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10/07/2002 07:09:50 PM · #51 |
To get back to the photo, I am a Christian, and I get tired of the insults and the lies constantly spread about Christianity. But I have to ask, just what is the insult in this photo? I do not understand the point of this, so, I am not going to get up in arms about it.
I am all for freedom of speech, and freedom of expression, I think flag buring should be legal, but I do not think that it means that all pictures have an equal right to be displayed on this site. This is a private sight, and the administrators can ban what they see fit. There are plenty of other outlets.
Also, I think that an artist that only expresses him/herself through negativity, is not much of an artist. It is very easy to tear down what others have done, it is much harder to put your own thoughts, ideas, beliefs up for display and ridicule.
To me, someone showing a positive display of their own beliefs is not offensive, but someone creating a negative display of the beliefs of others is. I do not give the same validity to creation as I do destruction. It would be like comparing a St. Patricks day celebration to a Klan rally. |
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10/07/2002 07:45:49 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by Zeissman:
To me, someone showing a positive display of their own beliefs is not offensive, but someone creating a negative display of the beliefs of others is.
that's just it
a positive display of a belief in "your" "god" IS a negative display of "my" non-belief
and vice-versa -- if "you" would allow that there's such a thing as a positive display of non-belief -- that's one i've yet to hear
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10/07/2002 08:40:42 PM · #53 |
After hearing some MANY complaints from some of you about not having TIME to vote on photos and comment on photos, I wonder why you waste your time writing all this stuff about ONE photo!!!
Give it up already...move on...it's clear that whoever took that photo wanted to see a thread this long about it...he/she is NOT an artist, he/she is desperate for attention...that's all.
DREWMEDIA, I wonder why you haven't put a lock on this thread and taken the photo out of the competition. I wonder if I had taken a photo of an american flag for this challenge, if it would still be up??
I'd like to think of this site as a means to display creativity, artistic talent, improve on one's desire to become a better photographer..NOT a means to stir up sh#@t and make political/religious/or whatever statements. There are plenty of other sites for that BS.
If it weren't for someone starting to put down other's religious beliefs 90+% of all wars in the world would have been avoided...yet in a civilized society we still find ---insert whatever word you'd like here--- enough people to continue doing this crap!!
Cheers. |
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10/07/2002 08:55:46 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by zadore:
...it's clear that whoever took that photo wanted to see a thread this long about it...he/she is NOT an artist, he/she is desperate for attention...that's all.
i think that's the kind of statement that doesn't belong here
let's look at a different pic --- Heaven & Hell --- from the CORPORATE challenge, a picture of a church
i don't recall a groundswell of protest, when one of the strongest images presented is that of the "church" as THE corporation
what? that's not what you read into the picture? ooooh - you mean this is open to interpretation?
then how about giving that same due to the photo (and ARTIST) in question
PLEASE
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10/07/2002 09:05:58 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by spiderman:
then how about giving that same due to the photo (and ARTIST) in question
PLEASE
Sorry...busy commenting on other photos ;)
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10/07/2002 09:12:10 PM · #56 |
Maybe you don't care, but all this religious talk may very well be turning people away from the site in a way that one picture never would.
Once again, it has struck me that the majority of people here are only interested in cultivating a community of people that are just like them.
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10/07/2002 09:15:52 PM · #57 |
Gee, I thought the subtitle on the challenge was, "one man's garbage..." with the implication of photos that could be viewed as garbage to one, and a treasure to another... yet so many photos this week were literally just garbage (that isn't commentary on quality, of course!). Seems to me like one person was trying to be creative. The picture wasn't the greatest, but the idea was fine. But whatever. As someone said earlier in this thread, there are some things that people refuse to have an open mind about, and just mentioning those topics is enough to get a person offended.
* This message has been edited by the author on 10/7/2002 9:16:05 PM. |
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10/07/2002 09:44:32 PM · #58 |
It's true this is a "private" site. But if the administrators decide to censor simply because they don't agree with the photo, then i am sure other people will leave the site as well. I know I would not want to be part of a site or any organization that cecnsors speech.
