Newbie with EOS-10D -- Problems?

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

08/06/2003 05:31:07 PM · #51

If that's the case and he aims his focus point at the eye, then the camera is back focusing.

Short than a careful ruler test, nothing more we can say about this because we don't know what point he is using for his focus. AUTO mode will focus on whatever the camera thinks is the focus point, which makes it not reliable to use.

But then again, 10D's autofocus system is designed to have an accuracy of +/- 1 DOF of the max aperature. Want something more accurate, buy a 1D (which is +/- 1/3 of DOF of max aperature of hte lens). For exdample, a 50mm F1.8 lens will have an accuracy that is equivalent to the DOF at wide open (no matter what F number you use). So if you shoot wide open, you can easily miss it.

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

regarding the sunlight. this is normal -

secondly, your indoor shoots are shot on maximum aperture. I can see that part of each of those shots is in focus but at max aper, your depth of focus area is really really thin. everything outside of that will be out of focus. this is something that can be used creatively in photography AS LONG AS YOU ARE GETTING FOCUS ON THE EXACT SPOT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN. on your dog, it looks like his ears are in focus. if you used a bigger f number (smaller aperture), more of him would be in focus but since your aper is closing down , your shutter speed will get even slower, making it harder to avoid camera shake.

i seriously think camera shake and small depth of focus are your main problems. and this is an experience thing.

magnetic9999

Canon EOS-20D

08/06/2003 05:52:40 PM · #52

well i agree with you, but there's only so much you can explain to someone over the web at any one time, especially someone that's a complete novice. Honestly, short of trying her camera myself, i can't really know if it's busted or if it's lack of experience/technique.

Originally posted by paganini:

08/06/2003 05:59:16 PM · #53

Some more thoughts:

1 of 2 things is wrong, either it is the camera or it is how you are using it.

To help establish if it is you or the camera:

Try using the camera at the wide angle end. This reduces the constraints on shutter speed. Take some shots without zooming in at all, in good light. (nb - good light is a lot brighter than from a 60W bulb indoors)
Make sure it is _not_ in AI Servo AF or AI Focus AF mode

Point the camera at something with a lot of contrast (not something reflective, or a single colour - something with texture and contrast - a rug, or a painting or similar) Have the camera on some sort of stable base - a tripod if you have it, or a table at least. Make sure it has focused on the subject (using the focus lock/ half shutter press until
the red square goes solid) and _use_the_timer to take the shot. Otherwise you cannot tell if it is the person taking the picture causing the problem or not.

If you can get sharp pictures, in bright light, on a contrasty subject, without hand-holding the camera and ensuring it has focused, then it is most likely just things you have to learn, rather than the camera being broken.

Message edited by author 2003-08-06 18:00:34.

08/06/2003 06:26:24 PM · #54

Gordon, I have the battery charging. As soon as it is done, I will try your test again. So far that test failed repeatedly. I did do it outside without zooming and it failed over and over again at 5 p.m. yesterday in the afternoon with sun.

I took the camera inside a dark bathroom with no windows just a little while ago -- get this -- turned off the flash and took a photo of myself in the mirror -- and it came out clear. I only had three 40 watt bulbs on over head -- small candle bulbs -- which I would consider less than optimal light.

I think it is leading me to believe this is a lemon. It is not consistent. How come it would focus in such low light out of the blue after two days of trying?

I am going to do more testing -- waiting for the battery.

THANKS AGAIN TO ALL,
Going loopy!
Renee

08/06/2003 06:33:53 PM · #55

Originally posted by Resiemor:

I must have missed something then - you posted earlier saying you didn't try using the timer and the sample was pointed at a bit of glass and the exif said it was at the telephoto end. Sorry for the confusion.

08/06/2003 06:36:55 PM · #56

Originally posted by Resiemor:

I took the camera inside a dark bathroom with no windows just a little while ago -- get this -- turned off the flash and took a photo of myself in the mirror -- and it came out clear. I only had three 40 watt bulbs on over head -- small candle bulbs -- which I would consider less than optimal light.

Are you still using the Auto focus AI mode ? I'd switch it off and never use it again. Continuous focusing is good for situations like sports, but terrible for most normal usage.

Also, it helps to understand that the focus system works on contrasts. If you point it at something that is all the same colour, or that has very little contrast (a white shirt, a bit of glass) you'll not get good focus. Contrast focusing works best if you point it at something that has a change in brightness - e.g., a page of text in a book or the edge of something black on a white background etc.

08/06/2003 06:42:22 PM · #57

I'm going crazy. Every single shot is suddenly working. They are coming out clear...albeit the odd one. Even in lower light.

Huhhhhh...sigh...It's great to see this frick'n thing work but it has put me through hell. I don't know what kicked it into gear!

I'm happy but pissed. Maybe I should exchange it so I am not stuck if this demon returns...

Thank YOU ALL. I wish I knew what happened. I'm holding my breathe...finally.

Maybe there is hope for me after all...
Renee

08/06/2003 06:43:59 PM · #58

Originally posted by Resiemor:

Can you post some of the working samples with exif ? Perhaps we can point out what has changed ? :)

08/06/2003 07:03:47 PM · #59

NO NO NO.

you're missing the whole thing.

