" Dove Commercial" Challenge, Expert Editing.

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Nikon

01/29/2007 02:10:51 PM · #1

Make a side by side, before and after comparison of a portrait showing the effects of digital editing to make an "ordinary" model look extraordinary.

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Dove Film

jdannels

Nikon D300s

01/29/2007 02:14:02 PM · #2

I think that would be interesting but if you did a side by side of the images then I think the challenge would be only about the editing. I would like to see a fashion challenge run under expert editing though and I think you would see these types of edits.

01/29/2007 02:17:29 PM · #3

Originally posted by jdannels:

well yeah, it WOULD be just about how good the editing was, that's sort of the point. You wouldn't have to have the most beautiful model and greatest lighting. It's expert editing, let the PS masters show off their talent in a tangible way.

A standard fashion challenge would just be another challenge IMO. I thought the side-bye-side would make it a bit more interesting.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

01/29/2007 02:19:08 PM · #4

Would probably need to run as a 720 challenge too.

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

01/29/2007 02:22:23 PM · #5

Originally posted by wavelength:

Originally posted by jdannels:
I think that would be interesting but if you did a side by side of the images then I think the challenge would be only about the editing. I would like to see a fashion challenge run under expert editing though and I think you would see these types of edits.

well yeah, it WOULD be just about how good the editing was, that's sort of the point. You wouldn't have to have the most beautiful model and greatest lighting. It's expert editing, let the PS masters show off their talent in a tangible way.

A standard fashion challenge would just be another challenge IMO. I thought the side-bye-side would make it a bit more interesting.

Except that there is a very large, and vocal, part of the site that likes the photography side of it, if that makes sense.

While the "subject" doesn't appeal to me personally, I think a fashion photography challenge with expert rules, might yield some interesting results.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

01/29/2007 02:31:38 PM · #6

Originally posted by karmat:

I'm not speaking/suggesting as a proponent of the editing, or an opponent of it. But as Expert is in "test" phase, might as well experiment with it. It is what it is, I don't think that doing this would suddenly mean that DPC is pushing to digitally perfect models (thought many do already) as a matte of course, but this would just be a further eye-opener on what digital alterations can do to the human body.

I think included in this is still the spirit of the site, and to make the final product photographic in nature. Being able to edit photo-realistically is part of the challenge.

Ah, well, it was just an idea.

thegrandwazoo

Nikon D750

01/29/2007 02:35:01 PM · #7

I like the idea! And the term "Photographic in nature" is a joke and means nothing.

01/29/2007 02:40:06 PM · #8

Originally posted by wavelength:

Make a side by side, before and after comparison of a portrait showing the effects of digital editing to make an "ordinary" model look extraordinary.

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Dove Film

I think it is awesome that you can watch that Dove campaign video and come up with something so completely contrary to the message it is trying to promote.

Canon EF 28-90mm f/4-5.6 II USM (Black)

01/29/2007 02:43:07 PM · #9

Originally posted by Gordon:

I think it is awesome that you can watch that Dove campaign video and come up with something so completely contrary to the message it is trying to promote.

I think it's only contrary in your head, I was just seeing it as a study, not as a promotion. Like I already said.

What is wrong with you guys? Chill, mmkay?

Gaby_G

Canon EOS-5D

01/29/2007 02:46:09 PM · #10

Jaja a challenge like this would made very obvious what I do with my current SP submissions!!! LOL

01/29/2007 02:49:00 PM · #11

If only you guys got to see the editing that went into my Nude IV entry :-)

It's not a bad idea... personally I'd like to see what kind of processing goes into some of these awe-inspiring portraits that win challenges here.

01/29/2007 03:03:59 PM · #12

Originally posted by wavelength:

I think it's only contrary in your head, I was just seeing it as a study, not as a promotion. Like I already said.

What is wrong with you guys? Chill, mmkay?

Well, given that their whole theme is that that sort of editing is damaging to self esteem and should be rejected completely, I don't think it's just in my head.

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Nikon

01/29/2007 03:11:29 PM · #13

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by wavelength:

I think it's only contrary in your head, I was just seeing it as a study, not as a promotion. Like I already said.

What is wrong with you guys? Chill, mmkay?

Well, given that their whole theme is that that sort of editing is damaging to self esteem and should be rejected completely, I don't think it's just in my head.

It's not a campaign to abolish editing, it's a campaign to increase awareness, which this challenge would also do. You can't stop re-touching, but you can educate young women about how altered fashion photographs really are. So, in my head, I see this as having nothing to do with detracting or going against Dove's campaign.

The more girls see reality vs. photoshopped, the more it will help.

Do you get it yet?

Greetmir

Nikon D60

01/29/2007 03:14:48 PM · #14

Well ... here is my answer to those that think post editing is almost like cheating and has not much of a place in photography. This is an example of an on-camera flash shot that this girl really liked from Christmas. But, since then ... she has gotten her teeth fixed and whitened and would like the photo to portray that ... not to mention the horrible red-eye!

This is a close-up of what I did for her. I don't think there is much negative about what I did.

Sorry ... give me a couple minutes to bring the resolution and size down.

