Score 5.99 or lower and want a critique? 05/29/07

Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG OS HSM | C

05/29/2007 09:25:24 PM · #26

Originally posted by BHuseman:

I always look forward to these threads...

Maybe not this time around. :(

Positives:
Perspective and moment of capture are fantastic and are the strengths of this composition.

Technicals:
Black and white tones and contrast are good. Sharpness borders on being overdone and might just barely cross the border in the area surrounding the club head.

The brightness and color of the ball is overexaggerated for selective desat and has an unnatural look about it. That is not good given it is the main subject.

The Challenge:
Yup, meets the challenge. Voters get the idea about keeping your eye on the ball and it is a nice clean hit but the technical implementation of the desat detracted greatly from the composition. Unfortunately the overdone yellow color and unrealistic color border hurt it a lot in voting. Other than that is is very nicely done. I scored this a three because of the very gawdy color on the ball.

Suggestions:
As would be true in many of the submissions backoff on the overall color saturation and it would have made for a better selective desaturation entry. Also consider reducing the sharpness of the grasses surrounding club a little.

BHuseman

Nikon D750

05/29/2007 09:32:56 PM · #27

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by BHuseman:
I always look forward to these threads...

Maybe not this time around. :(

Positives:
Perspective and moment of capture are fantastic and are the strengths of this composition.

Technicals:
Black and white tones and contrast are good. Sharpness borders on being overdone and might just barely cross the border in the area surrounding the club head.

The brightness and color of the ball is overexaggerated for selective desat and has an unnatural look about it. That is not good given it is the main subject.

The Challenge:
Yup, meets the challenge. Voters get the idea about keeping your eye on the ball and it is a nice clean hit but the technical implementation of the desat detracted greatly from the composition. Unfortunately the overdone yellow color and unrealistic color border hurt it a lot in voting. Other than that is is very nicely done. I scored this a three because of the very gawdy color on the ball.

Suggestions:
As would be true in many of the submissions backoff on the overall color saturation and it would have made for a better selective desaturation entry. Also consider reducing the sharpness of the grasses surrounding club a little.

Thank you for the critique, I appreciate the in depth look on my image. Interestingly enough, the picture was not saturated at all. The ball being used is a high-vis ball that I shoot with on twilight rounds. I chose it for the shot because I needed the color. Little did I know that would be the downfall....

tjbel05

Nikon Z9

Nikon NIKKOR Z 70-200mm f/2.8 VR S

05/29/2007 09:41:08 PM · #28

Wow, I have never had a critique from you before. I really liked this subject, as it was unique. I'm thinking a shallower*(sp) DOF might have aided its score, but what else did I miss? (I hope Im not too late)

Message edited by author 2007-05-29 21:41:51.

lunachicken

Nikon D90

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8

05/29/2007 09:48:27 PM · #29

If you can find the time one on mine would be much appreciated.

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

05/29/2007 10:51:05 PM · #30

Originally posted by vikas:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by vikas:
... edited, sorry didn't realize this was for selective desaturation!

This critique discussion has nothing to do with selective desaturation. If you have an image from another challenge that is OK.

Not that this picture did bad, but I was expecting it to do better. I don't understand what I did wrong! Would love a critique on this one. Thank you :)

I expect all my images to do better, but they rarely do. LOL!!!!

Positives:
Racket ball is a very fast game and hard to capture. You did a great job with this capture. Very well composed and captured sports image with good technicals.

Technicals:
What is most amazing about this image is that you could get such great clarity and good stop action at f/4.2 in a 1/60th of a second exposure.

Sharpness, color and exposure are all very good. Composition is excellent.

The vertical corner of the wall behind your racket ball model is a significant distraction. There are a couple cracks or something in those walls as well behind the player that cause minor distractions.

The Challenge:
Obviously meets the Sports II challenge and not only that it is just one fine capture.

You finished over .4 above the challenge average and almost .6 above the overall DPC average. Voters thought this image good but not a top level performer.

Voters were probably bothered by the vertical corner of wall behind the player. Other than that there is nothing wrong with this image. I wasn't bothered by that line so scored it "10" myself. I still like it and don't see any reason to change my score.

