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01/05/2007 01:59:54 PM · #126 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
hmm... Basic challenges... Advanced Challenges... Expert Challenges...
Seems like there is a little everything for everyone. Why can't we be happy?
If you fear expert leaking into other challenges, there is that button you can press 'rules violation' and score it below average.
What exactly is the Big deal with offering something new that people obviously want. There was a fair number of entries.
Please, tell me exactly what the problem is because I sure don't understand it. |
What exactly is the Big deal with people offering dissenting opinions? The people who want digital extravaganza are getting it, why can't you be happy? I think it's interesting that out one side of the mouth (not yours specifically) comes statements about how important it is to provide for everyone and out the other comes demands that anyone whose opinion is different to please shut up.
So, why isn't it okay for people to not like what's going on? I sure don't understand that.
Message edited by author 2007-01-05 14:01:15.
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01/05/2007 02:05:20 PM · #127 |
Originally posted by mk:
So, why isn't it okay for people to not like what's going on? I sure don't understand that. |
Because from my understanding these people who don't like it are purposely voting it low, when they don't even have to look at it.
No one is being forced to do anything, they don't have to enter, they don't have to vote, they don't have to comment.
Yet, they do...
Why???? This is what my beef is about it. Ya know, if they complained and whatever, fine, but they are hurting the rest of us who do like it.
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01/05/2007 02:07:51 PM · #128 |
| I think that digital photography is not real photography, and we should really be using film. black and white, of course. we can send in our entries, a book can be printed with the submissions, sent out for everyone to vote on, you send in the books, the votes and comments are transcribed, and results mailed out. membership fees may need to go up a little, but i think this is the best way to ensure that it remains true to the origins of photography. |
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01/05/2007 02:17:00 PM · #129 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
[quote=mk] Because from my understanding these people who don't like it are purposely voting it low, when they don't even have to look at it.
No one is being forced to do anything, they don't have to enter, they don't have to vote, they don't have to comment.
Yet, they do...
Why???? This is what my beef is about it. Ya know, if they complained and whatever, fine, but they are hurting the rest of us who do like it. |
True, no one is being forced to do anything. People who don't like the new rules don't have to vote or comment and people who don't like the votes and comments they get, don't have to enter. Anything you submit under any set of rules is subject to whomever happens to vote at the time. You don't get to request that people who don't like your photo/topic/subject/processing, etc., don't vote. That's not how judging works.
If this sort of thing is really such a rockin' good time as BradP claims, then a brief comment or two like Gordon's shouldn't make a difference. I think it's fine to campaign for the addition of things that will make more people happy but to campaign for the addition and demand that goddammit, everyone WILL like it or shut the hell up just doesn't seem quite right.
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01/05/2007 02:27:57 PM · #130 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
Why???? This is what my beef is about it. Ya know, if they complained and whatever, fine, but they are hurting the rest of us who do like it. |
Well why do you ever vote below a 10 on any image in any challenge ? Because you have an opinion on if its good or bad ? Are we supposed to all loose any sense of discrimination just because its 'Expert' editing ?
There are plenty of things I want to do to my photographs that are illegal under advanced editing, that doesn't mean cutting out little moons or sticking unicorns and dolphins under rainbows (sorry if I've given away your next entry, Mk)
So if I'm interested and want to vote in expert editing, I have to use a scale of what, 8 to 10 ? 5 to 10 ? Its just the same anti-opinion / pro-groupthink nonsense that gets rolled out anyone doesn't recognise someone's great art.
Message edited by author 2007-01-05 14:29:07.
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01/05/2007 02:29:30 PM · #131 |
Originally posted by mk:
...Anything you submit under any set of rules is subject to whomever happens to vote at the time. You don't get to request that people who don't like your photo/topic/subject/processing, etc., don't vote. That's not how judging works... |
We could split into voting factions. There could be the Plausible Guerillas and the Fantastical Guerillas. Each group could give one's or ten's to the entries that fit the purposes of their group. What would be a good name for the group who doesn't care?
Message edited by author 2007-01-05 14:30:25.
