Is this a SCAM ? - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

12/14/2006 08:05:58 PM · #1

Long version of a longer story...please read...you won't regret it!

Researched prices for cars on Edmonds website.
Researched 3rd party warranty online. ($1500 at 2 or 3 sites for premium package 7 year 100,000)

Went to car dealer to buy car.
Came to an agreement on price of new SUV.
Knew we wanted a 4 year deal.
Interest rate incentive is 3.9 for 4 years

Salesman out of the picture once we sat down with finance person.
Finance person worked up the note with our down payment.
Fincance person shows us the payment and asks us if we thought about the warranty.

Knowing what I could get online, I asked her the prices of theirs.
Of course she selected the premium package (but that is what I wanted)
She gave price of $2000.

I said show me my note...I advised that I didn't want that note but needed the warranty. She dropped $500 off with no question. (Now we are in to the online range)

Of course I'm looking out for myself so I hinted that that was still too much. She then fiddled with her computer and paperwork and said..."oh, look at this...I had the wrong interest rate in the system when I gave you your pricing. I have 4.9 in there. 4.9 is for the 5 year deal, you are getting the 4 year deal...let me redo this".

She plugs a new number in, then shows use a monthly note about $40 less than the original with the $1500 warranty. Caught by suprise, I said now that's much better and accepted the deal without any more haggling.

The next day I had a feeling I was "taken" or setup and that she had the higher rate in there and then sprung the correct rate when she figured we were going to keep hounding her over the warranty price. (It worked b/c we stopped the haggle when we saw the new note). I felt "taken" but not much...I got a fair deal IMO but felt she may have been playing games with the rate.

Well here is where it gets bizzare....

9 days after we have been in the car my wife gets a call from the finance lady. She says she plugged in the wrong interest rate and we are in the car at 2.9% instead of 3.9%. She wanted us to come in and redo the deal with the correct rate whice would raise my monthly payment by $14 ! My wife called me and I told her to not speak with the finance lady and if she calls back to refer her to me.

IMO, I feel I am not obligated to go back in to raise my monthly payment. I feel this would be the same as me going back in two days after purchase and saying, "I thought I agreed to a $400/month note" even though my paperwork says $414/month..."can you redo the deal to decrease my note by $14?" IMO I would have been laughed out of the place !

What do you think?

Curious

Canon EOS-600D/T3i Rebel

12/14/2006 08:13:47 PM · #2

I agree with you. You both came to a deal in a calm and reasonable manner. Its been signed and sealed. She needs top move on to the next customer.

What you lose on the swings, you make up on the slides :)

Nikon D200

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

12/14/2006 08:20:27 PM · #3

Mistakes in contracts are almost always resolved against the party that wrote the contract. She had the expertise, she made the offer, you accepted it, The End.

You got a signed deal, there's nothing either one of you can do now. Just tell her "Oh sorry, but I signed the deal and I now feel obligated to fulfill it." :)

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

12/14/2006 08:22:16 PM · #4

If they screwed up the interest rate in your favor and want to redo the deal, you can:

1. Tell them that as far as you're concerned, the deal is done.

2. Ask them what they're willing to give you for your hassle and additional cost. Since the extra $14/mo over the 48 months is $672, get something worth at least that much to you.

3. If they are jerks about it, tell them the deal is off, give them back their vehicle and take every penny with you.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM II

12/14/2006 08:57:43 PM · #5

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

PhotoDave

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

12/14/2006 09:09:29 PM · #6

If you have a signed contract with your sig and their sig then they don't have a leg to stand on, its the same if they had the higher rate on the contract and you notice it a couple days later and 9 out of 10 they would turn around and say you signed the contract and should have read it before signing. At this point its leagaly binding on BOTH sides.

-dave

Baron152

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

12/14/2006 09:11:51 PM · #7

I don't know where you are from but in the State of Florida, once the papers are signed, only you get a 3 day chance to recind the deal. They must honor the deal.