Let's not forget, if you feel INSULTED, it probably meant some of the message might be true :) if it's so utterly ridiculous, why are you mad? Put it this way, if someone say something ridiculous about me, i'd just laugh at him/her and move on, there is nothing to be insulted unless part of it IS the truth. And if you feel insulted, you should look in yourself instead of calling for censorship.
And, from many of the messages here calling for censorship, i am firmly convinced more than ever that Christians, the conservative ones, are basically intolerant of anything else but their religion, similar to other fundamentalist out there. Maybe it's tradition, maybe you're acting out from the great tradition of the church of burning a scientist at the stake for proclaiming that Earth is not the center of universe and forced Copernicus to recant his beliefs. Maybe it's tradition that you follow with the Inquisition, the burning of protestants in England, which by the way is why this country was FOUNDED and that's why the Bill of Rights has the freedom of speech.
And to all of you who thinks that our Founding fathers are 'Christian' in today's definition, think again. Thomas Jefferson actually wrote a version of the Bible in which he took out all the GARBAGES (since we're talkinga bout garbage photos...) from Paul, etc. and only containing the source of the enlightened being, namely, Jesus Christ, and ignored all of his worthless followers. Is he a Christian? Not by your definition, but as far as i can tell, people like him who seek the truth instead of blinding believing in Corinthian I &II, are the true Christians. And you guys who think you are who believes in your little sects like the Southern Baptists, would nevertheless feel threatened and feel insulted, because deep inside you KNOW it's true and you just can't believe it is and your ego gets offended.
If you're not offended, then let's move on and let's not talk about censorship. I don't bitch and moan when one of you put up a photo about church or religion.
(BTW, i didn't submit the photo this week so that wasn't me. But after this debate, i am seriously thinkinga bout submitting one that will push the envelope further :))
Originally posted by Zeissman:
To get back to the photo, I am a Christian, and I get tired of the insults and the lies constantly spread about Christianity. But I have to ask, just what is the insult in this photo? I do not understand the point of this, so, I am not going to get up in arms about it.
I am all for freedom of speech, and freedom of expression, I think flag buring should be legal, but I do not think that it means that all pictures have an equal right to be displayed on this site. This is a private sight, and the administrators can ban what they see fit. There are plenty of other outlets.
Also, I think that an artist that only expresses him/herself through negativity, is not much of an artist. It is very easy to tear down what others have done, it is much harder to put your own thoughts, ideas, beliefs up for display and ridicule.
To me, someone showing a positive display of their own beliefs is not offensive, but someone creating a negative display of the beliefs of others is. I do not give the same validity to creation as I do destruction. It would be like comparing a St. Patricks day celebration to a Klan rally.
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10/07/2002 10:01:40 PM · #59 |
| Once again, I'm not reading the photographer's mind, so I don't know what exact message they were trying to portray, but my interpretation is NOT that they are bashing christianity. I see it exactly the opposite, that christianity is IT, everything else garbage. OR-maybe they meant to enter the reflection catagory and missed by one whole week, it could happen right?:) |
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10/07/2002 10:18:25 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by paganini:
Maybe it's tradition that you follow with the Inquisition, the burning of protestants in England, which by the way is why this country was FOUNDED and that's why the Bill of Rights has the freedom of speech.
Umm, I'll let most of your historical inaccuracies slide, but I have to stop you short on this one... The Bill of Rights were written because of the Spanish Inquisition?!? Are you aware of WHEN those two events occured? And who exactly was burning Protestants in England?!? Wasn't (Isn't) the church of England a Protestant church?!?
And if you won't belong to an organization that censors speech, you won't belong any organization I've ever heard of.
Aside from that, I'll agree with the spirit of much that you said. Free exchange of ideas is an inherently good thing and I'm fairly sure most everyone here supports it. I'm not sure why you bring up the reason for one country's revolution as an example as to why this international site should react, but the reality of why that country formed had a lot more to do with taxes then religion.
Sorry to nitpik, but history is only suppose to be rewritten by the folks that win a war.
