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05/24/2007 08:30:03 AM · #1 |
OK, here is a question.
In the advanced rule set is says...
"clone out incidental power lines, twigs, dust specks, stray hairs, and similar minor imperfections."
OK, great.
What about paint? Does this rule include paint?
What if there is a portion of an image that could use a bit of paint instead of cloning.
Can paint be used more liberally in the rule set?
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05/24/2007 08:34:34 AM · #2 |
i think there is a distinction to be made between the spirit and the letter of the "law". We all know what "clone out" means... it basically means "remove from image" so i would imagine that means you can do so with whatever means you wish to employ... for instance if there is someone or something lurking in the shadows you dont want in a photo just take the burn tool to it, that is a form of "cloning out" is it not?
But i am a mere mortal... i would wait for a SC comment |
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05/24/2007 08:37:59 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by inshaala:
i think there is a distinction to be made between the spirit and the letter of the "law". We all know what "clone out" means... it basically means "remove from image" so i would imagine that means you can do so with whatever means you wish to employ... for instance if there is someone or something lurking in the shadows you dont want in a photo just take the burn tool to it, that is a form of "cloning out" is it not?
But i am a mere mortal... i would wait for a SC comment |
No, I disagree.
If you burn too much, you will get weird burned looking pixels.
Clone copies the pixel.
Paint paints the pixel.
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05/24/2007 09:41:46 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
OK, here is a question.
What about paint? Does this rule include paint?
What if there is a portion of an image that could use a bit of paint instead of cloning.
Can paint be used more liberally in the rule set? |
Hey Horse... great question.
I have always assumed that within the "spirit" of the site, cloning actually uses pixels that are already a part of the capture, and would therefore be the prefered method... as opposed to paint - where you would be adding pixels that were not already present.
ETA: Infact... i have never used paint - specifically for that reason.
Ofcourse, I may be way off-base...
Message edited by author 2007-05-24 09:44:20. |
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05/24/2007 10:23:07 AM · #5 |
I asked this exact question on this image:
There was some stuff down on the floor - cables and an upright panel. I asked SC via a ticket whether I could just paint white and brown instead cloning, and was told it was fine.
The general concept I've heard various SC members explain is that basic editing is tool-based, whereas advanced editing is results-based. So you're allowed to do various things to achieve the result, and as long as you don't do something that a majority of the SC thinks is going too far in terms of removing something or changing the average person's description, you should be okay.
Message edited by author 2007-05-24 11:35:28.
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05/24/2007 11:06:57 AM · #6 |
| I think paint is adding to the photo...which is bad. Clone is taking away something that doesn't add to the photo or is not supposed to be there all together. |
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05/24/2007 11:10:17 AM · #7 |
Still waiting on SC for there final word.
HELLO, anyone home? Still waiting.
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05/24/2007 11:16:42 AM · #8 |
I don't recall us ever having a discussion about such a thing, since cloning would almost always be a much better method of removing a distracting element, like a dust spot. (I'd be interested in hearing a situation where paint would do a better job.)
Honestly, I'd just stick with the cloning tool in those situations, since that's how it's described in the rules. As someone else mentioned, using the paint tool starts to cross the line of adding elements to a shot.
Editing to add that if you ever have a question like this, simply use the ticketing system and send us examples of what you're doing. That puts it directly into our discussions and you'll get a more definitive answer (as opposed to a couple random opinions) as a result :)
Message edited by author 2007-05-24 11:19:20. |
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05/24/2007 11:35:16 AM · #9 |
Sorry, I should've said that I sent a ticket to the SC to ask, and was told that painting was fine. It might've been kirbic who responded, but I don't remember (it was last fall).
I didn't mean that I asked in a forum thread.
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05/24/2007 12:23:09 PM · #10 |
Painting is not normally used as a cloning alternative but there is another use of painting that I apply in Advanced rules for improving individual colors that should be perfectly acceptable to use.
This technique does not add objects or mask existing objects in the image. It just modifies their color by adding new pixels. That makes this a related but side issue of the original discussion.
It involves painting with color on a newly created 50% greyscale layer. When you do that the color you paint with combines with the colors below it to generate a final hybrid result. The amount of the effect depends on the opacity used when painting. The result is a combination of color painted on the greyscale layer with the layers below it.