Message edited by author 2007-01-29 15:20:30.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

01/29/2007 03:17:17 PM · #15

Originally posted by wavelength:

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by wavelength:

I think it's only contrary in your head, I was just seeing it as a study, not as a promotion. Like I already said.

What is wrong with you guys? Chill, mmkay?

Well, given that their whole theme is that that sort of editing is damaging to self esteem and should be rejected completely, I don't think it's just in my head.

It's not a campaign to abolish editing, it's a campaign to increase awareness, which this challenge would also do. You can't stop re-touching, but you can educate young women about how altered fashion photographs really are. So, in my head, I see this as having nothing to do with detracting or going against Dove's campaign.

The more girls see reality vs. photoshopped, the more it will help.

Do you get it yet?

Actually, their campaign is about trying to undistort our view of beauty. It is partly about education on how distorted these images are but mostly about trying to stop people distorting them in the first place. Though really their campaign is about selling more product, but that's a different discussion.

If you want people to appreciate beauty for what is, suggesting a challenge based on the idea of showing off how much you can distort it seems like well, a bit of a distortion of the original idea.

If you wanted a challenge based on the Dove commercials, a better way to go might be completely non-touched up images. If you watched their video and thought 'cool, I wish I knew how to do that' I think they failed to communicate their message very well.

Their site goes in to it a whole lot more than the little video clip does.

Message edited by author 2007-01-29 15:18:30.

thegrandwazoo

Nikon D750

01/29/2007 03:19:25 PM · #16

Sounds like to me you both are saying the same thing but Gordon does not like the challenge idea.

01/29/2007 03:23:04 PM · #17

These two images are of the same model. One is advanced editing the other is basic. Even at DPC a LOT of editing goes on.

This challenge idea would offer a LOT of insight as to how far editing goes even at this level.

I would advise a special rule requiring the side by side comparison.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/29/2007 03:23:17 PM · #18

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Sounds like to me you both are saying the same thing but Gordon does not like the challenge idea.

Well, put it another way. Their campaign is to try to raise self-esteem for women, in the face of a world made 'more beautiful' by photoshop.

How does taking a picture of a woman, doing your best to improve her in every possible way and then post the before and after to the world, help that campaign mission, or that particular woman's self-esteem ? Particularly stated as taking a picture of an 'ordinary' person and make them look 'extra-ordinary'

I don't like or dislike the challenge idea, I just think it is a fairly twisted rendition to link it to the Dove campaign.

Message edited by author 2007-01-29 15:25:17.

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

01/29/2007 03:24:10 PM · #19

If you are going to do an editing centric challenge then have a pool of - say - 5 images that can be chosen (or 1 even but might be a bit limiting). Those images would be stored somewhere in high-res with neutral settings. Then you could compare the editing between different people.

thegrandwazoo

Nikon D750

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

01/29/2007 03:26:20 PM · #20

See my take on what Steve is saying is that if more girls see the manipulations take place they will see that they are trying to live up to make believe. The plain fact is that they can't and if they see this distortion of reality maybe they won't continue down the road of impossibility just like the Dove campaign. That is how I read what Steve is saying.

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Nikon

01/29/2007 03:28:44 PM · #21

Originally posted by Gordon:

How does taking a picture of a woman, doing your best to improve her in every possible way and then post the before and after to the world, help that campaign mission, or that particular woman's self-esteem ? Particularly stated as taking a picture of an 'ordinary' person and make them look 'extra-ordinary'

Isn't that exactly what the Dove video is doing?

Steve's idea is to show what is being done with Photoshop, even here on DPC.

Greetmir

Nikon D60

01/29/2007 03:32:36 PM · #22

Originally posted by Greetmir:

Well ... here is my answer to those that think post editing is almost like cheating and has not much of a place in photography. This is an example of an on-camera flash snapshot that this girl really liked from this past Christmas. But, since then ... she has gotten her teeth fixed and whitened and would like the photo to portray that ... not to mention the horrible red-eye!

This is a close-up of what I did for her. I don't think there is much negative about what I did.

Sorry ... give me a couple minutes to bring the resolution and size down.

Ok ... here is the fixed closeup and the finished product.

Comments?

Message edited by author 2007-01-29 15:34:21.

Gaby_G

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 28-90mm f/4-5.6 II USM (Black)

01/29/2007 03:33:55 PM · #23

I get both points, but I have to admit that (maybe for the first time) I agree with Gordon... Being a "victim" of photoshop editing myself, looking at how would you look if you had "less of", or "more of" doesnt make me feel good about my actual apareance (and actually I dont do A LOT of pp) it just make me more self concious about the way I look. I like the challenge idea, I just think that it doesnt agree with the Dove self esteem campaign.

Message edited by author 2007-01-29 15:35:48.

01/29/2007 03:48:39 PM · #24

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by Gordon:

How does taking a picture of a woman, doing your best to improve her in every possible way and then post the before and after to the world, help that campaign mission, or that particular woman's self-esteem ? Particularly stated as taking a picture of an 'ordinary' person and make them look 'extra-ordinary'

Isn't that exactly what the Dove video is doing?

Except the video is saying 'this is wrong, stop doing it, how did we get into this twisted,distorted view of beauty?' and the challenge idea is saying 'cool, lets do that some more'