* This message has been edited by the author on 10/7/2002 10:22:40 PM. |
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10/07/2002 10:22:28 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by Gekker:
Once again, I'm not reading the photographer's mind, so I don't know what exact message they were trying to portray, but my interpretation is NOT that they are bashing christianity. I see it exactly the opposite, that christianity is IT, everything else garbage. OR-maybe they meant to enter the reflection catagory and missed by one whole week, it could happen right?:)
My point was not that it was a Christianity put down. But it was a put down on some ones belief system.
I never said I was a Christian. Did I? |
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10/07/2002 10:22:48 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by Gekker:
Once again, I'm not reading the photographer's mind, so I don't know what exact message they were trying to portray, but my interpretation is NOT that they are bashing christianity. I see it exactly the opposite, that christianity is IT, everything else garbage. OR-maybe they meant to enter the reflection catagory and missed by one whole week, it could happen right?:)
Anyone that looks closely and reads the pages that the Bible is open to will know that you are on the money here from the 'Christianity is it' thought. The thought that this could be a shot that was meant for last week hadn't occurred to me but has some VERY humorous possibilities :) |
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10/07/2002 10:25:27 PM · #63 |
I was also thinking that maybe the photographer was psychic and this is a Wrath entry for this week.
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10/07/2002 10:25:55 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by lina:
... it has struck me that the majority of people here are only interested in cultivating a community of people that are just like them.
i wonder which majority that is?
is the majority the open-minded, wondering why we can't all keep an open mind?
or is the majority the close-minded, trying the squash the creativity of others?
<[b]end my slant[b]>
* This message has been edited by the author on 10/7/2002 10:24:56 PM.
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10/07/2002 10:58:39 PM · #65 |
What I said metaphorically, was religious persecution is what drove colonists to America. It was for religious freedom. And part of Bill of Rights is relgious freedom and in order to have religious freedom you have to have freedom of speech. It was persecution of certain group of Christians who doesn't believe in the mainstream that forced them to move to America in the 1600's. The driving force for freedom in America WAS religious freedom. The "we're taxed too much" is just the excuse to gain that freedom from King George :-)
I am basically against any "art" organization that favors censorship. We're not talking about indecency here, we're talking about just a photograph of a Bible in a "Trash/Garbage" competition and people infer automatically that the bible was 'trash'. I guess a bit of truth did hurt their feelings (if it was really outrageous, people should just laugh about it and not get their egos hurt... as i have said before).
Originally posted by myqyl:
Originally posted by paganini:
[i]Maybe it's tradition that you follow with the Inquisition, the burning of protestants in England, which by the way is why this country was FOUNDED and that's why the Bill of Rights has the freedom of speech.
Umm, I'll let most of your historical inaccuracies slide, but I have to stop you short on this one... The Bill of Rights were written because of the Spanish Inquisition?!? Are you aware of WHEN those two events occured? And who exactly was burning Protestants in England?!? Wasn't (Isn't) the church of England a Protestant church?!?
And if you won't belong to an organization that censors speech, you won't belong any organization I've ever heard of.
Aside from that, I'll agree with the spirit of much that you said. Free exchange of ideas is an inherently good thing and I'm fairly sure most everyone here supports it. I'm not sure why you bring up the reason for one country's revolution as an example as to why this international site should react, but the reality of why that country formed had a lot more to do with taxes then religion.
Sorry to nitpik, but history is only suppose to be rewritten by the folks that win a war[/i]
* This message has been edited by the author on 10/7/2002 11:04:33 PM. |
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10/07/2002 11:41:07 PM · #66 |
This has gotten out of hand and is the exact reason why work places, schools, and sights like this have rules that state not to discriminate against race(skin color), religion, age, and gender.
I am not a Christian because of this history crap. I am because it is something that I believe is true. It is part of who I am, like the color of my skin.
Come on THAT IS ENOUGH!