Suggestions:
In basic you can't do this but clone out the vertical corner and other two lines near the player's head and you may find the image even more appealing than it already is.

This would make a great stock image. Some folks might think looking like stock is a bad thing. I'm not one of them.

hihosilver

Nikon D200

05/29/2007 11:10:40 PM · #31

Steve, Dear...although I did not post my most humiliating "brown" photo here for your critique as I originally wanted to, I wanted to thank you so much for the wealth of knowledge you share and how you so elegantly "trash" my already well-crumpled photo in a way that makes me adore you even more. As a guiding light, you have no peer. -M

Panasonic DMW-LTZ10 1.5x Teleconverter

05/29/2007 11:26:59 PM · #32

Originally posted by stevieian:

Positives:
Pose, capture and lighting angle are the strengths of this composition.

Technicals:
Color is fine. Lighting angle is good but the right side of the face is a little overexposed and flat looking. Use of noise reduction is good for producing a soft look but may be overdone.

Its a small thing but the wrinkles in your model's shirt is a slight distraction.

The Challenge:
Meets the challenge for a color portrait and scored almost right at the average for the challenge. Voters felt this was an average portrait. Probably the two things that held it down in scoring is the overexposure of the face and the slight overuse of noise reduction.

Suggestions:
The most noticeable oversmoothing is on the leather couch or chair he is sitting in. One thing you might try is to apply noise reduction on a separate duplicate data layer then add a mask to that duplicate layer and paint out the the oversmoothing in the chair. That way you retain the smoothing of the face without getting unnatural smoothing in the chair. It is the best of both worlds. :)

You can try this and I don't guarantee it will work but you can add a 50% greyscale layer and then burn in the right side of his face to bring back more detail if it is there. There are other things you can do with the original that would also retain detail in her face assuming it was in the original and just lost in post processing.

Remember to get clothes properly placed when doing portraits. That is worth checking once, twice and three times after each pose change. :)

Message edited by author 2007-05-30 13:25:22.

dcb300

Panasonic DMC-FZ50

05/30/2007 08:08:01 AM · #33

Hi Steve,
If you are doing critiques on the shapes challenge, I would like to hear what you have to say about my entry.
I learn so much from your critiques.
Thanks,
Diane

vikas

Apple iPhone 13

Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G

05/30/2007 10:40:40 AM · #34

Thanks Steve for the critique on my picture, your explanation helps a lot :)

Efergoh

Sony DSLR-A100

Konica Minolta AF 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6(D) DT

05/30/2007 12:28:39 PM · #35

I expected this one to do a tad better than it did...would appreciate an honest crit.

05/30/2007 12:49:05 PM · #36

You guys are really trying to make me work... aren't you? Wellll... you are succeeding. LOL!!!

I will get to these as I can. :)

05/30/2007 01:12:43 PM · #37

Originally posted by Jewelly:

...

Positives:
Touching capture of a little girl in dreamland with a proper selective desaturation choice to emphasis her imaginative play.

Technicals:
Overall technicals are good. Depth of field, sharpness, composition and lighting are all good. It shows none of the usual digital artifacts we are used to seeing in submissions. You handled the color boundary well for this image.

The blue bow on top of her head, though supporting the theme, acts more distractive than not.

The Challenge:
129th out of 554 is a good placing in such a large challenge. You were .4 above the challenge average. Voters like this image but feel it is not top tier. The image cannot be faulted for technical quality so "wow" factor probably played a roll in a lower score. Many voters were probably jaded to selective desaturation by the time they voted on this one.

Unsure, but some voters might have thought having your model on a wall was not a good idea.

Suggestions:
You might try desaturating the top bow to eliminate that as a distraction. The wings support the main theme well already.

Consider some serious dodge and burn on the girl herself, possibly using a "vivid light" brush, to give her more "depth" and draw more attention to her. Lightening her hair and locally increasing the contrast on her dress would look nice.

Another thing you might consider to support a dreamlike theme would be an offset vignette centered on the girl.

