Duotones - DPChallenge Forums

05/27/2003 11:36:12 AM · #26

Originally posted by paganini:

I think the color photos i saw in this challenge don't fit the category, i.e. they have different colors in different areas of the image. If it was duotone, it needs to be for all the areas.

Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Konador:
I'm just going by what Gordon told me a long time ago when a full colour photo won the Black and White category at digitalphotocontest. I don't have any knowledge or info to back it up so I'll wait for Gordon to come online :P

I think that was a case where a full colour image won, that was monochromatic. The subject was golden, the background was golden and the whole, full colour shot only really featured one dominant colour.

The B&W category there includes monochromatic shots - not certain that encompasses duotones though...

I wish you would re-think this. If duotoning is achieved with a chemical wash, is it not reasonable that there will be many diferent shades of the color plus another color to make it duo (two colors). I have seen many examples in the past that were called duotones.

05/27/2003 11:46:37 AM · #27

Originally posted by David Ey:

IMHO, black counts as a color for this, though, so to me 'duotone' means white, black, and an optional third color. Not an additional optional fourth, fifth, sixth ...

05/27/2003 02:09:25 PM · #28

Originally posted by eloise:

Originally posted by David Ey:
I wish you would re-think this. If duotoning is achieved with a chemical wash, is it not reasonable that there will be many diferent shades of the color plus another color to make it duo (two colors). I have seen many examples in the past that were called duotones.

IMHO, black counts as a color for this, though, so to me 'duotone' means white, black, and an optional third color. Not an additional optional fourth, fifth, sixth ...

Details: Photograph your subject using only two color tones (black/white, sepia, etc). Good luck

So, there may be a third color? And you MUST use black and white?
THANKS!!! Why have any rules at all?

05/27/2003 02:14:28 PM · #29

Originally posted by David Ey:

Originally posted by eloise:
IMHO, black counts as a color for this, though, so to me 'duotone' means white, black, and an optional third color. Not an additional optional fourth, fifth, sixth ...

Details: Photograph your subject using only two color tones (black/white, sepia, etc). Good luck

So, there may be a third color? And you MUST use black and white?
THANKS!!! Why have any rules at all?

No. In a sepiatone, the colors are sepia and white. A true sepiatone will not have any pure black tones anywhere in it. therefore, it's a duotone. If you take a B/W (or 256 greys, whatever) image, and convert all the black to shades of, say, purple, it's still a duotone. If it's got strong whites, strong purples, and strong blacks, it's not a duotone ... to me. You could also in theory convert the whites to various shades of blue and have something in blacks and blues, which would be equally interesting.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

05/27/2003 02:17:05 PM · #30

Originally posted by David Ey:

THANKS!!! Why have any rules at all?

So that people can complain pointlessly about them ?

Message edited by author 2003-05-27 14:21:35.

05/27/2003 04:10:50 PM · #31

Well, I just wanted her to go back and re-evaluate the comment she left on one of the entries. It doesn't seem to fit the current def. she has given.

I'm just playing with her anyway....she has much much better entries than me and I have no idea what I am talking about, but I can read and understand the rules as they were written.

btw...an entry in the sound challenge which gives one the feeling of NO sound would not be within the guidelines for a literally consersative person.

Message edited by author 2003-05-27 16:17:54.

e301

05/27/2003 04:14:49 PM · #32

But is not a very dark shade of purple to all intents and purposes black? A digital recreation of the technique is not perfectible, so it's copied by addiing a tone to a black/white image?

Ed

paganini

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

05/27/2003 05:23:20 PM · #33

Maybe the problem was the challenge definition, because it does say "photograph using 2 tones", rather than, convert the photograph to duotones (i.e. using photoshop or other software to turn it to gray scale and then add the colors in the duotone process. The color photo i am talking about has three colors in different areas rather than simply a tone thorughout the photograph.

I am aware the chemical process can emphasize highlights or shadows (and hence in PS you can use curves to your heart content), but the color photograph in question do not have that characteristic. It has distinct 3 colors in the SAME tonal range. It's simply a color photograph, though a very nice one, just don't fit "duotone".

05/27/2003 11:18:05 PM · #34

The Challenge says:
Photograph your subject using only two color tones(black/white, sepia, etc). Good luck.

According to Websters Dictionary:
Sepia =
2 : a print or photograph of a brown color resembling sepia
3 : a brownish gray to dark olive brown color

Well... Sepia is many colors of "brownish"
once again, the creative well is sucked dry on technicalities.

Tone : the color that appreciably modifies a hue or white or black - I read this challenge as TWO colors - Sepia = Browinsh (many shades) and another color. - Or Black/white

wewillexplore

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

05/28/2003 07:08:17 AM · #35

I have been having this same discussion over PM regarding my picture. How the hell can someone be so vain as to put their own definition of duotones above Photoshop's? "Oh, I'm sorry but this is red, black AND white. Therefore even tho you made it using Photoshop's duotoning, it's not a 'duotone'" WHAZZAT?! C'mon people - get REAL.