The meter will adjust ANY LIGHT to middle gray. Of course it will look like a bright room, because you didn't adjust the exposure.

ANY CAMERA will not be smart enough to tell between dark room and bright room, it will simply calculate the exposure to middle gray.

Originally posted by Resiemor:

08/06/2003 07:05:36 PM · #60

Okay...here you go. Maybe they aren't so clear and I am tired : ) Now the Zoom Browser software is giving out on me and won't open the files so I can see them at 100%. I'm sorry.

Here is what I thought was clear. Now I am second guessing myself.

Watermelon stuffed toy
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=32315

File Name
101_0171.JPG
Camera Model Name
Canon EOS 10D
Shooting Date/Time
1/2/00 5:30:48 PM
Shooting Mode
Program AE
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/60
Av( Aperture Value )
5.6
Metering Mode
Center-weighted averaging
Exposure Compensation
0
ISO Speed
100
Lens
28.0 - 105.0mm
Focal Length
36.0mm
Image Size
3072x2048
Image Quality
Fine
Flash
On
Flash Type
Built-In Flash
Flash Exposure Compensation
0
Red-eye Reduction
Off
Shutter curtain sync
1st-curtain sync
White Balance
Auto
AF Mode
One-Shot AF
Parameters
Contrast Normal
Sharpness Normal
Color saturation Normal
Color tone Normal
Color Space
sRGB
File Size
2118KB

Drive Mode
Single-frame shooting

Looking out my window:
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=32313
File Name
101_0167.JPG
Camera Model Name
Canon EOS 10D
Shooting Date/Time
1/2/00 5:32:49 PM
Shooting Mode
Auto
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/180
Av( Aperture Value )
8.0
Metering Mode
Evaluative
Exposure Compensation
0
ISO Speed
100
Lens
28.0 - 105.0mm
Focal Length
62.0mm
Image Size
2048x3072
Image Quality
Fine
Flash
Off
White Balance
Auto
AF Mode
AI Focus AF
Parameters
Contrast Normal
Sharpness Normal
Color saturation Normal
Color tone Normal
Color Space
sRGB
File Size
2603KB
Drive Mode
Single-frame shooting
Owner's Name
Camera Body No.
0620311704

Me in the bathroom (rated G):
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=32314

File Name
101_0158.JPG
Camera Model Name
Canon EOS 10D
Shooting Date/Time
1/2/00 4:22:25 PM
Shooting Mode
Flash Off(Never fires.)
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/20
Av( Aperture Value )
4.0
Metering Mode
Evaluative
Exposure Compensation
0
ISO Speed
400
Lens
28.0 - 105.0mm
Focal Length
33.0mm
Image Size
3072x2048
Image Quality
Fine
Flash
Off
White Balance
Auto
AF Mode
AI Focus AF

Message edited by author 2003-08-06 19:08:28.

08/06/2003 07:09:16 PM · #61

One shot AF is definately the way to go. I noticed you've changed that for this shot at least. I very rarely use anything other than One Shot AF with my D60 (unless it was sports shooting). Burst mode is another that should be avoided if you want sharp, in focus pictures in a reliable fashion.

The subject has lots of contrasty texture, again a good subject choice and one the camera could lock on to.

Looks like the camera works okay, you just need to learn a wee bit more about how to handle it.

The out of the window one is okay - enough light and a high enough shutter speed. Notice that the window bars are still out of focus (which you'd expect)

the bathroom shot I hope doesn't represent how you hold the camera for all of these tests :) If it is, it probably explains a lot of the problems - you really need to get your non-shutter pressing hand out and under the lens to support it. Good technique is crucial to getting sharp pictures with an SLR. point and shoots will let you away with much worse technique than an SLR will forgive.

Message edited by author 2003-08-06 19:14:34.

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

08/06/2003 07:23:17 PM · #62

Good catch on me holding the camera wrong. My husband told me the correct way to hold it and I am getting much, much better at it. I know I should support the lens with the non-shutter hand. I usually do but it is a bad habit to break.

Something changed with the camera though. It got a lot clearer, I swear and I didn't change anything on my end that much.

I'm pooped so I'll have to give it some thought when I have a clear mind.

Thanks again,
Renee

magnetic9999

Canon EOS-20D

08/06/2003 09:19:09 PM · #63

musta been the reset

vjoz

Canon EOS-10D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/07/2003 05:55:44 AM · #64

Well, I don't know much about those focusing matter on the 10D ...

I've never had any problems with mine... - here are something I found surfing...

//www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005YyV

maybe you could do a docus test?:
//www.photo.net/learn/focustest/

v.

08/07/2003 10:45:37 AM · #65

Hi All,

I thought I would update you. I decided to return the camera within the allowable time. I am not confident this baby doesn't have a problem. I cannot use AF EVER, period. It doesn't work. The clear shot I got was with the one shot setup in P. The AF photo are not clean like that one is. In the window photo, there is some weird thing going on in the window that looks like the window is all smudged. It is clean as can be. In the bathroom, I am not clear either. There is a hint of clear by the camera lens, but that is all.

