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12/13/2006 05:51:16 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
How is this value skewed if you don't vote on all of the entries? What if you only vote on half, or the 20% minimum? |
I'm not sure that its skewed. Since you are only comparing your top 10 votes against the challenge field, only the relationship of your particular votes to the actual placement of the photos is meaningful.
I devised this because I felt that I was really out of sync with the voting results -- and I generally am by this measure. I've looked at the challenge entries with different monitors but couldn't see any obvious correlation even though the images looked considerably differnt on different monitors. I've looked at the voting on the high placed finishers to see if there was any unusual patterns but didn't find any correlations so, I've concluded that I'm just out of step with the majority of members, and wondered how many others felt they were also. Needed a "quantitative" measure that others could use and came up with this. Note--when I vote on a challenge I do try to vote on all entries; I don't believe I vote any differently on challenges I've entered and those I haven't. |
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12/13/2006 05:54:02 PM · #27 |
Wow...for Bond, I ended up with 3.43
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12/13/2006 05:57:43 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by cryingdragon:
Wow...for Bond, I ended up with 3.43 |
That's great! For some reason, Bond was my best correlation with the winners in about 4 months! |
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12/13/2006 06:32:00 PM · #29 |
also, this was the first challenge this year that I didn't get any ones.
Pandering to the voters works so well!
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12/13/2006 06:37:08 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by cryingdragon:
Wow...for Bond, I ended up with 3.43 |
Is there a new stat I'm not aware of or did you figure out that average yourself?
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12/13/2006 06:50:46 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by nidici:
... I felt that I was really out of sync with the voting results -- and I generally am by this measure... |
Is it important to shift your opinion to that of the norm?
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12/13/2006 08:56:30 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by nidici:
... I felt that I was really out of sync with the voting results -- and I generally am by this measure... |
Is it important to shift your opinion to that of the norm? |
No--but if it helps me post better scores on my photos then it is important, because I'd like to take pictures that I'm proud of and that other people like. |
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12/13/2006 09:09:25 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by nidici:
... I felt that I was really out of sync with the voting results -- and I generally am by this measure... |
Is it important to shift your opinion to that of the norm? |
Very good point! |
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12/13/2006 09:27:08 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by nidici:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by nidici:
... I felt that I was really out of sync with the voting results -- and I generally am by this measure... |
Is it important to shift your opinion to that of the norm? |
No--but if it helps me post better scores on my photos then it is important, because I'd like to take pictures that I'm proud of and that other people like. |
So, you are more interested in changing what you say with your pictures to what people want to hear than in speaking with your own voice.
In short, you want to be a visual "yes man".
Message edited by author 2006-12-13 21:27:47. |
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12/13/2006 10:23:19 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
I'm one of those trolls people keep talking about.
Looking at my life voting, my top 10 votes include the images that finished at 161st & 151st |
do you happen to be a mac user?
they usually "think different" :p
(but then again, maybe it's just because of the difference in Gamma.
you mac screens get 1.8 while we windows chaps get 2.2)
Message edited by author 2006-12-13 22:23:56. |
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12/13/2006 10:25:50 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by Gordon:
I'm one of those trolls people keep talking about.
Looking at my life voting, my top 10 votes include the images that finished at 161st & 151st |
do you happen to be a mac user?
they usually "think different" :p
(but then again, maybe it's just because of the difference in Gamma.
you mac screens get 1.8 while we windows chaps get 2.2) |
bit of everything but no, I don't currently have a mac.
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12/13/2006 10:31:51 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
bit of everything but no, I don't currently have a mac. |
you're just weird :p |
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12/13/2006 11:03:48 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by Gordon:
bit of everything but no, I don't currently have a mac. |
you're just weird :p |
This coming from one of the weirdest on the site? :P
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12/14/2006 09:30:35 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by nidici:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Is it important to shift your opinion to that of the norm? |
No--but if it helps me post better scores on my photos then it is important, because I'd like to take pictures that I'm proud of and that other people like. |
So, you are more interested in changing what you say with your pictures to what people want to hear than in speaking with your own voice.
In short, you want to be a visual "yes man". |
I think this may be a bit harsh, but I agree with the sentiment. So what if you vote differently to the norm? Doesn't mean your votes are any less valid. If a shot receives mostly 7s and 8s, but you think it's a 3 or a 4, that's perfectly acceptable. IMHO the best thing to do in that circumstance is to say why you think it's only a 3. That's much more helpful than sitting there thinking there's something wrong with the way you vote.
Cheers
Buzzy
Message edited by author 2006-12-14 09:31:00. |
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12/14/2006 09:46:13 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by nidici:
Here's a useful exercise to see how far out of sync you are with the voting. Sort the challenge results by how you voted. Add up the places of the first 10 finishers by the way you voted (usally the first screen of results) and devide by 55 (which is the sum of 1 to 10). If the result is 1, then your top ten votes went to the actual top 10 finishers (not necessarily in the same order). The more away from 1 your number is, the more out of sync you are with the actual voting.
