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12/29/2006 01:10:34 AM · #76 |
Just my two cents,
This site is a community in my opinion. It is a place where photographers from across the world (both pro and am), come to comptete and challenge each others skills with the digital camera. The main purpose of this site as I see it is to judge the best and worst photography that is being entered each week in the various challenges, while creating friendships and learning a few tricks of the trade.
Where do kids and families enter this issue? In fact, where does morality enter the picture?
I can understand the need of the site council to avoid certain topics due to restrictions of their host and also likely the legal requirements of certain countries. The recent nudecast had a site council member who suggested that nudity was curtailed (no genitalia for instance) due to the requirements of DPC's host, and not the taste of the council.
In light of the above I think it would be impossible to classify this site as a "family" site. I will not let my children watch me peruse photo's here due to my own conscience on the issue and due to the subject matters that sometimes come up with nudity probably being the least of my concerns.
In regards to adult content or innuendo, this is a part of life, and if technically well represented it should never be hamstrung. We are here to judge our ability to convey emotion and structure thorugh the art of film, not appeal to the moral majority or to create a disney site for the ability of children to peruse freely.
I think anyone who votes a photo poorly due to offense at the subject matter should be strung up and whipped. Repeatedly.
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12/29/2006 01:18:49 AM · #77 |
Originally posted by lkn4truth:
I think anyone who votes a photo poorly due to offense at the subject matter should be strung up and whipped. Repeatedly. |
THIS is where your argument falls apart. When considering 'art' of any kind, subjectivity is important. We don't have to like anything that 'rubs us the wrong way.' Our right brain has to be engaged as well if we intend to appreciate anything at a level beyond 'how it was done.' If we limit our voting to the technical aspects of a photo, what fun would that be? You can't begin to tell me that WHAT you see plays no role in how you interpret a photo, or vote on it for that matter.
I have seen intriguing photos of subject material that I don't like. Whether or not I like the photo depends on several things. It has to engage me at some level beyond what the subject IS. It has to make me think of something beyond what the subject IS. There must be some level of symbolism or transcendence towards something that does appeal to me. When it comes to sexual innuendo, if the subject can move beyond sex to something like LOVE, I tend to like the idea more.
Don't ever try to think that a photo should be judged, viewed, or interpreted solely on how well it was executed. That's simply BS.
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12/29/2006 01:25:10 AM · #78 |
Originally posted by lkn4truth:
Is DPC a "Family Site"? |
I think it's not.
But not a porn site either.
is nudity porn? That's subjective, but yes it is allowed in DPC. |
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12/29/2006 01:26:30 AM · #79 |
To setzler,
Touche. I agree with you that I don't judge a photo solely on it's technical merits. However, I will not slap a 1 or a 2 on a photo due to it's subject matter (which seems to be the case with some DPC'ers). I do not like Child or Flower Photo's especially, in fact, every time I see a flower photo I want to barf and ever time I see a child photo I want to tell the artist that Anne Geddes wants her style back. However, I strictly avoid voting these photos poorly. If I don't like the subject matter, I vote solely on the technical aspect so as not to harm the score of the photographer. True, if a photo strikes me emotionally I am much more likely to score it in the upper range, however, I don't want to punish people for putting in photo's that I don't have a taste for. I feel it is poor taste to do so.
Of course, whipping people might go a bit far. Perhaps paper cuts with lemon juice? LOL.
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12/29/2006 01:31:54 AM · #80 |
Originally posted by crowis:
Of course, whipping people might go a bit far. Perhaps paper cuts with lemon juice? LOL. |
of course, it depends on whether a sexy lady is doing the whipping or not :p |
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12/29/2006 02:00:42 AM · #81 |
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by crowis:
Of course, whipping people might go a bit far. Perhaps paper cuts with lemon juice? LOL. |
of course, it depends on whether a sexy lady is doing the whipping or not :p |
Crayon, quit ogling the imaginary whipping lady :-P
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12/29/2006 02:10:39 AM · #82 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by crowis:
Of course, whipping people might go a bit far. Perhaps paper cuts with lemon juice? LOL. |
of course, it depends on whether a sexy lady is doing the whipping or not :p |
Crayon, quit ogling the imaginary whipping lady :-P |
I just signed up as a member in the local "imaginary whipping lady oogling anonymous" club. I'll improve soon. Please be patient with me at the mean time :p |
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12/29/2006 06:29:22 AM · #83 |
Interesting question:
Do we want people who don't like nude images to vote on them? I know I don't, they are likely to (unfairly?) vote them low...
If someone feels strongly enough about this to check the "no nudes" box why not have nude images blocked during voting?
Of course this also pleases the parents and people who are told not to look at nudes at work.
Just a thought...
Personally I enjoy nudes and cannot think of one I have seen here that was not in good taste but find some of the images here depicting violence or drug use a little offensive and definately less suitable for viewing by children - but that is just my opinion. When voting I will penalise "unnecessary" violence - if it is purely for shock value and doen't help the image meet the challenge I may vote it down. Perefectly fair as I know others do this to my nude images...