Originally posted by paganini:
What I said metaphorically, was religious persecution is what drove colonists to America. It was for religious freedom. And part of Bill of Rights is relgious freedom and in order to have religious freedom you have to have freedom of speech. It was persecution of certain group of Christians who doesn't believe in the mainstream that forced them to move to America in the 1600's. The driving force for freedom in America WAS religious freedom. The "we're taxed too much" is just the excuse to gain that freedom from King George :-)
I am basically against any "art" organization that favors censorship. We're not talking about indecency here, we're talking about just a photograph of a Bible in a "Trash/Garbage" competition and people infer automatically that the bible was 'trash'. I guess a bit of truth did hurt their feelings (if it was really outrageous, people should just laugh about it and not get their egos hurt... as i have said before).
Originally posted by myqyl:
[i]Originally posted by paganini:
[i]Maybe it's tradition that you follow with the Inquisition, the burning of protestants in England, which by the way is why this country was FOUNDED and that's why the Bill of Rights has the freedom of speech.
Umm, I'll let most of your historical inaccuracies slide, but I have to stop you short on this one... The Bill of Rights were written because of the Spanish Inquisition?!? Are you aware of WHEN those two events occured? And who exactly was burning Protestants in England?!? Wasn't (Isn't) the church of England a Protestant church?!?
And if you won't belong to an organization that censors speech, you won't belong any organization I've ever heard of.
Aside from that, I'll agree with the spirit of much that you said. Free exchange of ideas is an inherently good thing and I'm fairly sure most everyone here supports it. I'm not sure why you bring up the reason for one country's revolution as an example as to why this international site should react, but the reality of why that country formed had a lot more to do with taxes then religion.
Sorry to nitpik, but history is only suppose to be rewritten by the folks that win a war[/i]
[/i]
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10/07/2002 11:46:23 PM · #67 |
This is just completely stupid. If a black person is insulted by racial slurs, it is because it is true?
Usually the reason it is insulting, is because it is grounded it bigotry, and ingorance.
This site is not a place for personal agendas. If you cannot get your thoughts across in a positive way, you are a limited artist. That is my opinion.
But, as I also said, I do not see what is insulting about this photo. If I did, I would recommend it for DQ. Again, I support the admins in how they administer this site. But, if they allow hatred and bigotry to rule, I will leave.
Originally posted by paganini:
Let's not forget, if you feel INSULTED, it probably meant some of the message might be true :)
Originally posted by Zeissman:
[i]To get back to the photo, I am a Christian, and I get tired of the insults and the lies constantly spread about Christianity. But I have to ask, just what is the insult in this photo? I do not understand the point of this, so, I am not going to get up in arms about it.
I am all for freedom of speech, and freedom of expression, I think flag buring should be legal, but I do not think that it means that all pictures have an equal right to be displayed on this site. This is a private sight, and the administrators can ban what they see fit. There are plenty of other outlets.
Also, I think that an artist that only expresses him/herself through negativity, is not much of an artist. It is very easy to tear down what others have done, it is much harder to put your own thoughts, ideas, beliefs up for display and ridicule.
To me, someone showing a positive display of their own beliefs is not offensive, but someone creating a negative display of the beliefs of others is. I do not give the same validity to creation as I do destruction. It would be like comparing a St. Patricks day celebration to a Klan rally.
[/i]
* This message has been edited by the author on 10/7/2002 11:45:27 PM. |
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10/07/2002 11:58:58 PM · #68 |
Hmmmm, all very interesting indeed. We have picture of a Bible, open to Isaiah 58 (I think I am correct), which is a "description of true religion." Now, before you jump on me, the quotes signify that I am quoting someone, in this instance, it is the general committee that translated the particular Bible I am looking at.
I would also like to point out that this thread has become a forum to point out what is wrong with Christianity, yet the text is Old Testament, and could easily be Judaism.
But you know what I truly suspect? The text wasn't chosen for any deep, symbolic reason. It was chosen 'cause it was in the middle of the Bible.
