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10/10/2002 07:04:29 AM · #76 |
| I think if folks spent all this brainpower and energy on their photography they wouldn't care what the score looked like..they would be too entranced by their own hobby of photography to take up all this accounting and lawyer stuff >:-D |
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10/10/2002 10:59:24 AM · #77 |
When I mention subjectivity, i don't mean subjects!!! I mean how the user votes based on what THEY LIKE or what they think they like. For example, a lot of the "artsy" photo on here will get low scores because people either don't get it or don't like it. A simple yes or no answer is better at scoring than 1 to 10 scale when there IS NO STANDARD in the voting process. My 1 will be different than your 1. It makes the results meaningless (the average result).
Anyway, i whatever the voting method ended up being, i'd rather see the votes other people give for my photo. That way, i can see if others on here whose work i respect give me the thumbs up or thumbs down. That's far more helpful than to get an average result. I really don't care for the rankings.
Originally posted by JohnSetzler :
In order to follow this method, I would have to say YES, I like it subjectively, or NO, I don't?
That's absurd...
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10/10/2002 12:24:10 PM · #78 |
I have two different ideas. I really like the idea of having a 5 point voting system. Perhaps there could be a compromise of sorts. If we were to use a 5 point rating system would it be easier to just vote by meaning an not number? This might eliminate the guessing game, and voter could pick the one that is more appropriate for the photograph. For example:
O = Extremely flawed work.. needs serious improvement
O = Many flaws but shows some promise with some hard work
O = Average
O = Slightly above average, but needs some additional work
O = Excellent Photo - Great Work
Did the photographer have:
subjectivity: O Yes O Undecided O NO
technical excellence: O Yes O Undecided O NO
creativity: O Yes O Undecided O NO
artistic merit: O Yes O Undecided O NO
composition: O Yes O Undecided O NO
etc...
The top portion will give a better score, and the bottom portion will allow the photographer see where his strengths and weaknesses are for their photograph.
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10/10/2002 12:25:48 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by paganini:
When I mention subjectivity, i don't mean subjects!!! I mean how the user votes based on what THEY LIKE or what they think they like. Originally posted by JohnSetzler :
[i]In order to follow this method, I would have to say YES, I like it subjectively, or NO, I don't?
That's absurd...
[/i]
Thank you ,Paganini. That was my meaning. I think John was coming from somewhere else. I'll forgive him for the "absurd" remark since he would be quite right if we were talking about the same thing.
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10/10/2002 12:31:18 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by paganini:
A simple yes or no answer is better at scoring than 1 to 10 scale when there IS NO STANDARD in the voting process. My 1 will be different than your 1. It makes the results meaningless (the average result).
If you vote the same way for everyone, the scores are affected equally, and we can accurately compare average votes. I do not agree with 'mapping' numbers to criteria either, as I may personally weigh creativity more heavily than technical aspects. I think I speak for a vast majority of the site users when I say that I don't want to see "Yes, I liked your picture" vs. "No, I didn't".
Drew |
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10/10/2002 12:47:37 PM · #81 |
But everyone votes differently with different scales and thus it makes the numerical voting scale irrelevant. The difference between 5 and 6 votes for example is very small. So a 50th place versus a 100th place would only be maybe 0.4-0.5 shift in the average. So if the guy has slightly more 6 votes versus 5, then it'll result in a 50 place shift in the ranking even though people that really like the photo might remain the same (8-10)??? That just doesnt' make sense. I'll agree if EVERYONE can vote equally in the scale, then we'll have a good resulting statistics, but that's not the case. Some people will never vote a 1, so for them, a 5 IS a 1 :) Some votes 1's more than the others given the same criteria.
This is probably why nearly all the results are of Gaussian (Normal)distribution -- it's random. if everyone votes the same criteria, well, then we would see a clear distinction between 50th and 100th place but the average shift is very tiny and almost the same distribution. But, if you just look at each photo's percentage of voters who think it's good (i.e. count 8-10 votes), then i think you'll see distinct differences between photos and results.
Either way, it's your site and you can do whatever you want with it -- i'd suggest whatever voting system that came about from this that we are allowed to see who voted what on your photo (i.e. if you want to see who voted 8-10, you should be allowed to see it after the voting is over).
Originally posted by drewmedia:
Originally posted by paganini:
[i]A simple yes or no answer is better at scoring than 1 to 10 scale when there IS NO STANDARD in the voting process. My 1 will be different than your 1. It makes the results meaningless (the average result).
If you vote the same way for everyone, the scores are affected equally, and we can accurately compare average votes. I do not agree with 'mapping' numbers to criteria either, as I may personally weigh creativity more heavily than technical aspects. I think I speak for a vast majority of the site users when I say that I don't want to see "Yes, I liked your picture" vs. "No, I didn't".
Drew[/i]
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10/10/2002 12:56:09 PM · #82 |
Pag - I disagree. If you open up everyone's vote then you run the risk of the more "sensitive" photographers "chastizing" low votes on their photos. People are not going to feel comfortable voting if someone challeges those votes. It is the photos that are being critiqued (sort of) not the voters. I can see (photographers name withheld) Emailing users asking what they thought they were doing by voting him a 1-3. By the way, if voter X votes the same way for all the shots he's voting on doesn't that even out the effect of his voting?
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10/10/2002 02:27:41 PM · #83 |
It evens out the effect of the voting for HIM, but not for each photograph because everybody votes differently on a PER PHOTO basis and thus the results is always random for that given photo. You can argue that if someone gets a 5.5 versus someone who gets a 7.5, there is an obvious bias, but you really can't argue that someone who gets a 5.5 average versus someone who gets a 6.0 that there is a distinction because it just means the one with the 6.0 average gets more 7 votes than 6 votes, even though the people who REALLY like the photo (and i rank them as 8-10) would remain the same. a 6 and 7 is really not much of a difference when you consider how people vote based on their varied voting scales.
The reason i ask to see the votes is because there are people on here whose opinion i value and so i'd like to see the votes they cast. I don't need to see every vote or the average vote because it's meaningless at this point. a 5.5 average versus a 6.0 average would result in 50 ranking differences, even though due to the randomness of the votes, it's essentially equivalent, so i'd just like to see a certain folk's vote and see what they think of the photograph, versusu just anybody on the WWW.
Now if everyone leaves comments, then there is no need for it, but i, for one, would prefer to know the votes. ANd i personally wouldn't chastize someone for giving me low votes unless he or she is the person whose vote i value, then i might ask why but i wouldn't be sending them an email demanding an explaination or else. But i suppose there are people on here who are very sensitized, that if a photo is deemed as offensive to them that they would be mad and email someone, or if they get a bad score, they would do the same. I just use my delete button on those emails :)
Originally posted by Seeker:
Pag - I disagree. If you open up everyone's vote then you run the risk of the more "sensitive" photographers "chastizing" low votes on their photos. People are not going to feel comfortable voting if someone challeges those votes. It is the photos that are being critiqued (sort of) not the voters. I can see (photographers name withheld) Emailing users asking what they thought they were doing by voting him a 1-3. By the way, if voter X votes the same way for all the shots he's voting on doesn't that even out the effect of his voting?
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