M

05/28/2003 09:25:23 AM · #36

Originally posted by mavrik:

Honestly? I trust my judgement over Photoshop's. :-> I know not its capabilities and choices from a hole in the ground.

paganini

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

05/28/2003 10:41:41 AM · #37

Duotone definition is from the film days. Which means, it's a chemical process that adds to ALL of the image with 2 colors in different shades. So yes you can have yellow from light to dark and black from light to dark (gray scale), and that's a duo tone. Combined together, they'll be a bit greenish in the dark side and yellowish/white on the highlights. But, they won't have a distinct separation of yellow and black like the few color photos in question. It has nothing to do with Photoshop -- I used photoshop as an example of how to achieve this effect. At least that'st he color photo i had in question (probably not yours, but the one I saw had distinctive BORDERS where in the same mid-tone, it has two different colors in different areas, and in duotone process, they will have the same color at the same mid-tone level, they may differ from shadow to high lights, but they should be the same at the same intensity level).

But maybe no one cares for film anymore and decides to do their own definition.

Originally posted by mavrik:

05/28/2003 10:47:29 AM · #38

What it really comes down to is that I feel no guilt at all for scanning all the entries, noting a subset of five or ten pictures that I feel just didn't get the challenge topic, didn't try, or have such a radically different view of the topic than I do that I can't judge them -- and mark them at 2-4 (4 for those that would be kick-ass and get high scores from me in some other topic). This gets them out of the way so I can judge the shots I feel DO fit the topic, and that should be considered separately from those that don't.

Yeah, it's opinionated. No, I'm not trying to tell other people to judge exactly like I do. What would be the point? But it does cut the job into manageable bunches for me (and when I'm only 'discarding' far less than ten percent of the entries, I feel no guilt whatsoever).

05/28/2003 11:25:37 AM · #39

eloise, Thank you very much for the four.

05/28/2003 01:11:19 PM · #40

Eloise, I do respect your opinion on "duotones" and from my score this week, I can clearly see I am in the minority on my opinion of a duotone or sepia. I do believe however, if I used the sepia function to create my picture, in my mind it should clearly meet the challenge if the challenge calls for sepia.

I have very low scores on this shot from very reputable people, so I know I'm out there in left field.

By the way, none of us are working with film on these duotones. If you are, you wont meet the digital challenge.

High Five and a secret hand shake - David Ey and Mavrik :D

05/28/2003 01:16:25 PM · #41

OH, and Black, White and Gray = 3 colors
but it's called a "duo"tone - imagine that :)

BigSmiles

Canon EOS-10D

05/28/2003 01:17:34 PM · #42

(this was originally posted by eloise)No. In a sepiatone, the colors are sepia and white. A true sepiatone will not have any pure black tones anywhere in it. therefore, it's a duotone. If you take a B/W (or 256 greys, whatever) image, and convert all the black to shades of, say, purple, it's still a duotone. If it's got strong whites, strong purples, and strong blacks, it's not a duotone ... to me. You could also in theory convert the whites to various shades of blue and have something in blacks and blues, which would be equally interesting.(end quote here)

I agree with this definition. It is consistent with toning of b/w prints. However the pictures are digital in this case. I wouldn't go as far as to say that images with strong blacks aren't duotones if they're supposed to be sepia because we're not actually using the chemical process here. I would agree wholeheartedly if we were displaying b/w toned prints.

Okay, so the quote thing didn't work.. you get the picture

Message edited by author 2003-05-28 13:18:50.

05/28/2003 01:20:50 PM · #43

a very very very dark red is still black, no matter how you slice it.

scroosloose

Pentax K100D Super

05/28/2003 01:32:20 PM · #44

I don't know but to me a duotone can have vibrant saturated colors. As long as it only contians two colors, its a duotone.
Mark

05/28/2003 02:08:12 PM · #45

Originally posted by scroosloose:

I don't know but to me a duotone can have vibrant saturated colors. As long as it only contians two colors, its a duotone.
Mark

I agree Mark, however, if the two colors are orange and blue and either of them at their lightest value, now you have white.
at the darkest value, you now have Black.
when you mix the blue with the orange, now you have brown.

that is now 5 colors, the question is, is it technically a duotone?

It is by my rules, but mine are obviously the minority.

paganini

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

05/28/2003 02:15:48 PM · #46

No, actually it's a single tone (black, various degrees). Duotone doesn't mean 2 colors, it means TWO tones.

It's about having a tone that changes the lightness across the image. So BLACK = one tone, and light black = grayish color.

BLACK + YELLOW will create from total black color, to greenish, to light yellow across the intensity. The darkest part will be black, the middle would be greenish/yellowish and the lightest part will be yellowish/white.

Originally posted by Gringo:

OH, and Black, White and Gray = 3 colors
but it's called a "duo"tone - imagine that :)

05/28/2003 02:47:31 PM · #47

Paganini

In that case, you can only have two tones, be it a black solid and a black screen at 50 percent. with no other screen values, because they change the tone.

NONE of the pictures meet the challenge if that were the case. They all have every screen 90 80 70 through 5 percent.

When you add the second color, you now have a multitude of colors from the original two.

I guess mine is a digital perspective. Im not working with film here.

05/28/2003 02:55:22 PM · #48

Paganini:
It's about having a tone that changes the lightness across the image. So BLACK = one tone, and light black = grayish color.

BLACK + YELLOW will create from total black color, to greenish, to light yellow across the intensity. The darkest part will be black, the middle would be greenish/yellowish and the lightest part will be yellowish/white.

now you have Black, yellow, white, greenish and gray. = 5 colors

Bingo, I think we are on the same page now.

I knew I could learn ya. :)

Message edited by author 2003-05-28 15:06:06.