As far as being offended. I have said before, it takes much more than this to offend me. Bash Christianity all you want. I have faith that it can take it. :-) Attack me as being a conservative fundamentalist, and I will not argue with you because it is true. :-) But before you put us all into one big category, ask us as individuals why we believe what we do. I for one would love to share with you my personal experience that brought me where I am today, but I will not do it here, in a public forum. This is not the place. However, when discussions like this continue further and further away from the original point, and when other posters insist on singling out ONE denomination/religion/belief then I am tempted to take the liberty to tell you why I believe what I do. (note -- I said share, not push down your throat, etc).
Paganini, to you especially, I apologize for whatever Christian you have encountered that has made you this hostile to us. The Christians that I know (true Christians, not just people that go to church, or call themselves that because it is convienent, but have a real, personal relationsip with Christ) are among the most accepting, open-minded people i know. As a matter of fact, Christ himself was accepting of everyone. Try to remember that for the Christian, God's ways are not man's ways -- He is perfection and we are not. And though we strive to love and accept, we are human and fail miserably many times.
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10/08/2002 12:09:04 AM · #69 |
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10/08/2002 01:03:26 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by karmat:
[i]Hmmmm, all very interesting indeed. We have picture of a Bible, open to Isaiah 58 (I think I am correct), which is a "description of true religion." Now, before you jump on me, the quotes signify that I am quoting someone, in this instance, it is the general committee that translated the particular Bible I am looking at.
I would also like to point out that this thread has become a forum to point out what is wrong with Christianity, yet the text is Old Testament, and could easily be Judaism.
But you know what I truly suspect? The text wasn't chosen for any deep, symbolic reason. It was chosen 'cause it was in the middle of the Bible.
As far as being offended. I have said before, it takes much more than this to offend me. Bash Christianity all you want. I have faith that it can take it. :-) Attack me as being a conservative fundamentalist, and I will not argue with you because it is true. :-) But before you put us all into one big category, ask us as individuals why we believe what we do. I for one would love to share with you my personal experience that brought me where I am today, but I will not do it here, in a public forum. This is not the place. However, when discussions like this continue further and further away from the original point, and when other posters insist on singling out ONE denomination/religion/belief then I am tempted to take the liberty to tell you why I believe what I do. (note -- I said share, not push down your throat, etc).
Paganini, to you especially, I apologize for whatever Christian you have encountered that has made you this hostile to us. The Christians that I know (true Christians, not just people that go to church, or call themselves that because it is convienent, but have a real, personal relationsip with Christ) are among the most accepting, open-minded people i know. As a matter of fact, Christ himself was accepting of everyone. Try to remember that for the Christian, God's ways are not man's ways -- He is perfection and we are not. And though we strive to love and accept, we are human and fail miserably many times.
Well said Karma...The true christians I know try to be Christ-like...loving people, forgiving those who persecute us, reaching out to help others in need and giving a soft answer to turn away wrath. It's the model I endeavor to follow. Some people really hate Christians, and judge all for the few bad apples they may have encountered. I am what I am because of my faith in Jesus Christ, and for the rich experiences in my life with him. I CHOSE to follow him. Actually I choose daily.
Although I am quite capable of doing so, I won't preach my faith here. But if anyone ever wants to know why I chose Christ and how it's transformed me, feel free to email me. I love to share my faith.
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10/08/2002 01:13:34 AM · #71 |
Sonifo - Please don't liken this photo to "discrimination". It doesn't discriminate against anyone. It's a photo of a book, and it implies the book is "garbage", ie. the ideas in it.
If it was a photo of a person who was obviously a christian, maybe then it would be discrimination. But it's a photo of a book. We often go around having arguments with one another and call each other's opinions or ideas "rubbish", but does that discriminate against you? Does that imply hatred towards you?
Racism means treating someone as an inferior person because of the DNA they were born with. Same with sexism or ageism. It's about denying rights or opportunities to people, or inciting hatred towards people, for reasons that are beyond their control. This photo does not do this. It makes a comment about a set of ideas or beliefs, not people. If you hold those beliefs and don't think they're "garbage", then you simply disagree with the photographer. You are not being denied anything. You can rate the photo down or post a comment. No one is inciting hatred towards you. And censorship in this case would be completely overreacting.