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

05/30/2007 02:22:47 PM · #38

Originally posted by kellyrc01:

Positives:
A decent floral desat in a soft focus mode with a supportive black and white background.

Technicals:
The black and white treatment has good tones and full range from pure black to pure white without under or over exposed areas. The color boundary to the B&W is well done. Nice idea to put a red flower with white ones... makes the desat part a lot easier to do.

Interesting this image is so softly focused given it is taken at f/20, perhaps this is because you were in macro mode or possibly camera motion suring the 1/60th second exposure. It has those spotty areas that look slightly out-of-focus which is incompatible with actual distance that we sometimes see with digital images. Not sure how that happens but think it is an artifact of digital image capture.

The red is a little too intense for the composition. Looks like you might have saturated it in post processing. The reddish refelction on the white flower below the red acts as a distraction.

The composition is on the weak side, kinda snapshot-like.

The Challenge:
It meets the challenge but most voters probably thought it a gratuitous floral image so voted it lower. Voters probably wanted to see a reason for the use of desat and did not find it in this composition. Others probably felt it lacked the ever popular "wow" factor so voted it lower for that as well. Some voters may have thought the reddish reflection off the white flower below the red one was color bleeding and marked it down as a technical error. All those reasons combined are probably why it scored below average.

I scored this image 6. That means I felt it was below average but not a "failure". I felt the image was OK but the red was to intense and the reddish reflection on the white flower was a distracting flaw. In my opinion your picture is not "bad". If it were I'd have given it an even lower score than the average DPCer did. I usually vote the "bad" pictures lower than other DPCers and the "good" ones higher.

Suggestions:
Here are some things you might try. Reduce the overall saturation of the red flower so it doesn't hit the viewer over the head then use selective color to darken just the blacks in the red flower to give it more contrast and definition. Clone out the red color from the white flower.

Another thing you might consider is cropping it differently to center the red flower at one of the rule of thirds(ROT) intersection points for greater visual impact. Cropping a lot from the left side to position the red flower centered on the upper left ROT intersection might look quite nice.

chip_k

Canon EOS-20D

05/30/2007 02:36:46 PM · #39

I'm game :) I really thought this one would do much better. It was in the "Hair" challenge...

kellyrc01

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II

05/30/2007 03:00:13 PM · #40

Thank you!!

05/30/2007 03:14:21 PM · #41

Originally posted by tjbel05:

I'm thinking a shallower*(sp) DOF might have aided its score, but what else did I miss?

Narrowing DOF when your lens is already wide open
It is tricky to narrow depth of field (DOF) when your lens is already wide open as it is in this picture. For this image there are only two ways to narrow DOF:

1-Zoom to the highest focal length your lens allows(70mm in your case).
2-Position yourself as close to your main subject as possible.

These two things are a bit incompatible with each other so you will have to make compromises to achieve your goal. Just keep this in mind...

DOF narrows the greater the focal length of the lens and it also narrows the closer you are to your subject.

End - Narrowing DOF when your lens is already wide open

You probably took this picture at the shorter focal length end of your lens settings and that is why it has wide DOF.

Positives:
Good selective desaturation concept and the tall framing works well.

Technicals:
You did a good job with the color boundaries, they look pretty natural and the colors don't appear oversaturated. You did well with black and white tonality. Sharpness is centered on the signs as it should be. (You'd be surprised how often we see images where that main subject is not properly focused)

The wire near the top of the sign is a distraction. The composition might be just a bit off with the positioning of the background tree.

The Challenge:
Duh! Meets the challenge all right. LOL!!! Does so with an appropriate use of selective desaturation to make a point.

Voters scored this smack dab in the middle of the road with a 5.4 score matching both the challenge average score given and DPC's overall average score given for all challenges.

Voters thought yours average for the challenge. I scored it a "7" which in my scheme of things means I think it is average as well. So in that regard I pretty much agree with the voters. For me, an image that meets the challenge and doesn't have any serious technical flaws will get an average score of "7" or it will get a higher score it does more than that. It is rare for me to find an image that flat out does not meet the challenge.

Suggestions:
Photography 101 - Always clone out distracting wires!

