| Author | Thread |
|
|
03/12/2007 11:39:06 PM · #1 |
In every society, in every nation, in all the world, every person wants to be part of some community/fraternity/club/clique.
The fascists of the Hitler and Mussolini era new how to mold their respective countries by calling Nationalism a cause, and dressing their people in "member only" uniforms.
The Ku Klux Klan in the white supremacy movement wear sheets to make their unique "membership" stand out from other memberships.
Cub Scouts and Girl scouts are part of a members only club wearing their uniforms.
The military to the church, a motorcycle, leather wearing gang to a sports team, a suit wearing CEO to a skinny dipping happy go lucky all have their own type of uniform they wear to distinct themselves unique from the rest of the world around them.
My questions to you is this.
We as photographers, wearing our slr's or our point and shoots. Are we a unique club?
I do not mean anything part of DPC. DPC is just a hub for us to gather , turn on, spout off, and show off. DPC does not count. But, a camera club does.
Since we as photographers need our equipment to capture an image, does wearing that camera around your neck make you feel special? Unique? Someone different from the rest of the world?
If you have an SLR. Do you look down at the PAS people? Are SLR people more superior that PAS people? Are the two 'uniforms' that differant?
Do PAS people look down at SLR people? Are SLR people and their heavy camera gear make them more of a target for criticism when their performance does not match their uniform.
Every person want to be part of a fraternity or club, are photographers?
Intelligent answers are requested. Ignorance is only bliss if answers are not sought.
|
|
|
|
03/12/2007 11:49:09 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by American_Horse:
does wearing that camera around your neck make you feel special? |
wearing one on the neck makes people look geeky, sometimes
Message edited by author 2007-03-12 23:52:02. |
|
|
|
03/13/2007 12:20:35 AM · #3 |
When I was out shooting an event this weekend, a photographer with a huge state of the art Canon rig turned around, saw my setup, and got very excited to see that I was shooting with a Holga. His probably cost several thousand dollars, and mine is a crappy plastic $18 point and shoot - but it's a trendy one that gives a photographer instant "street cred" with other photographers in the know. Turned out he was shooting for the Rocky Mountain News. Go figure.
In general, a point and shoot camera is kinda like driving a Camry. Anyone can do it and it's not terribly exciting. Everyone has a P&S stuffed in their shirt pocket these days. But a DSLR? That's a badge. Last Friday at my favorite cafe, there was a woman shooting the interior with a Nikon. I couldn't tell what model it was, and I had no problem going right up to her and asking. It was a D200, by the way, and we had a good few minutes talking shop. A DSLR definitely marks you as a Photographer with a capital P, whereas I need a tripod to pull that off with my Coolpix.
In general, I think the inferiority I feel when I'm using my Coolpix at a GTG surrounded by DSLRs is mostly in my head, but it is there. It's tough to be taken seriously in a crowd with my camera when I'm standing next to someone like Beau. He looks like a Photographer. I look like a tourist.
But I will say that you're not truly hardcore until you've gone out in public wearing a camera bag and two cameras around your neck, like I did this weekend. THAT is badass, LOL...
Message edited by author 2007-03-13 00:22:56.
|
|
|
|
03/13/2007 12:30:24 AM · #4 |
hello Sir,
not much time to comment, but i understand where you are going with this.
I dont think i would call it a club for me its more of an appreciation of interest's. It comes into play almost every time im out in the city with my camera, I give "the nod" to most friendly looking photographers that i see. I stop walking rather than getting in the way of a photographers subject (i hate it when people do this to me because they usually are my subject :)
If a photographer passes another photographer walking down the street I would bet most of the time they would find it easier to tell you what kind of camera and lens they use than pick their faces out of a line up.
When i am out driving my panelvan around its a similar situation if another panelvan driver see's me he will give me "the nod" or give me space in the traffic, i believe this is because he appreciates my interests rather than being part of a club etc..
dont know if any of that made sense.
nick
|
|
|
|
03/13/2007 01:38:19 AM · #5 |
very cool question american_horse.
[caution...the thoughts below may roam on and off topic...sorry]
I think it is sort of a club and I do believe that having a DSLR puts you into a different level of that club but along with that your personality and actions can put you on a different level too.