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10/08/2002 01:18:57 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by lisae:
Racism means treating someone as an inferior person because of the DNA they were born with. Same with sexism or ageism. It's about denying rights or opportunities to people, or inciting hatred towards people, for reasons that are beyond their control. This photo does not do this. It makes a comment about a set of ideas or beliefs, not people. If you hold those beliefs and don't think they're "garbage", then you simply disagree with the photographer. You are not being denied anything. You can rate the photo down or post a comment. No one is inciting hatred towards you. And censorship in this case would be completely overreacting.
These were my thoughts exactly while reading this thread. Thanks for articulating it so well. |
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10/08/2002 01:37:42 AM · #73 |
Oh, so your rule is that if YOU feel insulted, then the photo should be DQed????
Oh yeah, that makes it perfectly OK to censor, perfect logic there.
If someone feels insulted, it's an ego issue. The other person can be a jerk but as long as you have your head firmly in control, you wouldn't care less. But you can't because you can't control your own emotions and you have to blame a photo for making you feel insignificant. You have the control of your own emotions not to get your feelings hurt. Same goes for racial slurs. I have been on the receiving end of that from many good "Christian" boys when I was in high school/junior high, but it really doesn't bother me because I know who I am. It's an ego issue, if you're less confident you'll probably be affected and get upset. I am in control of my own world.
It's a good thing that artists in general could care less if their art insults someone. If everyone makes art to please everyone else, we wouldn't have Van Gogh, Gougin, Monet, Picasso, and of course Dali.
Originally posted by Zeissman:
This is just completely stupid. If a black person is insulted by racial slurs, it is because it is true?
Usually the reason it is insulting, is because it is grounded it bigotry, and ingorance.
This site is not a place for personal agendas. If you cannot get your thoughts across in a positive way, you are a limited artist. That is my opinion.
But, as I also said, I do not see what is insulting about this photo. If I did, I would recommend it for DQ. Again, I support the admins in how they administer this site. But, if they allow hatred and bigotry to rule, I will leave.
Originally posted by paganini:
[i]Let's not forget, if you feel INSULTED, it probably meant some of the message might be true :)
Originally posted by Zeissman:
[i]To get back to the photo, I am a Christian, and I get tired of the insults and the lies constantly spread about Christianity. But I have to ask, just what is the insult in this photo? I do not understand the point of this, so, I am not going to get up in arms about it.
I am all for freedom of speech, and freedom of expression, I think flag buring should be legal, but I do not think that it means that all pictures have an equal right to be displayed on this site. This is a private sight, and the administrators can ban what they see fit. There are plenty of other outlets.
Also, I think that an artist that only expresses him/herself through negativity, is not much of an artist. It is very easy to tear down what others have done, it is much harder to put your own thoughts, ideas, beliefs up for display and ridicule.
To me, someone showing a positive display of their own beliefs is not offensive, but someone creating a negative display of the beliefs of others is. I do not give the same validity to creation as I do destruction. It would be like comparing a St. Patricks day celebration to a Klan rally.
[/i]
[/i]
* This message has been edited by an administrator (magnetic9999) on 10/8/2002 7:45:18 AM - personal insult against other site user. |
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10/08/2002 01:53:52 AM · #74 |
Let me make it clear: I have absolutely no problems with Jesus Christ. I think he's a very moral man. However, I have problems with his followers, starting with Paul :) This is why there are so much contradiction in the Bible (Stone your children when they misbehave, Deuteronomy -- i mean, if you follow every word in the bible, you're a fanatic at the least. On one hand you have the old testament which is a Hateful God, on the other hand you have Jesus Christ who is the opposite, then there is Paul who decided to put down all sort of rules that are contradictory to what Jesus taught. Geez, make up your mind!). If there is a God and that person is Christ, the only thing that mattered is how he lives his life on earth. For some reason none of the churches teaches that, they all concentrate on the BS from Paul in Corinthians I & II.