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01/05/2007 02:30:11 PM · #132 |
Originally posted by asimchoudhri:
I think that digital photography is not real photography, and we should really be using film. black and white, of course. we can send in our entries, a book can be printed with the submissions, sent out for everyone to vote on, you send in the books, the votes and comments are transcribed, and results mailed out. membership fees may need to go up a little, but i think this is the best way to ensure that it remains true to the origins of photography. |
Luckily that was covered in the first version of the rules.
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01/05/2007 02:38:27 PM · #133 |
I personally like the Expert rule set. If you look at photographers like Scott Mutter and Jerry Uelsmann, their shots would ribbon for the expert challenges every time and no one would say that their work is not "photographic in nature". Of course, they did their work in the dark room and not the digital darkroom but I still think that there is room here for those types of images.
I do agree however, that images where the camera isn't involved or isn't the primary tool for the creation of the piece don't belong here. On another Photographhy website I used to frequent, people would create images in Bryce (a 3d modelling program) and submit them. First off they were NOT photos whatsoever. Secondly, they weren't even that good as 3d images. Yet the users their raved about wonderful they were. That was a big reason why I left that site and came here. This site is dedicated to the Art of Digital Photography with the emphasis being photography.
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01/05/2007 02:40:06 PM · #134 |
Originally posted by mk:
If this sort of thing is really such a rockin' good time as BradP claims, then a brief comment or two like Gordon's shouldn't make a difference. |
Oh yes, this was the most fun I've had in 30+ years...
Come on mk, no need to twist things.
It was a fun project. For those that enjoyed stretching their wings a bit, great. No one should have their viewpoints hushed and the freedom of speech and expression is a very core issue that should never be shoved down someone's throat. A few members have voiced their opinions on the whole issue, and I think it's great. If we all thought the same about everything, it would be a boring world.
But.
Voice the opinion without a premeditated voting scheme to knock down anything not in their tolerance. Is it really any different than voting patterns that we are told that the site monitors to make sure things aren't being padded one way or another lke buddy voting?
During the challenge, I was really happy and proud based on the comments, favs and score. Now? I just as soon it disappear.
bye.
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01/05/2007 02:47:22 PM · #135 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Voice the opinion without a premeditated voting scheme to knock down anything not in their tolerance. Is it really any different than voting patterns that we are told that the site monitors to make sure things aren't being padded one way or another lke buddy voting?
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It looks there might be one person who did that. Not exactly a huge ground swell, is it ? Seems like a valid form of expression too, so I'm glad you support TooCool in his voting. Though actually if you take the time to read his comments, he gave glowing reviews to several of the very edited images.
Many people have explained their convoluted ways of deciding what 'good' and 'bad' mean - why does it bother you so much that someone seems to put 'fantasy collage' at the 'bad' end ? That seems just as valid as the many people who seem to put 'blurry' at the bad end, or 'flower' or 'child' come to that, or 'out of focus' or 'gross' or 'USA flag'
Isn't how you vote the quintessential way to express an opinion, at least in the mostly democratic Western world ? Why shouldn't people vote the way they feel, to express their opinion ? If all their votes were 1s and 2s, those get thrown away - so they must have voted in a somewhat fair way, to remain.
Message edited by author 2007-01-05 15:02:09.
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01/05/2007 02:55:35 PM · #136 |
Originally posted by mk:
Anything you submit under any set of rules is subject to whomever happens to vote at the time. You don't get to request that people who don't like your photo/topic/subject/processing, etc., don't vote. That's not how judging works. |
Umm DUH!
What I am saying is If you are against it, you most likely are not the best person to judge it. If you know you are tired of looking at flower images.. DON'T VOTE on them. Because you can not be subjective enough to give the vote it may or may not deserve.
If, you go into a challenge with a negative attitude towards the topic or editing style, you are not being fair. You should take it upon yourself to not vote not view not comment.
It is rediculous to attentional go into somewhere and start bad mouthing everything because you don't like it. Um, Hello?
How about you stop twisting everything into an abscure direction and take a breath.
Anybody can have an opinion... Yes,
You can choose to vote or comment... Yes,
But, going in with a negative mindset makes you look... like a Bigot for lack of a better term. Be the Bigger man... Know you don't care for the subject or editing level and DON'T VOTE...or Comment. Because you are not adding anything except your personal bias, which to me is differnt than personal opinion.
Lets say for instance... keeping with the flower theme. If I got into the challenge knowing I am sick and tired of flower images and leave negative comments on nearly all of them and vote lower than my average given.. I am WRONG.
