Metering for outdoor shots! - DPChallenge Forums

12/08/2006 08:23:37 PM · #1

I don't do a lot of outdoor photography but am curious. In a situation where there is a lot of sun and some shade what is the best way to meter for this without losing too much to blowouts or underexposure? I do have a light meter but if someone is standing in the shade with sun hitting the background is there a way to meter for this to keep the details in the background or is it going to blow out no matter what I do?

Many thanks!

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

12/08/2006 08:28:51 PM · #2

The thing you normally want to meter for is the face and the midtones on the face in particular. Get in close, get a meter reading with your camera (as it doesn't have a spot meter option) and use that reading

If the subject is in the shade and the background is in sunlight, the background will blow out for a well exposed subject.

unless you use fill flash or a reflector to raise the light value on the subject to compensate. If you bounce some light back into the subject you can get a high key but not blown out background, more easily. It is all about the ratio between the background midtones and the subject mid-tones. If those are more than a couple of stops apart, you'll get a blown out background. (the same is true to get a high key clean white background too)

12/08/2006 08:52:25 PM · #3

Exactly what Gordon said. It's always a compromise, unless you have a method to force light into the darker areas (such as reflectors or fill-flash).

Message edited by author 2006-12-08 20:53:14.

Makka

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

12/08/2006 09:00:41 PM · #4

So if I'm gonna use a fill flash I should meter it to that in the shadows? Cool, thanks for the tips guys! I just find that relying on the camera to get it right always goes to the extreme in either direction. Hopefully this will help! Thanks!

12/08/2006 09:05:55 PM · #5

Originally posted by Makka:

Here's an easy way to make it pop.

Go to manual mode on your camera. Get a light reading from background and then set for about 1-2 stops under-exposure for the background. Remember your camera can'tflash sync at higher than 1/200 of a second.

Now back to compose on the subject. Your TTL flash will read the exposure for the subject and fire accordingly to get proper exposure on the subject.

Simple and effective.

Now if you think the BG is too dark, slow down the shutter speed a bit. If the subject is too dark, open the aperture some.

12/08/2006 09:23:54 PM · #6

As an example, and nearly straight out of the camera, these were taken today, nearly at high noon:

I set in manual, meter the scene for the brightest area using the spot metering, drop exposure one notch to the left (under-exposed side), had the built in flash manually popped-up to fill and set to -1EV, flash synch set at 1/200,
and used (don't laugh now) a ping pong ball on the flash head to diffuse.

Pretty good results for low dollars.

Message edited by author 2006-12-08 21:32:57.

12/08/2006 09:26:11 PM · #7

From a couple years of shooting indoor wrestling meets, use the ISO to your advantage.
Low ISO selected = darker backgrounds and high flash power used.
High ISO selected = brighter backgrounds and lower flash power used.
(Letting the TTL flash exposure do it's thing)

12/08/2006 09:31:18 PM · #8

Originally posted by BradP:

As an example, and nearly straight out of the camera, this was taken today, nearly at high noon:

I set in manual, meter the scene for the brightest area using the spot metering, drop exposure one notch to the left (under-exposed side), had the built in flash manually popped-up to fill and set to -1EV, flash synch set at 1/200,
and used (don't laugh now) a ping pong ball on the flash head to diffuse.

Pretty good results for low dollars.

A ping pong ball? What, you cut a hole in it and popped it on? I got to try that.

12/08/2006 09:33:23 PM · #9

Originally posted by ursula:

A ping pong ball? What, you cut a hole in it and popped it on? I got to try that.

Exactly... it's a great idea if you need portable diffusion for your pop up flash.

12/08/2006 09:36:25 PM · #10

Originally posted by ursula:

Originally posted by BradP:
As an example, and nearly straight out of the camera, this was taken today, nearly at high noon:

I set in manual, meter the scene for the brightest area using the spot metering, drop exposure one notch to the left (under-exposed side), had the built in flash manually popped-up to fill and set to -1EV, flash synch set at 1/200,
and used (don't laugh now) a ping pong ball on the flash head to diffuse.