You can try some of the DOF suggestions I made above to see if you can achieve the effect you want.

Since you will have to re-take the picture to do that anyway then also try moving further to the right and recompose the shot. The reason for that is better placement of the background tree. Moving the sign more to the right of the tree will result in a better composition of image elements. Looks like you can position the sign right in front of the more distant branches to its immediate left so you still have the main part of the house unobstructed and the big tree will be further right.

Getting closer to the sign would be a good idea to and perhaps even necessary for shallower DOF.

Jewelly

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

05/30/2007 03:22:09 PM · #42

Thanks for the tips...
Very cool advice. I had never used the dodge tool before, or vivid light before. I used dodge on the dress and her hair. I desaturated the bow. I cannot ever seem to figure out how to add more contrast without making white look blown out, so I just added a small amount of contrast.
I have never done a vingnette, or I would have tried that too.
I'm going to print this one.

Here was my attempt at following you tips. Any better? The one on the left was the challenge entry, the right, my new one.

Message edited by author 2007-05-30 15:23:21.

05/30/2007 03:45:58 PM · #43

Originally posted by lunachicken:

I have a sneaking suspicion that you took pictures at every fullness level to see what looked best. Of course, you had to drink a little bit each time to change the level. Perhaps that testing required several glass refills. ;)

Positives:
No beer drinker could disagree with the choice of color left for this selective desaturation composition. It is a perfect metaphorical choice that gives the viewer something to think about, particularly with the empty chair.

Technicals:
Composition is fine. The black and white tones are well rounded.

The toughest thing in color desaturation is getting the color boundaries right. In this case you had some problems, the color border does not look natural and the color left at the top of the glass is more distracting than not. The whole upper part of the glass above the beer level is particularly unnatural looking. Part of that might have been due to the lighting but probably not much.

Some folks may have thought the line in the table in the foreground was a distraction as well.

The Challenge:
Meets the challenge in a more meaningful way than most of the challenge entries. Voters no doubt gave you credit for that. Its the technical flaws that hurt this image more than anything else and garnered it a below average score.

Suggestions:
Probably the easiest thing would be to desaturate the top of the glass. The color up there is not very good to begin with and getting rid of it would no doubt correct everything wrong with the top of the glass.

To get a color border right you first need to measure the pixel width of surrounding boders. Just count the number of pixels wide the borders are. You may have to go to a 300%-400% view to see the pixels. You will want to set brush feathering compatible with that width when doing the color boundary.

If you could somehow do something with color and hue changes to give the beer a nice golden head that would work GREAT, but I suspect that would be to difficult to get right and look natural.

OK... I'm done with this one... bottoms up, everyone!

05/30/2007 04:01:47 PM · #44

Originally posted by Jewelly:

Glad you tried out some new stuff. You'll be a pro before you know it!

When trying out these things it is OK to go hog wild with your changes until you get a feeling for what works best for you. I normally do not do my dodge and burn on the actual image layer. I will add a new 50% greyscale layer and paint with black to "burn" and and paint with white on it for "dodge" rather than using the actual tools on a data layer. I think it looks more natural and it is easier to recover from if you make mistakes. If you want to try something like that and can't find that technique described on the net I could find a link for you.

Usually you can find a vigniette function in your editing software to do that. You can also "burn" a vigniette by hand as well. It is something you will want to try. Look at the high placing images and you will see that vigniettes are often used with them to good artistic effect.

Panasonic DMW-LTZ10 1.5x Teleconverter

05/30/2007 04:23:56 PM · #45

Originally posted by dcb300:

... I learn so much from your critiques.

Flattery will get you everywhere.

Positives:
Color and lighting are the strengths of this composition.

Technicals:
Color, lighting and perspective is good in this image. Cropping to include the tree framing adds viewer interest.

Looking on a sharpness sensitive monitor it appears just a touch oversharpened. You can see some digital "jaggies" along the some of the edges on the stairwell.

You might consider a closer crop to highlight the building more. The overhang just to the immediate right bottom of the building acts as a distraction.

