end result: When it is to Best Buy's advantage, they'll do whatever it takes. When it comes to the customer -- they won't do cr@p!

Not a place I plan on doing business with again. Tomorrow I am off to return the second unopened beast since the manager agreed to accept it for a full-refund. Good riddence! I don't want a new camera anymore and if I change my mind I am going to a camera shop (though my camera shop experiences in Wisconsin have been no better customer service wise, I have to say).

Thanks again for all those who helped me. I am unsure what my next move will be...

Renee

Nazgul

08/10/2003 01:39:18 PM · #91

what kind of lens to you have?
did you use the same lens on both units?

08/10/2003 05:30:37 PM · #92

I didn't try the second unit out because I wanted to return it. I don't trust Best Buy at all. According to people in this thread, I had a horrible lens and I don't doubt them. I had a 28-105 f4.6-8 I believe. I had the cheapest one by Canon -- I'm confident about that.

Jacko

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

08/10/2003 07:59:29 PM · #93

RenÃ©e ... I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with you 10D ... and Best Buy. I've had mine for 3 months and totally love it.

vjoz

Canon EOS-10D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/10/2003 08:29:40 PM · #94

Yeah, too bad... I love mine...