Pretty good results for low dollars.

A ping pong ball? What, you cut a hole in it and popped it on? I got to try that.

Yup!
Basically cut a wedge out of it, trimming slowly until it fits snugly over the flash head. The diffusion is really pretty nice and knocks just enough edge off a harsh flash. I've been experimenting with one, blackening the back half to keep more light forward. (maybe moreso to keep less out of my eyes when the flash goes off)

12/08/2006 09:48:29 PM · #11

Originally posted by BradP:

I've been experimenting with one, blackening the back half to keep more light forward. (maybe moreso to keep less out of my eyes when the flash goes off)

Tried maybe putting aluminum foil back there?

Makka

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

12/08/2006 10:27:34 PM · #12

Thanks for all your tips there! Will have to go and play now! :)

faidoi

Pentax K10D

12/08/2006 10:35:38 PM · #13

Scrims to darken background, thus giving a better exposure on subject.

12/08/2006 10:37:11 PM · #14

Originally posted by faidoi:

Scrims to darken background, thus giving a better exposure on subject.

Now your just being difficult :-P LOL

12/08/2006 11:26:22 PM · #15

Thank you, guys, for that flash diffuser tip - I'm going to go get a few ping pong balls tomorrow morning. THis is cool.

12/08/2006 11:26:53 PM · #16

Originally posted by faidoi:

Scrims to darken background, thus giving a better exposure on subject.

Scrims?

12/08/2006 11:33:10 PM · #17

Originally posted by ursula:

Originally posted by faidoi:
Scrims to darken background, thus giving a better exposure on subject.

Scrims?

Blocking the light from the b/g

12/09/2006 11:59:46 AM · #18

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by ursula:

Originally posted by faidoi:
Scrims to darken background, thus giving a better exposure on subject.

Scrims?

Blocking the light from the b/g

Ah. Thanks again!

doctornick

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

12/09/2006 12:14:05 PM · #19

Av mode, Turn on High Speed sync on your Flash, Meter on the highlights (in this case the background), Dial down the Flash by -1.3 to -1.6 FEC and voila!

More details HERE.

12/09/2006 12:24:01 PM · #20

Originally posted by ursula:

Thank you, guys, for that flash diffuser tip - I'm going to go get a few ping pong balls tomorrow morning. THis is cool.

Did a somewhat controlled test with/without the diffuser, though something that would generate more shadow would have maybe been better. Both shots here were taken in manual exposure mode, camera's pop-up flash used for fill flash, TTL exposure (no flash compensation EV settings altered) , hand-held, f/2.5, 1/60 sec, ISO100. Opened in Photoshop, resized using Bicubic sharper method, saved for web at 200k file optimization.

---- Without diffuser ---------- With diffuser ----

The high-tech diffuser:

Message edited by author 2006-12-09 12:55:59.

12/09/2006 12:45:40 PM · #21

The picture with the diffuser has much better colour and it has very little "glare" on the skin. Wow. I love that ping-pong ball idea. Somewhere I remember reading something about someone using a little film canister in a similar fashion (I think) - I had been storing that info in the back of my mind to try it sometime.

12/09/2006 01:16:39 PM · #22

Yeah, a clear (foggy) film canister should produce similar results.... although ping-pong balls or toy golf balls are likely easier to find :-)

12/09/2006 07:18:50 PM · #23

OK, do you guys know how hard it is to get ping-pong balls in a small town like where I live? I thought I'd just march downtown, go to a store, and get them. So I went to
1 - the Gadged store
2 - Field's
3 - the store that sells baseball cards
4 - the dollar store
5 - the PharmaPlus
6 - Liquidation World

No luck. Then I remembered we have a cycling store in town, and, voila! they had them. But they informed me that I shouldn't call them "ping-pong balls", but "table-tennis balls". So sop-histicated! I told them I'd just call them "diffusers", and they looked at me funny. So I explained, and everybody was happy.

He, he, now I need to find the exacto-knife.

12/09/2006 07:53:08 PM · #24

Same trouble here.
Actually found some at Sears, in the sporting goods section.