Need help: "Fill the Frame" - DPChallenge Forums

07/23/2003 11:33:44 AM · #26

Originally posted by ScottK:

Autool, I might see yours as being closer if: there wasn't the sky, and there wasn't the cabin. If all you saw were the hills, and they completely filled the frame, then you could make the case that they are the subject - or more importantly, the viewer wouldn't have to think so much about it.

Pshaw: My point is that the landscape is a picture of just that a landscape. To fit the challenge it would be framed in its entirety in the camera. The photographer would have cropped out all of the junk (telephone lines, trash left by the last group, teeny tiny birds in the sky, airplanes, etc)with the camera. Thats all I am trying to point out.

If I were to choose, say a thimble as my fill the frame subject, without the outline of the thimble, what is it? I think most likely a frame filled with some sort of metal thingy with a bunch of dents in it.

Hmm! I wonder if my new diopters will let me get that close?

Message edited by author 2003-07-23 11:35:10.

07/23/2003 03:07:01 PM · #27

Originally posted by pitsaman:

Everyone has to make THIS KIND of picture or else,I'm giving 1's :-)

It shows a frame, but it's not filled... ;-)

I didn't say I'd give you a 1. But definitely not a 10. Just somewhere in between...

07/23/2003 03:12:35 PM · #28

Originally posted by autool:

If I were to choose, say a thimble as my fill the frame subject, without the outline of the thimble, what is it? I think most likely a frame filled with some sort of metal thingy with a bunch of dents in it.

Ah, now that's the challenge, isn't it! Find a subject that can fill the frame, but still be recognized. And interesting. Very often, landscapes have something in them besides the scenery or background, that help make them interesting. That's why your example that you posted would be so difficult - without that cabin, the shot becomes a bit less interesting. If you shot rolling hills (for example), that filled the frame with no other details, and say there were some really interesting shadows, colors, lighting, textures, whatever, then you might have a winner. Stick some object (house, tree, animal, etc.), and that will become the subject in many people's eyes, and suddenly it doesn't really fit the challenge.

Tamron AF 18-200 f/3.5-6.3 XR Di II

07/24/2003 10:02:12 AM · #29

Scott,
I am back now but in favor of concluding this discussion. I don't completely agree that the frame has to be totally filled with subject,and I know that is what was said in the challenge description. The phrase "fill the frame" has been around a long time and my understanding is that it means for the photographer to get as much of the main subject in the frame as possible to make the picture more interesting, etc.

An example of this train of thought is here.

Good luck with the challenge.
Dick

Message edited by author 2003-07-24 10:46:44.

fleenk

Nikon D70

07/24/2003 10:44:14 AM · #30

Well, the way I see it, most of the challenges leave a lot of room for interpretation. As they are not really specific, the viewer has to bear in mind that we are all individual thinkers, and allow for that difference. So it really comes down to...what is the subject??

A closed mouth gathers no feet...
Judy

rickhd13

Sigma 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 DL Aspherical IF Hyperzoom for Canon

07/24/2003 10:46:05 AM · #31

Originally posted by hortopth:

..
I think people (voters) need to relax about filling the challenge requirements

then why, pray tell, do we even have a challenge requirement??

orussell

Canon EOS Rebel T6s

Canon EF 55-200mm f/4.5-5.6 II USM

07/24/2003 10:56:19 AM · #32

If your crop out part of the subject to fill the frame completely with the subject, there are those who will knock you for that. If you fill the frame to the very edges of your subject, leaving some background, some people will knock you for that. The point is, we have no pat definition - everyone has their own opinion as to what this challenge should be. I admit I have no definitive answer as to what it should be. I think we need clearer challenge guidelines or scrap the themed challenges all together.

rickhd13

Sigma 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 DL Aspherical IF Hyperzoom for Canon

07/24/2003 11:00:50 AM · #33

Originally posted by orussell:

I think we need clearer challenge guidelines or scrap the themed challenges all together.

I am getting to the point of agreement with you on this orussell

It seems that with every challenge there is an immediate discussion in here about what constitutes this or that about the challenge...the admins post a challenge topic, a brief few words about it and let it go..and then there is a week long discussion about what is a trend, for example, and then a week long bitch session about how this one or that one didn't meet the challenge...then of course the folks that come right out and say it doesn't matter if it meets the challenge or not, if its a nice picture give it a 10

Maybe we should adoto the concept of BestFoto.com and just have wide open challenges with 5 or 6 topics and let it go at that

magnetic9999

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

07/24/2003 11:02:44 AM · #34

It's good to try to perfect something, definitely :) ..

As far as scrapping it altogether, that's probably not too likely, considering those are what the site is based on - and there seems to be no shortage of people who do submit without problems or complaints :) ..

Originally posted by orussell:

I think we need clearer challenge guidelines or scrap the themed challenges all together.