It may be your opinion you dislike flower images, but it is not your right to bag on everyone elses.
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01/05/2007 03:14:23 PM · #137 |
Sorry, I don't see what's obscure or twisted about anything I've posted. It seems quite logical to me that if you enter a contest, you're subjected to the opinions of the voting masses. I don't see why the expert contests should be viewed any differently.
I guess I view voting down an entire challenge because of the topic (ie. flowers) differently than I do voting down several photos in a challenge because of the way they have been edited. I'm not aware of anyone who has gone into these challenges knowing that they will hate every single picture entered. And I don't see a problem with someone commenting that they feel the editing is over the top, although people certainly seem to have a problem receiving that.
If this sort of editing is such a beneficial move for the site, then keep on keepin' on. Complaining about a few low votes or negative comments, requesting that people who don't like it just go away or taking your ball and going home at the least bit of dissention doesn't seem to do much for the movement.
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01/05/2007 03:35:41 PM · #138 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
hmm... Basic challenges... Advanced Challenges... Expert Challenges...
Seems like there is a little everything for everyone. Why can't we be happy?
If you fear expert leaking into other challenges, there is that button you can press 'rules violation' and score it below average.
What exactly is the Big deal with offering something new that people obviously want. There was a fair number of entries.
Please, tell me exactly what the problem is because I sure don't understand it. |
I mentioned "Expert" challenges impacting the others ("Basic" and "Advanced"), but not in the light you've taken it (FTR - I don't think you were responding directly to my last post). My POV was related to the general makeup of DPChallenge membership and the long-term impact. If you have a minute, take a look...
FWIW - I haven't voted on any of the "Expert" challenges, haven't submitted to them, and have no desire to. |
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01/05/2007 05:51:29 PM · #139 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by mk:
...Anything you submit under any set of rules is subject to whomever happens to vote at the time. You don't get to request that people who don't like your photo/topic/subject/processing, etc., don't vote. That's not how judging works... |
We could split into voting factions. There could be the Plausible Guerillas and the Fantastical Guerillas. Each group could give one's or ten's to the entries that fit the purposes of their group. What would be a good name for the group who doesn't care?
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Maybe we should just have one voting group and call it "Easily Deceived"? Oh wait that group already votes.
Message edited by author 2007-01-05 17:51:44. |
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01/05/2007 07:00:37 PM · #140 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
It may be your opinion you dislike flower images, but it is not your right to bag on everyone elses. |
Yes it is.
I can vote any way I want. I can tell everyone in a challenge that I think their image is terrible. My voting and my comments reflect my opinion, just as your votes and comments reflect your opinion.
Just because I don't think the way you want me to, doesn't make my opinion any less valid.
Who do you think you are, to try to tell me, or anyone else, how to vote or not vote?
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01/05/2007 07:02:57 PM · #141 |
| Ho hum...another argument...can we go BACK to discussing...not fighting. |
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01/05/2007 07:16:43 PM · #142 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by littlegett:
It may be your opinion you dislike flower images, but it is not your right to bag on everyone elses. |
Yes it is.
I can vote any way I want. I can tell everyone in a challenge that I think their image is terrible. My voting and my comments reflect my opinion, just as your votes and comments reflect your opinion.
Just because I don't think the way you want me to, doesn't make my opinion any less valid.
Who do you think you are, to try to tell me, or anyone else, how to vote or not vote? |
again someone missing the point. But, on the same turn it tells me everything I need to know about your character, and IMO its nothing to be proud of.
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01/05/2007 07:56:03 PM · #143 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by littlegett:
It may be your opinion you dislike flower images, but it is not your right to bag on everyone elses. |
Yes it is.
I can vote any way I want. I can tell everyone in a challenge that I think their image is terrible. My voting and my comments reflect my opinion, just as your votes and comments reflect your opinion.
Just because I don't think the way you want me to, doesn't make my opinion any less valid.
Who do you think you are, to try to tell me, or anyone else, how to vote or not vote? |
again someone missing the point. But, on the same turn it tells me everything I need to know about your character, and IMO its nothing to be proud of. |
You know nothing of me.
Perhaps, if you could articulate your point clearly, it would not continually be "missed".