The Challenge:
You scored 4.9 which is about .4 below the challenge average. Voters probably felt the link to the challenge topic was weak and lowered the score because of it. Oversharpening may have contributed to a lower score as well.

Suggestions:
The best change you could make to this for a higher score is to crop it differently and closer to the near wall of the building. By cropping it closer to include only the near wall would better direct viewer attention to the 'shapes' it has which is, after all, what attracted you to the image in the first place. Be sure to crop out everything to the immediate right of the main building wall.

Of course, that would mean cropping out almost all the nice tree framing on the left side which I'd normally recommend doing but it would be better for a "shapes" challenge.

Consider backing off the sharpness a bit to eliminate the "jaggies".

Note:
Your pictures are getting better. You are headed in the right direction. Keep with it and you can be as good or better than anyone else at this site.

dcb300

Panasonic DMC-FZ50

05/30/2007 04:35:18 PM · #46

Steve, Thanks so much for the review. It sure is nice to see some positives in there. They aree so helpful to me.

Thanks again.
Diane

tjbel05

Nikon Z9

Nikon NIKKOR Z 70-200mm f/2.8 VR S

05/30/2007 04:39:08 PM · #47

THANK YOU!!!! YOU ROCK!!! You take time out of your day to share youre knowledge, what an amazing person you are!!! Thank you.

Tammy

Message edited by author 2007-05-30 16:39:24.

05/30/2007 04:42:33 PM · #48

Originally posted by Efergoh:

I expected this one to do a tad better than it did...would appreciate an honest crit.

I'm not a gun person but have to say I think this is a terrific photograph. I'm one of the two folks that gave it a 10. I can't explain the low score.

Positives:
Just about everything in this image is done great. The choice for color desaturation is particularly ominous and therefore appropriate.

Technicals:
Someone else is going to have to tell you what the technical flaws are. I don't see any. Some might suggest the shooter's hand is a little overexposed but that probably isn't even true, its just bright. The hand still retains detail.

The Challenge:
Who could argue that this not only meets the challenge but meets it in a particularly meaningful way.

You scored almost EXACTLY at the challenge average. That blows me away. This picture is no more average than a conservative Republican's ideals. :)

This is just pure guessing, but maybe anti-military feeling played a role in voter reaction to this image. Maybe they think noise reduction is overdone.

When this picture graces the cover of a magazine somewhere I'm gonna start a discussion about it beginning with... "I told you so!"

This one is a 10 all the way.

Suggestions:
Apply a little burn to the shooter's hands.

05/30/2007 05:17:44 PM · #49

Originally posted by chip_k:

I really thought this one would do much better. It was in the "Hair" challenge...

"... here baby, there momma... everywhere daddy, daddy... hair, hair hair...". Excuse me while I regress back to the 60s. ;)

Positives:
Very fine capture worthy of inclusion in a rock stars media portfolio.

Technicals:
Composition and framing are excellent. The moment captured is especially good. Lighting and detail are fine. Overall done well except for one thing...

The only major technical flaw is the red oversaturation. I didn't look at this in photoshop but I'd bet money there is plenty of red even in the "black" background.

The Challenge:
Can't argue it doesn't meet the challenge. Ironically, trying to make it match the challenge 'better' might have contributed to it's downfall.

No doubt the oversaturated reds was the main reason for it's low score. It is most apparent in the guitarist's hands which are way to red.

Suggestions:
Here is a shocker for ya... desaturate the red intensity everywhere but the model's hair.

How do you do that? ... Well, I glad you asked...

The easiest way would be to add the red saturation on a duplicate data layer then add a mask to that layer and paint out the oversaturated parts with a black brush on the mask. Basically that means do that everywhere but the model's hair.

If the image was captured in oversaturated reds to begin with you have another option...

Neat technique to correct red skin color
Do a feathered selection including everything EXCEPT the hair and add a new Hue/Saturation adjustment layer. That will create a layer mask that nicely excludes the guy's hair. Then scroll down the color list and select "red". Then simply click the center and drag it down AWAY from the word "red". You will be amazed how much improvment to the image you will make with this simple, easy adjustment.
End - Neat technique