Maybe it's cause I went through 2 P&S cameras and about 7 years before going DSLR but I sometimes feel like I've "earned" my right to have it...even though I haven't really sold much work or make a living off of it. I know I'm still no where close to the level of even a quarter of the photogs on here but with my DSLR I feel like I can compete a little better (of course a look at my scores will say otherwise lol).
I have found myself looking down on people if I think they are "too young or green" to be using a DSLR and have all those awesome lenses...I'm not saying I'm proud of that, just stating it. I have come across quite a few people that instantly think you can only get the great shots by having a nice DSLR (my wife was one for a long...no wait she still thinks that a lot), they go out and buy the newest camera a lens or two then don't even use the thing (I work with a person right now that bought a rebel and a nice lens but hasn't even taken it out of the box yet. When we went on the whale watching tour she didn't bring her camera..she said "why should I, I knew you'd have yours"). Worse yet is when they don't know how to do anything other than push the shutter. You start trying to offer help and they just say "oh I use Program, it does it itself".
Then there are the ones that act like idiots in public, don't respect others or their property but expect to be seen as a professional cause they have got the equipment. While there are people that are super polite and can handle themselves properly in any situation that are seen as less adaquate cause they use a P&S. BUT just cause I don't think they've "earned" their DSLR doesn't necessarily mean that I will not give them a professional nod or talk with them about their hobby/profession (my shyness usually makes me not do that unless they ask me first).
I do see it as a sort of uniform and just like the uniform I actually do wear all day, I try and represent myself in a professional manner and try to be a good ambassador to the world of photography. I always try to be aware of my surroundings, especially if I'm in a very photographed area, and I try to make sure I'm not killing someone elses shot or otherwise getting in their way but you will find some that just jump right in there and don't care who is around them or what is going on. I've actually heard of both P&S and SLR users doing this to the paid photog at weddings.
I'm not sure if P&S users look down on SLR users but I think a lot look at us confused, often wondering why we need such a huge camera and lens when they get the shot with the camera in their shirt pocket. It, again, goes back to how you handle yourself... I would much rather be in a club full of P&Sers that can handle themselves and at least act professional than be with SLR users that are being arses.
Hope I didn't degress too badly, it is an interesting topic. |
|
|
|
03/13/2007 02:54:14 PM · #6 |
bumping because this is interesting.
|
|
|
|
03/13/2007 03:05:49 PM · #7 |
I understand the thought, but I can't say I feel any different or part of a group. I giggle when i see someone using a camera phone at the zoo to shoot a lion 100 feet away, but I'd do that without a camera around my neck. And yeah, when I catch someone with their own gear checking out my equipment I give them a nod or say hi. But I never feel better or separated from anyone else, where ever I may be shooting. I'm out doing my thing, they are doing theirs.
Message edited by author 2007-03-13 15:06:35. |
|
|
|
03/13/2007 03:50:50 PM · #8 |
I've been guilty of the "bag plus 2 slrs around the neck" geekiness. (Sorry Rebecca, as much as I wish it was "badass" it's really just "geek" --- but perhaps its different if your a guy versus a girl, as girl geeks are HOT! ;).
I think it is a "club" of sorts, but perhaps more along the lines of the cliques that used to form in high school -- i.e., the DSLR "cool kids" versus the point-and-click "nerds." Perhaps it is this perception that makes me a bit contrarian in regard to my equipment choices. I love the looks I get from the "tubers" - guys with their wiz-bang DSLRs and oversized lenses - when I pull out one of my old 1970s film rangefinders, or even my old canon film SLR. The rangefinders sometimes get a positive response, but the film slr is more likely just to get me a pity look.
edited for typos
Message edited by author 2007-03-13 15:52:32.
|
|
|
|
03/13/2007 03:58:34 PM · #9 |
Brother Horse,
If I read your question correctly, you are ranking "accessorizing" in the same category as "wearing a uniform". But all your examples involve clothing, or lack of same. If we're to consider all these as examples of a single phenomenon, the phenomenon of "identification with", then we'd want to include distinctive jewelry, hairstyles, body piercings, tattoos, distinct modes of walking, all manners of contrived body language (think "ghetto signs", and so forth.
I'd personally make a distinction between actual uniforms which are mandated by organized groups in official functions and accessorizing, a matter of personal taste to associate with a group whether or not you happen to belong to it. In the latter category, for example, is all the currently fashionable (and entirely lamentable, IMO) "jailhouse hip-hop fashion we see the youth wearing nowadays. But I'm turning into an old fart, I know I am :-)
I'll drop back in later with an opinion on camera-as-accessory...
R.
Message edited by author 2007-03-13 15:59:37.
|
|
|
|
03/13/2007 04:00:50 PM · #10 |
| One hot spring day last year, I was shooting some pretty orange rhododendrons at the botanical garden, using my 'prosumer' fixed-lens camera. It was getting hot & the breeze was picking up. After spending the morning shooting every angle I could think of on these intresting flowers, which were at their peak, I was ready to give it up. I had a funny hat on, sandals, & shorts--I looked like a tourist. As I was walking along the path I encountered a photographer coming along in the other direction, headed toward the same flowers. He was professional in appearance, including the vest w/the specialized pockets, two camera bodies around his neck, & a kit w/wheels on the bottom to which was strapped more cases containing lenses, a tripod, etc., all in matching black kevlar. I saw him, but he didn't see me. I wonder if I'd been a man toting a lot of gear...would he have seen me? I think he spent more on him camera cases than I spent on my car! I wonder if he got better pictures? |
|
|
|
03/13/2007 04:01:38 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by American_Horse:
...Intelligent answers are requested... |
I was about to reply, but then I saw this rider at the end, which immediately ruled me out. In the future, please put this rider at the top of your posts as I'm a slow reader. Thanks. |
|
|
|
03/13/2007 09:10:13 PM · #12 |
| i'm just a tourist with a tiny camera - security personnels almost never stop me when i take photos in otherwise sensitive areas. i used to get stopped often, or asked what i was going to do with the photos when i was using my larger cameras. |
|
|
|
03/13/2007 11:44:33 PM · #13 |
So that I am clear.
Back in the day, when there was this thing called 'film'. Photographers were in an exclusive club of their own.
The cost of the equipment, the labor involved to produce the images using a dark room and chemicals, the length of time involved before the gratification of the work kicked in. It was almost as if photographers were some sort of 'wizard' when film was around.
Photographers were in a league of their own.
Then Polaroids came out, closing the gap between the pro and the amateurs.
Today, with the advent of digital. The rules have changed. Now, everyone has a camera. Cameras are every where.
But look. Are those cameras for the pro? the amateur? is it a phone camera?
Our communal world is smaller now because of digital.
Because we are a 'clique' of sorts with our PAS, and our SLR. Does this uniform, this badge, this trophy tell others that "YES, I AM A PHOTOGRAPHER AND YOUR NOT."
Does it make others wish that they too had a camera to be part of a club?
Does this uniform tell others that we are 'special'? or does it make others jealous?
Does that camera empower your ego? or does it flatter it?
Is this a fraternity that we as photographers want to be part of? or is it something to be ensued?
Message edited by author 2007-03-13 23:56:07.
|
|
|
|
03/13/2007 11:53:32 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by American_Horse:
Does that camera empower your ego? or does it flatter it? |
i believe this is what this thread is mainly about, isnt it?
most joe-public would buy the 1D-MKIII (or anything high end) and some expensive lenses just so they can appear like a "real photographer", and get their ego lifted.
|
|
|
|
03/14/2007 01:41:48 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by American_Horse:
Does that camera empower your ego? or does it flatter it? |
i believe this is what this thread is mainly about, isnt it?
most joe-public would buy the 1D-MKIII (or anything high end) and some expensive lenses just so they can appear like a "real photographer", and get their ego lifted. |
not only that but there are many that do it thinking it will make them a better photographer...reminds me of when they say "wow that's a nice picture, you must have a great camera". |
|
|
|
03/15/2007 02:51:33 AM · #16 |
|
|
|
03/15/2007 03:33:55 AM · #17 |
If you want to play with the big boys, you gotta get the right tools. That's why I never fit in, my camera isn't big enough. Size shouldn't matter. I tried adding a battery grip so everyone would think my camera was something special, but that only worked for a quick glance until they saw that it was just the strap on grip. My wife left me for some guy with a bigger one so finally I went out and bought a d2h like he had, but it was too little too late.
|
|
|
|
03/15/2007 03:50:14 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by deapee:
If you want to play with the big boys, you gotta get the right tools. That's why I never fit in, my camera isn't big enough. Size shouldn't matter. I tried adding a battery grip so everyone would think my camera was something special, but that only worked for a quick glance until they saw that it was just the strap on grip. My wife left me for some guy with a bigger one so finally I went out and bought a d2h like he had, but it was too little too late. |
deapee, i didnt want to make things worse for you, but somebody has got to tell you this. it's not the camera body, its the lens. your wife didnt leave you for the d2h, she left you for that bigma.