If, somehow, you are suggesting that because I dislike flower images, I should not vote on them, then, I disagree.
All votes are, to an extent, a reflection of the voter's bias against and for certain things, whether that bias is conciously perceived or not.
Message edited by author 2007-01-05 20:24:45.
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01/05/2007 08:36:16 PM · #144 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by littlegett:
again someone missing the point. But, on the same turn it tells me everything I need to know about your character, and IMO its nothing to be proud of. |
You know nothing of me.
Perhaps, if you could articulate your point clearly, it would not continually be "missed".
If, somehow, you are suggesting that because I dislike flower images, I should not vote on them, then, I disagree.
All votes are, to an extent, a reflection of the voter's bias against and for certain things, whether that bias is conciously perceived or not. |
I think littlegett is making the point that a member who hates flower shots should not be voting in a challenge named "flowers" any more than a member who hates photomanipulation should be voting in a challenge that uses a ruleset that encourages photomanipulation. I can understand the point. And it's different from voting in a free study and scoring down flower images relative to the rest of them.
R.
Message edited by author 2007-01-05 20:38:10.
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01/05/2007 08:46:53 PM · #145 |
Well, while I can understand were many of you are coming from. It seems as if a free for all has erupted.
But, if a topic doesn't interest me or even bugs me I don't vote. Because I don't feel I am critiquing the photo well enough. Or maybe in the event I don't understand a subject, I tend to look and comment but not vote.
As for the different types of editing, I agree, if I am a firm disbeliever of any one type then why mess with it? Extreme editing happens on all types of photos, in film and in digital.
If one is up for venturing out and trying new things whether it is voting in area's that are new or viewing topics not liked before, or even in editing so be it. But, overall be objective! Think about what you are seeing, how it makes you feel, and really hold the moment.
As for my last entry, I got a healthy mixture of comments, it helped me. But I had a few that were, to me, rude and uncalled for. But hey if it made that person feel better about them self then good for them. I love the comments, and opinions, but not the put downs. I consider my votes before clicking.
Best of luck.
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01/05/2007 08:58:10 PM · #146 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by littlegett:
again someone missing the point. But, on the same turn it tells me everything I need to know about your character, and IMO its nothing to be proud of. |
You know nothing of me.
Perhaps, if you could articulate your point clearly, it would not continually be "missed".
If, somehow, you are suggesting that because I dislike flower images, I should not vote on them, then, I disagree.
All votes are, to an extent, a reflection of the voter's bias against and for certain things, whether that bias is conciously perceived or not. |
I think littlegett is making the point that a member who hates flower shots should not be voting in a challenge named "flowers" any more than a member who hates photomanipulation should be voting in a challenge that uses a ruleset that encourages photomanipulation. I can understand the point. And it's different from voting in a free study and scoring down flower images relative to the rest of them.
R. |
I disagree. If I hate flowers, why shouldn't I vote in a flower challenge?
I dislike politicians too, but I vote in political elections.
Message edited by author 2007-01-05 20:59:06.
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01/05/2007 09:00:27 PM · #147 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I disagree. If I hate flowers, why shouldn't I vote in a flower challenge?
I dislike politicians too, but I vote in political elections. |
I'm not saying I agree with the point. I'm just trying to clarify what I think was being said. I can understand the point he's making, and it is not an absurd one.
R.
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01/05/2007 09:10:32 PM · #148 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I disagree. If I hate flowers, why shouldn't I vote in a flower challenge?
I dislike politicians too, but I vote in political elections. |
I'm not saying I agree with the point. I'm just trying to clarify what I think was being said. I can understand the point he's making, and it is not an absurd one.
R. |
If someone chooses to only vote on images or subject matter that they like, that is entirely up to them. It's 100% their choice to do so.
On the other hand, it's equally justifiable to vote on images and subject matter that someone dislikes as well. Again, it's 100% up to the voter.
What is unacceptable is condemning the choice to do one or the other.
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01/05/2007 09:20:36 PM · #149 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
[
On the other hand, it's equally justifiable to vote on images and subject matter that someone dislikes as well. Again, it's 100% up to the voter.
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But can you be 100% objectionable and consider your "judgment" over your opinion from just dislike?
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01/05/2007 09:22:03 PM · #150 |
| Spaz is definitely 100% objectionable. |
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