Usually you make a color range selection prior to painting. For example, if you wanted to modify the greens then you would do a color range selection for the green tones you wanted to modify prior to painting. Then you only affect the green colors you want.
True, it adds new pixels to the composition but does so very naturally in combination with the existing pixels.
Message edited by author 2007-05-24 12:24:39.
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05/24/2007 12:26:00 PM · #11 |
| this is an issue for anyone who doesn't have a cloning tool. Also, it seems to me that cloning does add/change the pixels in the particular spot that your are removing. Those other pixels weren't just hiding behind what you 'cloned out.' My understanding is that you've basically used a fancy and useful tool to copy pixels from one area over another area. If you use a waterdropper to choose a color(s) present on the photo and paint/airbrush over what you want to remove, then isn't that basically the same thing, only you have to manually make the texture match? I don't understand what the difference is between copying a pixel and painting a pixel. |
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05/24/2007 12:31:16 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Still waiting on SC for there final word.
HELLO, anyone home? Still waiting. |
Well, you've certainly asked... thrice, to be exact, four times counting this public question. My personal view is in line with what Mr. Levy posted. Since Advanced Rules are results-based, the method of removal is of no consequence. If it's OK to remove a particular object, it may be removed by any convenient means. This is not an "official SC opinion" since it doe snot represent a consensus, however I'd be willing to stake a drink that this will be the outcome. |
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05/24/2007 12:49:00 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
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If it's OK to remove a particular object, it may be removed by any convenient means. This is not an "official SC opinion" since it doe snot represent a consensus, however I'd be willing to stake a drink that this will be the outcome. |
Is "doe snot" one of those things that you Wisconsinites use for tracking down 'Bambi' when out hunting? Or did you assume you won that drink already and had it?
Message edited by author 2007-05-24 12:49:27.
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05/24/2007 12:53:05 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Well, you've certainly asked... thrice, to be exact, four times counting this public question. My personal view is in line with what Mr. Levy posted. Since Advanced Rules are results-based, the method of removal is of no consequence. If it's OK to remove a particular object, it may be removed by any convenient means. This is not an "official SC opinion" since it doe snot represent a consensus, however I'd be willing to stake a drink that this will be the outcome. |
Sorry if I am a bother.
I don't know how your SC process works.
I don't know if you have to call Landen or Drew, I don't know if you need a quorum of SC memebers to give their views, I don't know if you have a special 8 Ball that gives answers to questions....I DON'T KNOW.
What I do know is that I haves spent 4 days, several hours, different lighting setups, different angles, and a lot of effort to get the image that I am after.
I am not about to get DQed over a rule.
I am anxious, and my first response to my very first question frankly was not answered to it's fullest.
Now, I am on the back burner, and I am ready to get off the stove.
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05/24/2007 01:09:08 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by kirbic:
Well, you've certainly asked... thrice, to be exact, four times counting this public question. My personal view is in line with what Mr. Levy posted. Since Advanced Rules are results-based, the method of removal is of no consequence. If it's OK to remove a particular object, it may be removed by any convenient means. This is not an "official SC opinion" since it doe snot represent a consensus, however I'd be willing to stake a drink that this will be the outcome. |
Sorry if I am a bother.
I don't know how your SC process works.
I don't know if you have to call Landen or Drew, I don't know if you need a quorum of SC memebers to give their views, I don't know if you have a special 8 Ball that gives answers to questions....I DON'T KNOW.
What I do know is that I haves spent 4 days, several hours, different lighting setups, different angles, and a lot of effort to get the image that I am after.
I am not about to get DQed over a rule.
I am anxious, and my first response to my very first question frankly was not answered to it's fullest.
Now, I am on the back burner, and I am ready to get off the stove. |
Apologies if I appeared a little brusque. Please note that on each ticket response from us, the initial line asks the recipient to respond to that message, and not start a new ticket. It *really* enhances response time and accuracy to keep all discussion on a topic in a single ticket. In this case, the multiple images submitted for consideration also meant additional review time.
Each of your replies to the original ticket was answered in a timely manner. The question of method will be answered, as will the specific question on removal of certain items in the latest attachment. It may take a day or so for review; this is true each time we need to get consensus on a new question (including reviewing new images sent as attachments. Yes, it can be a slow process, but bear in mind that there may be as many as a dozen or more questions in queue at any one time, and we can't spend all of our time addressing them, as there are other tasks to attend to, and real life occasionally intrudes :-)
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