She took $600+ dollars out of the salesmans pocket and wants you to give it back because the salesman id bustin balls. At least in Florida you would be free and clear.

Bout time someone screwed a car salesman. How's it feel to be one in a billion?

Nikon D200

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

12/14/2006 09:12:47 PM · #8

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Since the extra $14/mo over the 48 months is $672, get something worth at least that much to you.

Actually, the present value of a $14 payment at 2.9% interest over 48 months is only $634, but close enough.

If my math is correct, it sounds like she's also trying to increase the loan amount (or duration) as well as the interest rate.

$18,125 loan at 2.9% interest for 48 months = payment of $400.38
$18,125 loan at 3.9% interest for 48 months = payment of $408.43

To get a payment of $414 for 48 months, then a couple of variables would have to change... Either an additional charge of about $250 to make a $18,732 loan amount at 3.9% for 48 months or she is prorating a few weeks off the term.

HTH

Hye5

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

12/14/2006 09:13:25 PM · #9

Once the agreement is signed, you have a contract. A claimed mistake by the party drafting the contract (or providing a pre-printed form) will not be sufficient to rescind it. They would spend a great deal of money in vain if they were to pursue it legally. You are obligated to do nothing at this point. The $672 hardly seems worth more headache in starting over and re-negotiation.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

12/14/2006 09:31:39 PM · #10

Originally posted by kenskid:

I thought about the $672 but feel if I go in and tear up a contract...she lowers price by $672 and increases my note but $14 then I get nothing for the trouble....(I'm not looking for anything...I just want to call it "even" as is)

In addition...some friends say to check with the motor credit division in a week or two to make sure the rate is what was on the deal and not the "increased" rate. That may make sense.

Skid

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
If they screwed up the interest rate in your favor and want to redo the deal, you can:

1. Tell them that as far as you're concerned, the deal is done.

2. Ask them what they're willing to give you for your hassle and additional cost. Since the extra $14/mo over the 48 months is $672, get something worth at least that much to you.

3. If they are jerks about it, tell them the deal is off, give them back their vehicle and take every penny with you.

Then it seems option 1 is best for you.

I was suggesting that you try to get soemthing that would both make up for the additional out of pocket expense AND compensate you for being a pain in your butt. Something in the $1000 - $1500 range would be a good start. You could always ask for good old cash and buy a lens.

12/14/2006 09:40:50 PM · #11

Yes...I felt that $1000 to $1500 would be fair. As far as I can tell from the Edmunds car site, I feel I paid from $1000 to $2000 over what could be deturmined an "invoice" price. With that said, I think we paid about $3500 to $4000 off the sticker price...I'd have to pull my sticker out of the glove box to be certian...

However, I'm happy with the original deal but would not be happy if it were to go $14 higher per month...

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by kenskid:
I thought about the $672 but feel if I go in and tear up a contract...she lowers price by $672 and increases my note but $14 then I get nothing for the trouble....(I'm not looking for anything...I just want to call it "even" as is)

In addition...some friends say to check with the motor credit division in a week or two to make sure the rate is what was on the deal and not the "increased" rate. That may make sense.

Skid

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
If they screwed up the interest rate in your favor and want to redo the deal, you can:

1. Tell them that as far as you're concerned, the deal is done.

2. Ask them what they're willing to give you for your hassle and additional cost. Since the extra $14/mo over the 48 months is $672, get something worth at least that much to you.

3. If they are jerks about it, tell them the deal is off, give them back their vehicle and take every penny with you.

Then it seems option 1 is best for you.

I was suggesting that you try to get soemthing that would both make up for the additional out of pocket expense AND compensate you for being a pain in your butt. Something in the $1000 - $1500 range would be a good start. You could always ask for good old cash and buy a lens.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/16/2006 09:43:15 PM · #12

Just a bump to get a few more opinions !

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

12/16/2006 09:51:46 PM · #13

I agree that you have no obligation to do anything more for them. The only thing to consider is whether you'll be using that dealership for service or free oil changes. They might be inclined to make up their losses on you later. Just be certain that your paperwork is as agreed.