(Yes, I have studied Bible for quite a while when I was younger. But common sense and logic dictate that either:
1. The whole book is a sham because there are so many inconsistencies from a "perfect" God, or
2. There might be some truth in it, but it's buried in BS with all the supernatural stuff designed to convert Pagans to Christianity).
Here's a good book: Thomas Jefferson's Bible. He took the New Testament and cut down on all the other non-Jesus related events and all supernatural events. The result is pretty interesting and if more "Christians" actually follow Jesus's life, i'll be more impressed. But from what i have seen, they tend to be on this "I am on this higher moral ground" and they fall pretty hard when there are scandals, as recent events in Boston have proven, what was it, 100+ children molested?
Hmmmm. I have a great idea for the coming week photo for Lust:
A child kneels down in church to pray (front view of his face bow down), a Priest comes from behind puts his hand on his shoulder and gives a lewd grin and the expression on the photo is a horrofied child or perhaps crying. Preferably, the priest will only show his mouth but not his face (i.e. just the lewd grin) PERFECT!
I am kidding of course, if i wanted a good score from the site, i wouldn't post that on there given the record of people on here that would shout for disqualification and giving a #1 for being insulted. But I may make one of those imageries for myself and maybe for publication one of these days. Caption, how about "Lust"? I wonder how that photo would look, i have an image in my head about how it would look, a B&W imagery, a light shines on the child weeping kneeling with his hands clasped, an adult hand coming from the black background where onoly the priest mouth and part of his robes are shown, he is giving a lewd grin. I think that speaks for itself.
Originally posted by karmat:
Hmmmm, all very interesting indeed. We have picture of a Bible, open to Isaiah 58 (I think I am correct), which is a "description of true religion." Now, before you jump on me, the quotes signify that I am quoting someone, in this instance, it is the general committee that translated the particular Bible I am looking at.
I would also like to point out that this thread has become a forum to point out what is wrong with Christianity, yet the text is Old Testament, and could easily be Judaism.
But you know what I truly suspect? The text wasn't chosen for any deep, symbolic reason. It was chosen 'cause it was in the middle of the Bible.
As far as being offended. I have said before, it takes much more than this to offend me. Bash Christianity all you want. I have faith that it can take it. :-) Attack me as being a conservative fundamentalist, and I will not argue with you because it is true. :-) But before you put us all into one big category, ask us as individuals why we believe what we do. I for one would love to share with you my personal experience that brought me where I am today, but I will not do it here, in a public forum. This is not the place. However, when discussions like this continue further and further away from the original point, and when other posters insist on singling out ONE denomination/religion/belief then I am tempted to take the liberty to tell you why I believe what I do. (note -- I said share, not push down your throat, etc).
Paganini, to you especially, I apologize for whatever Christian you have encountered that has made you this hostile to us. The Christians that I know (true Christians, not just people that go to church, or call themselves that because it is convienent, but have a real, personal relationsip with Christ) are among the most accepting, open-minded people i know. As a matter of fact, Christ himself was accepting of everyone. Try to remember that for the Christian, God's ways are not man's ways -- He is perfection and we are not. And though we strive to love and accept, we are human and fail miserably many times.
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10/08/2002 04:06:01 AM · #75 |
paganini,
I'd rather see the the preist's pale, fragile hand glowing like marble in a pool of milky white light where it's already resting on the boy's shoulder, his robes dim in the umbra cast by1 the halo of wispy blond hair shining around the boy's anguished or innocent2 expression.
But you're right, the truncated face with little but grin is spot on. It lends a frightening anonymity to the scene, in esence turning the priest into a representation of any priest, or even of your preist, giving one pause and nigh compelling an evaluation of your own situation if applicable.
Everyone else,
Provacative? Sure. Offensive? To some. Photography? You have my vote.
Learn to learn from the ugly as much as you you do from the beautiful.
Footnotes:
1) And strikingly hilighted by
2) Before or after as it were, for an emphasis on either anxiety or tragedy
* This message has been edited by the author on 10/8/2002 4:09:37 AM. |
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