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This method is flawed because of a sort order problem that puts top placers first in "order by my vote." Example: I didn't finish voting on Landscape in Portrait so I have a ton of 6's (what I give photos I like when sorting on first voting pass) on the first three pages and though they all have 6's they are sorted secondarily by their placement in the challenge. So my deviation for that challenge would be 1.4 (from the order of 5th place, 25th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd....) In other words, if your top score is mostly of one kind of vote, be it 6's or 8's or 10's, then you'll always be closer to 1 because after your votes are sorted they are then sorted by challenge placement. |
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12/14/2006 02:27:40 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by nidici:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by nidici:
... I felt that I was really out of sync with the voting results -- and I generally am by this measure... |
Is it important to shift your opinion to that of the norm? |
No--but if it helps me post better scores on my photos then it is important, because I'd like to take pictures that I'm proud of and that other people like. |
So, you are more interested in changing what you say with your pictures to what people want to hear than in speaking with your own voice.
In short, you want to be a visual "yes man". |
There is no value in having something to say if the audience does not understand it. The burden of communication is solely on the one wanting to communicate -- not the one they want to communicate with.
There is no value in being misunderstood.
David
the most misunderstood person I know :/ |
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12/14/2006 02:46:37 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by David.C:
There is no value in having something to say if the audience does not understand it. The burden of communication is solely on the one wanting to communicate -- not the one they want to communicate with.
There is no value in being misunderstood.
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There's no value in not paying attention either. What you say makes it sound like it is only important to talk, not to listen.
Try a university for example, the burden of communication is entirely on the ones wanting to learn not on those wanting to teach.
Communication is a two way street.
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12/14/2006 03:11:52 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by David.C:
There is no value in having something to say if the audience does not understand it. The burden of communication is solely on the one wanting to communicate -- not the one they want to communicate with.
There is no value in being misunderstood.
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There's no value in not paying attention either. What you say makes it sound like it is only important to talk, not to listen.
Try a university for example, the burden of communication is entirely on the ones wanting to learn not on those wanting to teach.
Communication is a two way street. |
I made no mention of the direction of flow in the communication.
At a university both parties, teacher and student, are there to communicate -- only the direction of flow differs. They have already agreed to their respective roles and subject of conversation.
It's not the same as walking up to someone and getting them to listen to what you have to say (or to tell you something you want to hear). There is no obligation to stop what they are doing and listen (speak).
Saying something with a photograph (even if it's just 'look at me') is closer to the second than to university. The viewer is under no obligation to look -- or to search for hidden greatness if they do glance at it.
There is the matter of receptiveness. But once the image has been looked at, if the photographers message is not understood it is the photographer that failed to communicate -- not the viewer. The viewer did their part by looking.
David |
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12/14/2006 03:35:58 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by David.C:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by nidici:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by nidici:
... I felt that I was really out of sync with the voting results -- and I generally am by this measure... |
Is it important to shift your opinion to that of the norm? |
No--but if it helps me post better scores on my photos then it is important, because I'd like to take pictures that I'm proud of and that other people like. |
So, you are more interested in changing what you say with your pictures to what people want to hear than in speaking with your own voice.
In short, you want to be a visual "yes man". |
There is no value in having something to say if the audience does not understand it. The burden of communication is solely on the one wanting to communicate -- not the one they want to communicate with.
There is no value in being misunderstood.
David
the most misunderstood person I know :/ |
I never suggested the audience would not understand an image. That's not the issue.
These are my questions:
Why is it important to vote like everyone else?
Why should I subjugate my opinion (vote) to the group's?
Why is diversity of opinion a bad thing?
Why would an artist place their own vision behind making an image that simply appeals to everyone else, but reflects little or nothing of their own vision?
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12/14/2006 04:28:24 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by David.C:
There is the matter of receptiveness. But once the image has been looked at, if the photographers message is not understood it is the photographer that failed to communicate -- not the viewer. The viewer did their part by looking.
David |
So how many people have to get it ? One person ? Everyone ?
There's a responsibility on the viewer to be visually literate as well.
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12/14/2006 04:43:32 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by David.C:
There is the matter of receptiveness. But once the image has been looked at, if the photographers message is not understood it is the photographer that failed to communicate -- not the viewer. The viewer did their part by looking.
David |
So, should all images should cater to the lowest common denominator, the visually illiterate?
That's like saying all books should be written for 3 year olds.
Message edited by author 2006-12-14 16:44:04. |
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12/14/2006 04:57:20 PM · #47 |
That's the stock market though, isn't it ?
Simple messages. Big, bold. Words of one syllable. Easy to read.
Happy.
Sad.
Fun.
Buy me.
Message edited by author 2006-12-14 16:57:41.
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12/14/2006 05:20:46 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Words of one syllable. Easy ... |
By that definition "easy" is hard ... : ) |
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12/14/2006 05:38:42 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by David.C:
There is the matter of receptiveness. But once the image has been looked at, if the photographers message is not understood it is the photographer that failed to communicate -- not the viewer. The viewer did their part by looking.
David |
So, should all images should cater to the lowest common denominator, the visually illiterate?
That's like saying all books should be written for 3 year olds. |
That depends...is your question about all images or just all images in a challenge that's voted by a worldwide audience which requires no sort of qualification? |
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12/14/2006 05:44:20 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Words of one syllable. Easy ... |
By that definition "easy" is hard ... : ) |
I said easy to read, not easy to write ;)
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