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12/29/2006 07:37:01 AM · #84 |
Originally posted by Leok:
When voting I will penalise "unnecessary" violence - if it is purely for shock value and doen't help the image meet the challenge I may vote it down. Perefectly fair as I know others do this to my nude images... |
Just curious as to why you see this as "fair". Can you be assured that you are penalizing the people who are penalizing you? Or do you more correctly mean to say that you see it as appropriate to vote someone's picture down based on the belief that someone ELSE voted your picture down?
I just don't see how this fits in the true definition of "fair" at all.
If you want to penalize unnecessary violence, that's perfectly okay. If someone else wants to penalize unnecessary nudity, that's okay too. But let's please don't operate under the totally unfounded assumption that you are voting "each other" down. My bet is that those who make pictures with violence in them are just as likely as anyone else to vote a nude high - and maybe more so. |
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12/29/2006 06:08:00 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by nards656:
Originally posted by Leok:
When voting I will penalise "unnecessary" violence - if it is purely for shock value and doen't help the image meet the challenge I may vote it down. Perefectly fair as I know others do this to my nude images... |
Just curious as to why you see this as "fair". Can you be assured that you are penalizing the people who are penalizing you? Or do you more correctly mean to say that you see it as appropriate to vote someone's picture down based on the belief that someone ELSE voted your picture down?
I just don't see how this fits in the true definition of "fair" at all.
If you want to penalize unnecessary violence, that's perfectly okay. If someone else wants to penalize unnecessary nudity, that's okay too. But let's please don't operate under the totally unfounded assumption that you are voting "each other" down. My bet is that those who make pictures with violence in them are just as likely as anyone else to vote a nude high - and maybe more so. |
I do know what you mean, and this is why I used the word "others". To clarify: my voting is not meant to be retaliation or payback in any way. I was just trying to say that most people will vote images they find distasteful lower, but that peoples idea of distasteful varies immensely. There is probably little or no correlation between people who like or dislike nudes, and those who like or dislike violent images.
I have voted high, even 10 on some violent images when I felt it was an important part of the impact of the image and fitted the challenge well. It would be great if everyone did the same with nudity, but we have all seen comments indicating that some will vote ANY image with nudity low which is inappropriate voting IMHO. I do not have a problem with people voting unnecessary or distasteful nudity low - I would do this myself...
Message edited by author 2006-12-29 18:13:35.
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12/29/2006 06:20:18 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by Leok:
Interesting question:
If someone feels strongly enough about this to check the "no nudes" box why not have nude images blocked during voting?
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or add a check box that presents before voting asking voter if he wants to include nude images too. If he does not want they won't be shown. He won't be bothered and process goes on. |
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12/29/2006 06:30:31 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
Originally posted by Leok:
Interesting question:
If someone feels strongly enough about this to check the "no nudes" box why not have nude images blocked during voting?
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or add a check box that presents before voting asking voter if he wants to include nude images too. If he does not want they won't be shown. He won't be bothered and process goes on. |
ATM I think the idea is that people should see all the images for voting to be fair... but as you need only vote on 20% for your vote to count this does not quite make sense IMHO
Message edited by author 2006-12-29 18:31:23.
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12/29/2006 06:33:00 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by Leok:
[quote=zxaar]
ATM I think the idea is that people should see all them images for voting to be fair... but as you need only vote on 20% for your vote to count this does not quite make sense IMHO |
It does make sense because, in theory at least, you shouldn't be cherry picking your 20%, you should be voting in the order that they are presented. If we all picked our favorite 20% to vote on, the results wouldn't be very accurate.
Do we want someone who doesn't like nudes to be voting on our nude photos? Well, no. We'd all like only the people who love our images to vote on them. But that's not really a challenge then, is it? |
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12/29/2006 06:43:36 PM · #89 |
Me wonders why you see something like...350 views and 130 votes. I always vote if I view and usually view in order of download. Seems few follow this procedure.
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12/29/2006 06:47:32 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Me wonders why you see something like...350 views and 130 votes. I always vote if I view and usually view in order of download. Seems few follow this procedure. |
I'm guessing a lot of voters go back and adjust votes and comment after making their initial pases. Also, I like to thumb through and view some of the pics that strike my fancy (from the thumbs) before I begin voting.
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12/29/2006 07:04:24 PM · #91 |
I see. So each time I view the same pic it ups the ticker. Is this the case outside of the vote process too?
After my inital vote I go back thru and adjust as necessary and comment if I can. If I haven't time to do all entries I sometimes scan the rest too, and select the more interesting ones for votes. Of course I make sure the nudes get one's.........just kidding, but if I see a vulgar one.....