Stewan

Kodak CX4200

07/24/2003 11:08:49 AM · #35

Sahko's ignorance could certainly fill the frame! :) How about a macro of any object..try to figure out what it is. Would be not obvious....not the entire object..just a portion of it, but fill the frame with it.

magnetic9999

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

07/24/2003 11:10:43 AM · #36

personal attacks are prohibited on dpc. please refrain ..

thanks.

Magnetic9999

Originally posted by Stewan:

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

07/24/2003 11:12:01 AM · #37

For almost every challenge there has been a straight forward set of themes that met the challenge in even the most literal mind.

If you want a non-contraversial score its simple - shoot one of those themes.

Then, again for each challenge, there are an increasing amount of 'edge' interpretations that are often more creative and occasionally better received, but with the increasing opportunity for people to not get it.
If you want - shoot one of them, but it seems to be futile to pick something that could easily be misinterpretted, and then complain when people don't get it.

If you want to take risks, take risks.

It isn't like you only have to take pictures that fit the particular dpc hallenge theme each week. Drew and Lang aren't going to check your harddrive to make sure you haven't taken non-challenge pictures...

Fill the Frame is a good example. It is a well understood photographic principle to improve photos for beginners, who typically shoot from too far away and have the subject as a small percentage of the final picture. The approach is to simply get closer and get more of the subject in the frame - this is the generally understood meaning of 'fill the frame'

However, for DPC - you have to go to the most literal interpretation for 'full comfort' in this case, it means the comfort zone for challenge entries is 'no background at all - nothing that isn't subject' From there you can argue increasing amounts of background if you like but you increase the risk of people 'not getting it' as a filled frame. You want the most extreme example of the theme if you want to be on topic as much as possible. I don't really get why people fight this every week, it seems pretty self-evident. (and yes I used to complain about it too)

Message edited by author 2003-07-24 11:15:01.

StevePax

Canon PowerShot S50

07/24/2003 11:16:39 AM · #38

Originally posted by orussell:

The challenge guidelines are perfectly clear. It's the voters who are out of control. If you crop the shot to completely fill the frame with the subject, you met the challenge. If you fill the frame to the very edges with your subject (leaving a tiny bit of background), you met the challenge.

Don't you see?

We need to accept both interpretations as valid. Everyone has different ideas of what the challenge should be. If you fit the challenge in your way, and I can see what your way is (even if I didn't want to do it in that same way), then you met the challenge and I will vote accordingly. I'm not saying you should shoehorn your shot into the challenge, but if you met the challenge in some way, it is met. I accept your viewpoint, and since it's your shot, it is valid. End of story.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

07/24/2003 11:27:42 AM · #39

So there are two things you can do once you realise that the voters are as a mass literal, unimaginative lunkheads (obviously not any of the ones who read fourms)

You can complain about it, enter edgy, creative interpretations of the challenge, and complain more about it when you get '1' votes for not being literally all over the challenge.

or you can accept it, and try and be as on challenge as possible while creating the best possible picture. Then complain about the people who say 'oh no, not another couldn't you be more creative'

Damned if you do...

nathaliedoo

Canon EOS-550D Rebel T2i

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Canon

07/24/2003 11:59:39 AM · #40

HA HA HA! SO WELL SAID!!!

Originally posted by Gordon:

07/24/2003 12:02:01 PM · #41

Originally posted by StevePax:

If you crop the shot to completely fill the frame with the subject, you met the challenge. If you fill the frame to the very edges with your subject (leaving a tiny bit of background), you met the challenge.

You do mean to cropwith the camera not in post processing don't you. Fill the frame means fill the frame of your view finder doesn't it?

StevePax

Canon PowerShot S50

07/24/2003 12:04:08 PM · #42

Originally posted by autool:

Originally posted by StevePax:
If you crop the shot to completely fill the frame with the subject, you met the challenge. If you fill the frame to the very edges with your subject (leaving a tiny bit of background), you met the challenge.

You do mean to cropwith the camera not in post processing don't you. Fill the frame means fill the frame of your view finder doesn't it?

You'll never know and I'm not telling.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

07/24/2003 12:17:03 PM · #43

Originally posted by StevePax:

You'll never know and I'm not telling.

Thanks

Pedro

Nikon D200

07/24/2003 12:55:59 PM · #44

Originally posted by pitsaman:

Everyone has to make THIS KIND of picture or else,I'm giving 1's :-)

Kosta, you don't want me taking that kind of picture. I don't look all that good in a bra. Or a "Man-zier" as I prefer to call them. Or was that a "Bro"?

Pedro

07/24/2003 01:50:05 PM · #45

Originally posted by Gordon:

... or, you can go either way, but skip the complaining, learn (or not) from the feedback (if you're luck enough to get some), and go happily on to the next challenge. Damnation avoided. ;-)

07/24/2003 01:51:37 PM · #46

Originally posted by StevePax:

You'll never know and I'm not telling.

LOL! Just make sure you maintain that 4:3 aspect ratio!

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi