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03/05/2007 07:33:09 PM · #1 |
Let's hypothetically say you lost an item of value (both monetary and sentimental) in November, 1995. You searched high and low for it, but couldn't find it. You filed an insurance claim and it was paid. You bought a replacement item. Now, in March, 2007, the item has been found. You are very happy. You don't care about the monetary value, you are just amazed and happy to have your item back.
Do you have any monetary obligation to your insurance company?
Hypothetically, of course.
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03/05/2007 07:35:43 PM · #2 |
| More than 10 years later, I wouldn't think so. Just my guess, though. |
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03/05/2007 07:37:44 PM · #3 |
| Technically the insurance company owns the item. If you want to take the straight and narrow you can call them and ask what they want to do with it. They might even say "nothing" as I doubt they want to be in the resell business. |
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03/05/2007 07:47:01 PM · #4 |
Yes, you have a monetary obligation to the insurance company to return whatever amount of money that they paid you if you want to keep the original item. Doc is right, they paid for it so they now own it.
I'm sure they'd let you keep it if they got their money back.
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03/05/2007 07:55:32 PM · #5 |
Id call just to be on the good side of karma, but I can only imagine they will be so shocked at your honesty that they let you keep it, either that or they put you in jail for insurance fraud.
lol
Message edited by author 2007-03-05 19:55:49. |
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03/05/2007 07:58:52 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by Shadowi6:
Id call just to be on the good side of karma, but I can only imagine they will be so shocked at your honesty that they let you keep it, either that or they put you in jail for insurance fraud.
lol |
I'm pretty sure it's not fraud to find a missing item, only if you filed a claim for an item that you knew for sure wasn't really "missing."
I worked in the property/casualty insurance industry for several years, and I've never heard of a company wanting the actual item back...just the money. They'll probably even let you have a payment plan if it was a large amount.
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03/05/2007 08:06:27 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by L2:
Originally posted by Shadowi6:
Id call just to be on the good side of karma, but I can only imagine they will be so shocked at your honesty that they let you keep it, either that or they put you in jail for insurance fraud.
lol |
I'm pretty sure it's not fraud to find a missing item, only if you filed a claim for an item that you knew for sure wasn't really "missing."
I worked in the property/casualty insurance industry for several years, and I've never heard of a company wanting the actual item back...just the money. They'll probably even let you have a payment plan if it was a large amount. |
While I agree you should tell them, I ask can you sell the newer one to give the money back? also did the raise your rates? if they want you to pay the money back like it never happened then they should deduct the money you paid extra, like it never happened. |
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03/05/2007 08:06:59 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by L2:
I'm pretty sure it's not fraud to find a missing item, only if you filed a claim for an item that you knew for sure wasn't really "missing."
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hence the lol |
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03/05/2007 10:27:11 PM · #9 |
If anybody wants a really good summer read, I'd suggest "Ship of Gold in the Deep Blue Sea". I mention it because it's the story of a guy with the vision of finding the SS Central America which sank with 15 tons of gold on board. After it was found, 100 years later, the insurance company claimed the gold because they had paid the claim on it. They didn't actually get it, but they did get the value of the gold at the time it was lost.
So what was it that you lost? |
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03/05/2007 10:31:25 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by L2:
I worked in the property/casualty insurance industry for several years, and I've never heard of a company wanting the actual item back... |
What if a person was dead, and then years later they come back to life? -sorry, couldn't resist. :-) |
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03/05/2007 10:40:10 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Telehubbie:
Originally posted by L2:
I worked in the property/casualty insurance industry for several years, and I've never heard of a company wanting the actual item back... |
What if a person was dead, and then years later they come back to life? -sorry, couldn't resist. :-) |
Ahh - life insurance is a bit different. They just want you to start paying premiums again and...ta da!!!! refund the claim money. :)
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03/05/2007 10:41:44 PM · #12 |
| Morally and likely legally you owe the insurance company the value they paid out for the claim. |
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03/05/2007 11:41:38 PM · #13 |
Insurance is one big scam. Be happy that you took them for a change.
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03/06/2007 01:27:26 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
Morally and likely legally you owe the insurance company the value they paid out for the claim. |
Legally, yes, but morally?
Say, you are paying premiums for your car, say $500 a year for 10 years and you never get into an accident. At that time, you decide to ride the bus for the rest of your life and get rid of the car. Legally, insurance company won't return the money to you. Morally, should they? |
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03/06/2007 02:08:14 AM · #15 |
| I have to apologize, but I think you should just keep it all, hypothetically speaking, of course. Hey, you have paid your insurance company probably 10x the value they have ever paid you. So if you come out on top for one moment, take it with all the glory that you can. That is my opinion. |
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03/06/2007 08:12:40 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by srdanz:
Legally, yes, but morally?
Say, you are paying premiums for your car, say $500 a year for 10 years and you never get into an accident. At that time, you decide to ride the bus for the rest of your life and get rid of the car. Legally, insurance company won't return the money to you. Morally, should they? |
When you enter into an auto insurance contract, you are buying essentially a promise to pay IF you get into an accident. If you are lucky and don't get into one, the contract is still valid because they would have paid *but for* the fact that you didn't need them to. So no, both legally and morally they held up their end of the deal and no refund is due.
Insurance premiums aren't a downpayment on future claims. As a policyholder, you are part of a homogenous pool of people who all pay a small sum to have lots of dollars available for the few in the pool who actually need the money during that period of time where the contract is in force.
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03/06/2007 08:40:40 AM · #17 |
I guess you can say that it's legalized, mandatory gambling, then! :)
Originally posted by L2:
When you enter into an auto insurance contract, you are buying essentially a promise to pay IF you get into an accident. If you are lucky and don't get into one, the contract is still valid because they would have paid *but for* the fact that you didn't need them to. So no, both legally and morally they held up their end of the deal and no refund is due. |
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03/06/2007 08:54:16 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
I guess you can say that it's legalized, mandatory gambling, then! :)
Originally posted by L2:
When you enter into an auto insurance contract, you are buying essentially a promise to pay IF you get into an accident. If you are lucky and don't get into one, the contract is still valid because they would have paid *but for* the fact that you didn't need them to. So no, both legally and morally they held up their end of the deal and no refund is due. |
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It is not very different. Amusingly, when life assurance was first introduced, people took out life insurance on other people (basically gambling on who would die v premium offered). The law was changed to prevent you from taking insurance out on someone else's life as a consequence!
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03/06/2007 08:59:55 AM · #19 |
To answer the OP - there is a legal obligation to disclose this to your insurance company. Failing to do so would be an instance of insurance fraud. However, if you did not, in practice it is unlikely that you would be investigated after such a long period.
How the item would be dealt with would depend on its nature and value and the internal policies of the insurance company. A return of the claim amount plus interest could be required.
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03/06/2007 09:16:03 AM · #20 |
How would they know you found it!?!?!?!
Say nothing...
How much money are we talking though 10's 100's or 1000's of $/£'s |
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03/06/2007 09:54:26 AM · #21 |
I have not read all posts on this thread but if you are in Canada or the US ... the statute of limitations on all debts and financial obligations is 7 years. Then they no longer exist.
I don't think the insurance company has ANY claim on the original you found it any case. The worst that they might do is ASK for the replacement ... or their money back.
... but after more than seven years, I think they have no claim whatsoever on anything ...
Message edited by author 2007-03-06 09:57:45.
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03/06/2007 10:17:10 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by Greetmir:
I have not read all posts on this thread but if you are in Canada or the US ... the statute of limitations on all debts and financial obligations is 7 years. Then they no longer exist.
I don't think the insurance company has ANY claim on the original you found it any case. The worst that they might do is ASK for the replacement ... or their money back.
... but after more than seven years, I think they have no claim whatsoever on anything ... |
I am not sure about this - I am a UK not a US lawyer, but on my understanding the insurance company has a title interest in the lost goods. That does not expire after any time. Plus, fraud is usually excepted from statutes of limitation, and time for limitation purposes would only start running now (on the discovery and non-return of the goods in question).
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03/06/2007 06:34:45 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Greetmir:
I have not read all posts on this thread but if you are in Canada or the US ... the statute of limitations on all debts and financial obligations is 7 years. Then they no longer exist.
I don't think the insurance company has ANY claim on the original you found it any case. The worst that they might do is ASK for the replacement ... or their money back.
... but after more than seven years, I think they have no claim whatsoever on anything ... |
The insurance company absolutely has a claim on the recovered goods, as they are the new owner by virtue of having paid the claim. This is not a financial debt or financial obligation situation, it's a matter of transfer of ownership.
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