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12/29/2006 07:07:17 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by Leok:
[quote=zxaar]
ATM I think the idea is that people should see all them images for voting to be fair... but as you need only vote on 20% for your vote to count this does not quite make sense IMHO |
It does make sense because, in theory at least, you shouldn't be cherry picking your 20%, you should be voting in the order that they are presented. If we all picked our favorite 20% to vote on, the results wouldn't be very accurate.
Do we want someone who doesn't like nudes to be voting on our nude photos? Well, no. We'd all like only the people who love our images to vote on them. But that's not really a challenge then, is it? |
As you said in theory
In practice the only way of stopping people cherry picking is to make them vote on every image for their vote to count. I'm sure a fair percentage of people only vote on the images they like the thumbnails of. As long as we have the 20% rule I can't see the problem with letting people block nude images during voting...
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12/29/2006 07:07:33 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
I see. So each time I view the same pic it ups the ticker. Is this the case outside of the vote process too?
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Yes, if I view your pic 3 times, the views count would reflect that, no matter if I vote or not.
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12/29/2006 07:09:38 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
I see. So each time I view the same pic it ups the ticker. Is this the case outside of the vote process too?
After my inital vote I go back thru and adjust as necessary and comment if I can. If I haven't time to do all entries I sometimes scan the rest too, and select the more interesting ones for votes. Of course I make sure the nudes get one's.........just kidding, but if I see a vulgar one..... |
I make sure the nudes get 10s - unless they're not vulgar :P
Actually I vote on all images or none - don't feel its fair otherwise. The problem with this is it means I dont vote all that often...
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12/29/2006 07:41:35 PM · #95 |
Some people will vote on the technical side of a photo.
Others will vote on the content of the photo.
Others on the content as it relates to the challenge.
etc. etc.
By the time everyone votes, with all their little odd ways of voting, it should all average out I would think.
However, I was not aware that you could select only the thumbnails that you wish to vote on. That would be unfair. All voting should be across a range of photos to get you to the 20 or is it 25% or submitted photos. Selectively voting would surely have to affect the voting.
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12/29/2006 09:09:51 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by Leok:
In practice the only way of stopping people cherry picking is to make them vote on every image for their vote to count. |
No it's not -- you simply have to eliminate showing the thumbs for images on which you've not yet voted. The "cast your vote" link would take you to the next image to be voted on, not the thumbs page. Once you've voted, you can review/revise votes on those images. |
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12/29/2006 10:27:19 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Leok:
In practice the only way of stopping people cherry picking is to make them vote on every image for their vote to count. |
No it's not -- you simply have to eliminate showing the thumbs for images on which you've not yet voted. The "cast your vote" link would take you to the next image to be voted on, not the thumbs page. Once you've voted, you can review/revise votes on those images. |
What you've proposed would eliminate a fair amount of comments being left IMO. Many times I'll peruse the thumbnail page and post comments on images using the comment icon (pulls up the comment only, not voting, view of the image). If I can't see the thumbnails because I haven't voted, then I wouldn't be commenting. |
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12/29/2006 10:55:02 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Leok:
In practice the only way of stopping people cherry picking is to make them vote on every image for their vote to count. |
No it's not -- you simply have to eliminate showing the thumbs for images on which you've not yet voted. The "cast your vote" link would take you to the next image to be voted on, not the thumbs page. Once you've voted, you can review/revise votes on those images. |
What you've proposed would eliminate a fair amount of comments being left IMO. Many times I'll peruse the thumbnail page and post comments on images using the comment icon (pulls up the comment only, not voting, view of the image). If I can't see the thumbnails because I haven't voted, then I wouldn't be commenting. |
The page could easily be designed so that clicking on a thumbnail for an image gave you the image and the ability to comment, but not vote. A separate "cast your votes" link or button would take you through the images in a server-assigned order.
~Terry
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12/29/2006 11:12:08 PM · #99 |
My question is why is it important that DPC be a "family" site? I once suggested that there be a sub-site.. (ie DPCKids) that would be more kid-safe. That was met with rejection from some vocal "family" opponents.
There are filters to make this site work-safe. Still a bit buggy in that not all photos that are adult are tagged as such and some people forget the rules. But, it is mostly effective.
Really, kids shouldn't be surfing any dynamic community site (whether it be DPC or Myspace) alone. It's just not a safe practice to allow children online unmonitored?
So, work issues and parenting skills aside, why is it important that DPC be family oriented?
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12/30/2006 01:23:20 AM · #100 |
As long as there is art, there is going to be nudity, subjectivity and differences of opinion. It's just the way it goes.
If I want to go to a "family site," I'll go to NickJr.com or cartoonnetwork.com.
Like silverscreen asked - do you find Michaelangelo's David shocking and sexually explicit? Or the many images by Cezanne, Waterhouse or Klimt, just to name a few? I think artful nudes certainly have their place here and I for one, wonder why it's been almost 14 months since we've had such a challenge. I even suggested a "no frontal nudity" challenge, but figured we'd get sick of seeing nothing but behinds. ;~D |
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