(crayon quickly runs and hides) |
|
|
|
03/15/2007 05:30:11 AM · #19 |
|
|
|
03/15/2007 10:16:50 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by crayon:
 |
Yes, exactly my point.
Membership into this 'club' of ours wearing that 'uniform'.
Parity is not a guarantee.
Quality is not a guarantee.
How we feel as photographers is for the ego to determine.
The uniform of the camera does not make us a photographer. It does however, IMO, empower us to do things other non photographers wish they can do. Making our 'uniform' a sought after item.
A little cash up front is all is needed. Then, anyone can be in our 'club', wearing our 'uniform'. And for the newbe, all they have to do is push a button to get satisfaction.
|
|
|
|
03/15/2007 11:30:37 AM · #21 |
For me, I don't see it as a uniform, but more as a signal of the feelings of the photographer. The body language comes through much more strongly as the indicator of "professionalism." The confidence or lack of it shines through loud and clear as the photog moves and shoots.
There is research that indicates that 85% of our message comes from our look and body language, while only 15% comes from our words. the largest part comes from body language. So, while the beginnings of our message will come from our look, our uniform, the major part comes from what we do and the way we act. |
|
|
|
03/15/2007 09:26:26 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by American_Horse:
A little cash up front is all is needed. Then, anyone can be in our 'club', wearing our 'uniform'. And for the newbe, all they have to do is push a button to get satisfaction. |
The "uniform" is easy to buy nowadays - anybody could buy it and wear it. This is primarily due to the ever lowering price of equipment, especially camera bodies. In my local photography club, we have complete newbies with a bag full of lenses (good ones too) and bodies like 5D (which appears to be the entry-level...) and D200, and a few 1DMK-somethings. They have big camera bags, expensive camera straps, tripods and the whole deal. From appearance, they do look like real professional photographers, but being in the same club, i know better (you'll be amazed, some of them dont know when to use what apertures or shutter, or even ISO). and so, the trend now even among my non-photography buddies is, everyone knows that cameras are affordable and everybody have one, and the general public is beginning to get used to people with large cameras, and they usually dont regard them as real photographers unless you shoot for publications, etc. |
|
|
|
03/16/2007 12:46:27 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by American_Horse:
A little cash up front is all is needed. Then, anyone can be in our 'club', wearing our 'uniform'. And for the newbe, all they have to do is push a button to get satisfaction. |
The "uniform" is easy to buy nowadays - anybody could buy it and wear it. This is primarily due to the ever lowering price of equipment, especially camera bodies.
From appearance, they do look like real professional photographers, but being in the same club, i know better (you'll be amazed, some of them dont know when to use what apertures or shutter, or even ISO). and so, the trend now even among my non-photography buddies is, everyone knows that cameras are affordable and everybody have one, and the general public is beginning to get used to people with large cameras, and they usually dont regard them as real photographers unless you shoot for publications, etc. |
The 'uniform' may fit, but when it comes to how to make it work is a total different thing.
Looking down at others is common among cliques. Even within the clique itself. An "Alpha Dog" mentality becomes apparent.
|
|
|
|
03/16/2007 12:50:38 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
But I will say that you're not truly hardcore until you've gone out in public wearing a camera bag and two cameras around your neck, like I did this weekend. THAT is badass, LOL... |
I'm almost always wearing two PAS camera bags ... : ) |
|
|
|
03/16/2007 01:07:16 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Rebecca:
But I will say that you're not truly hardcore until you've gone out in public wearing a camera bag and two cameras around your neck, like I did this weekend. THAT is badass, LOL... |
I'm almost always wearing two PAS camera bags ... : ) |
Oooooh....
|
|