Nobody

Pentax K-S2

Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG APO IF for Pentax

12/16/2006 11:05:08 PM · #14

The timing is a bit odd, but it sounds like a bait-and-switch operation. I would kindly tell them no.

Legitimate businesses wouldn't try to renegotiate a signed contract. This is just too odd sounding.

annasense

Olympus E-500 EVOLT

Olympus 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 Zuiko Digital ED

12/16/2006 11:22:37 PM · #15

Yeah, I think it's a done deal... I had a similar circumstance when I signed up with Cingular (a lot less money was at stake, of course). The contract didn't have an activation fee on there, but they billed me for one. I called the salesman, and he said they always charge an activation fee... but that he must have just forgotten to check the box... and that I would have to pay. Believing that this was a negotiable rate (having sold cell phones in the past) that probably went directly into the salesman's pocket, I called Cingular customer service. They had me fax in the contract, verified that it was a valid contract, and they took the activation fee off my bill. I don't think you'll have any trouble getting your way.

Message edited by author 2006-12-16 23:22:58.

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

12/16/2006 11:35:32 PM · #16

I believe that the finance manager made an error in your favor and should not call you about it, the dealer should absorb the difference.
BUT
In some states such as here the contract that you signed is valid upon acceptance by the finance company, not the finance manager of the dealership. They have up to 14 to 29 days to call off the deal for any credit reason. A mistake in the interest rate would be a credit reason.

Make sure you read your contract and every piece of paper you signed and see if you initialed or signed anything that pertains to that clause.

IMO this clause is a bad. It gives the credit company time to check for errors or omissions but does not give the buyer equal opportunity to the same.

Message edited by author 2006-12-16 23:36:28.

pjangel

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/17/2006 12:58:10 AM · #17

I am a finance manager and have been for about 15 years. If the rate is incorrect on the contract you do not have to resign. However, in most states, the bank has the final say as to the rate and term. So if you choose not to resign at the higher rate the deal would be null and void. There may be a couple of options, you can ask the dealer to reduce the price by the additional amount you would be paying over the term of the loan or take the vehicle back and tell them that you won't resign. It's the end of the year and most dealers will do whatever they can to sell a car right now. Good Luck!

mist

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

12/17/2006 03:43:29 AM · #18

IMO you totally have the upper hand at this point. Your contrace is signed and sealed at the lower rate. If they have botched up their side, then they need to sort that out internally. ( Incidentally, the 3rd party shouldn't be contacting you at all, you're not their customer, but that's by the by).

I would make no offer to do anything. At this time of year, sales in cars would be pretty low, and the dealers should be really stretching out to make a sale. This works in your favour, especially if their only recourse for this mistake is to say that they will have to cancel.

If they aren't about to offer you anything to make up the difference, something of tangible lasting value, then stick to the contract as-is.

If they do offer something, then maybe consider re-negotiating, but get it drawn up again, and make sure to kick them for something else just before signing. (As they must want to keep the sale)

If they say they can't honour it as-is and wont make up the difference, then either seek legal advice, or tell them to shove it because you'll be able to get a better deal somewhere else. It may help to research the better deal.

12/17/2006 10:14:55 AM · #19

We did sign a paper that gives finance 25 days or 'we will have to return the car, with NO payment or obligation and receive our trade-in and downpayment back. I read that sheet when signing. At this point, I don't think they will ask for the car back. The few hundred that makes up the error is not worth a new car having 600 miles on it when returned.

Originally posted by Southern Gentleman:

bigalpha

Sony DSC-S60

12/17/2006 10:44:21 AM · #20

Hey, where is this dealership?

In Nashville, there is a dealership that has been doing all sorts of bait and switch tactics for years; Jim Reed.

1. They take your car in as trade
2. Finance you a new car
3. A week later, tell you the financing stuff is messed up, so you either have to pay more, or return the car
4. BUT, they've already sold your trade in.

There has been a big hubbub about it recently, as they doing this non-stop.

Just wondering if it was them.