I find this unit is unacceptable. Now, I have to decide if I will try it again.

THANK YOU all truly for your incredible support, help, time and encouragement. I feel lucky I have a team of great minds to tap into when I need the help. I hope I can return the favor to others -- in people here in other ways.

Best,
Renee

Great links by the way! I wish I still had the camera.

Message edited by author 2003-08-07 10:46:38.

08/07/2003 11:09:30 AM · #66

Unless you unhooked the AF button, in P mode it is still using autofocus! The autofocus problem will occur in any mode you use.

If you're going to use the camera only in AUTO mode, you should've stick with consumer digicams.

Originally posted by Resiemor:

08/07/2003 11:18:53 AM · #67

Originally posted by paganini:

Right up the very top, she stated that she was going to use auto until she learned some more. Not an unreasonable starting point and the camera should do fine in Auto and P mode with some care on how the focus is used, how the camera is held and what exposure settings are picked by the camera. Auto and P mode work fine on the D60 to just take snapshots - I'm sure the 10D should be able to squeeze out an in focus picture in decent light in auto modes, as long as the camera is set up right.

Perhaps you could ask the camera shop to check it over and show you how to use it, hold it and take a picture ?

08/07/2003 11:33:12 AM · #68

Problem with AUTO is that you really dont' know what the camera uses until it takes the photo. This is also quite problematic in flash mode, where if your focal length is greater than 60 mm, you'll get camera shakes, whereas the consumer digicams focal length is always smaller than 60 mm and won't have a problem.

Besides, if her problem is autofocus, then it's really easy to test with a tripod and a ruler. But this is probably just the case that "it must be the camera's fault" mentality.

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by paganini:
Unless you unhooked the AF button, in P mode it is still using autofocus! The autofocus problem will occur in any mode you use.

If you're going to use the camera only in AUTO mode, you should've stick with consumer digicams.

Right up the very top, she stated that she was going to use auto until she learned some more. Not an unreasonable starting point and the camera should do fine in Auto and P mode with some care on how the focus is used, how the camera is held and what exposure settings are picked by the camera. Auto and P mode work fine on the D60 to just take snapshots - I'm sure the 10D should be able to squeeze out an in focus picture in decent light in auto modes, as long as the camera is set up right.

Perhaps you could ask the camera shop to check it over and show you how to use it, hold it and take a picture ?

08/07/2003 11:43:21 AM · #69

Originally posted by paganini:

Besides, if her problem is autofocus, then it's really easy to test with a tripod and a ruler. But this is probably just the case that "it must be the camera's fault" mentality.

I think we need a photographic equivalent of godwin's law. When ever the rulers get brought out, all sense has left the building.

08/07/2003 11:44:47 AM · #70

Rather us arguing about it, she should just run the ruler test :) it's simple. But most people just blames all the faults on the camera.

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by paganini:

Besides, if her problem is autofocus, then it's really easy to test with a tripod and a ruler. But this is probably just the case that "it must be the camera's fault" mentality.

I think we need a photographic equivalent of godwin's law. When ever the rulers get brought out, all sense has left the building.

08/07/2003 12:44:50 PM · #71

Hey, Hey (wink, wink)...

I am absolutely a novice at SLR cameras. I could absolutely be the problem here, or I could have a faulty camera. It's a toss up.

My husband has the camera today to return it so I can't test it with the ruler test. I wish I would have because it would be a relief to know I am not a total dork LOL!

In either case, knowing that this camera and accessories topped over $2,000 -- I don't care to take a risk and keep this unit. I suspect there are problems and the EOS-10D has been known to have problems. That's a big hint for me to return it. I don't want to be stuck with a lemon.

I may purchase another unit and try it again. Then I will have a conclusive answer and hopefully a unit that will be dependable. If I have the same problem, I will be 100% certain it is operator error.

Again, I appreciate all your insight and help -- and can respect a newbie to SLR cameras can raise kane with them by not having a clue. If only I knew...

I'll keep you all posted.
Renee

08/07/2003 12:59:18 PM · #72

Originally posted by Resiemor:

Might it not make more sense to ask the camera shop ? Or at least ask them to explain to you how to use it ?

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

08/07/2003 01:02:50 PM · #73

One thought. Here is what I am looking for...anything out there that fits this:

4-6 MP
Good Auto Mode for point and shoot
TTL optical viewfinder (don't like EVF)
Good color (Kodak is superior here - DiMage was very dark and off)
Fast Shutter (little lag)
- 10D was great
- Nikon Coolpix 5700 sucked as a comparison
Ability to add quality attachments for varying wide angle, telephoto,
close-ups, etc

Recommendations? I am not flexible on those elements... Personally I don't think there is a camera like this. I'd like to find a model that will let me grow into it. I don't like the limitations of point and shoot anymore...

Best,
Renee

Message edited by author 2003-08-07 13:03:56.

magnetic9999

Canon EOS-20D

08/07/2003 01:08:02 PM · #74

Fuji S2

Used Canon D60

Used Canon D30

Nikon D100.

P.S. Don't mind paganini. He's a smart guy but a little short on social skills :).

Message edited by author 2003-08-07 13:08:33.