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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> In My Den - Voters, What Were You Thinking?
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Showing posts 76 - 88 of 88, (reverse)
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 10/04/2002 04:41:52 AM · #76
CJ,

You frequently mention in your replies and original post something to the effect of ... if the picture doesn't turn your crank fine, but don't give it a 4 just because of that.

Almost anyone can, given time, right equipment, training, etc, take a cosmetically correct photo that meets a challenges critera to the letter. Should it be rated a 7 or 8 or 9 just because it does so? Or should the appeal and/or originality of the photo take on more weight in the scoring?

If I weld two posts together, with perferct welds and perfectly polished steel, then submit it for an industrial art project, should I get a 7 or 8 just because the welds are perfect? Alternitively, if I submit that same piece to a shop class should i get a 3 or 4 if it doesn't look different then other students work? If i have a 1mp camera and take a shot should it get rated lower then someone else with a 7mp camera, given the same lighting, subject, etc?

When someone votes on this site, he/she is voting based on his or her own personal views. Not on what someone else thinks or based on someone elses standards. Its not 50% technical merit, 50%artistic merit. There are no set rules to the challenges when it comes to voting criteria or submissions.

When I read your first post that started this thread, it sounded like you were calling the people who gave it a 4, 3, 2, or 1 idiots who just clicked what ever button was closest to his/her mouse at the time. Right or wrong, maybe they put more bias towards the artistic merit (what turned their crank) of the photograph rather then cosmetic merit or its ability to meet the challenge.

Presuming by your responses, maybe i'm wrong (which happens often enough), it sounds like you spent a lot of time thinking/taking this shot and with that effort and planning that was put in you believe it best represents your corner of the world and was technically correct. However, when voting on the submissions we are only given the shot and a title to the image. We do not know the subjects history (be it a mortal or object) or the circumstances under which the photograph was taken. So we are left to judge it based on the merits that to us, personnaly, define it as being a good photograph or a poor one.

What those merits are and what weight they have is up to the voter to decide. Which photograph wins or scores high on the challenge is not based on whats photograph has the best techinical or artistic merit, but is based on what the combine, personal, views of all the voters opinions are towards each photograph. The audience you chose to show your image to rated it the way they did. Given another audience maybe it would have done better or poorer.

Anyways, that just my ...

DM

 10/04/2002 09:11:47 AM · #77
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
Don't ask how we feel, if you're not ready to accept it.

reponse by cjmorgan59
I didn't ask how you feel, but rather what were you thinking. And specifically, what were you thinking when you voted. And to hear the answer to that question does not presume that I'll agree with thinking.

Since we were presumably thinking about how we felt about your photo I think your quibbling over word usage in this instance is not merited. Furthermore, no one is asking you to agree with their opinion. The problem seems to be that you are are bent on having us agree with yours.

You have defined what you think is an appropriate method for voting; that is your method. It is appropriate for YOU. We are entitled to our own methods. It's a shame that you feel that no photos you take deserve to be seen as below average by a single viewer. I say "a shame" because 1) it is inevitably going to happen again and 2) it's very unlikely that you are so good that it reasonable for you to take this approach.

FWIW, my voting scale is as follows:
10 = Outstanding (I would buy it.)
9 = Excellent
8 = Very good
7 = Quite good
6 = More than sufficient, pretty good
5 = Average, good
4 = Just below average
3 = Below average
2 = Bad
1 = Very bad

I gave you a six, but I don't think that it's an awful stretch by my own voting scale in understanding why people might have thought "just below average" or "below average".

FOUR TIMES you have had to use the phrase "at the risk of sounding immodest" or a quite similar turn of phrase; the truth is you sound arrogant. I state this not to troll, but to give you some insight into how others are perceiving your reactions here. I speak for myself in the statement. Just accept what others have to say - you don't have to agree. We're not asking you to, but we're also not asking for your constant disqualification of our opinions. Since you have been such a stickler, in maintaining the details in your posts, I'll point out one that you have overlooked: You asked what we were thinking; none of us asked for your reaction to our thoughts. I find it insulting for you to react to each person's post explaining why his/her thoughts are wrong.

Take what you can use; disregard the rest.
Dawn
 10/04/2002 10:07:55 AM · #78
Originally posted by just-married:

I'll point out one that you have overlooked: You
asked what we were thinking; none of us asked for your reaction
to our thoughts. I find it insulting for you to react to each
person's post explaining why his/her thoughts are wrong.


Personally, I feel left out. I gave quite a long post explaining where
my vote came from - not one reply ;(

And also personally, I think it is odd for people to post their
thoughts to a public forum, if they don't expect people to reply to
them - but maybe that is just me. If you don't want to know what I or anyone else
thinks about what you've said, don't stick it out there for the whole
world to read and then be surprised when they reply.
 10/04/2002 10:39:15 AM · #79
Yet again we have a great debate started by someone who thinks their photo is fantastic and expects everyone else to agree and we are back to the same issue of people being sooooo desperate to win they cannot and WILL not except it when they don't! For me photography is my passion, the joy is in taking the picture, I don't care if I come 1st or 250th in the DPC, its just abit of fun. Chill out CJ, go take some pictures, if you think they are wonderful then you are a winner.
 10/04/2002 10:50:37 AM · #80
The final answer CJ I guess is ... that you're getting 2,3 or 4 because people have different evaluation scale and criteria than yours and mine is different that yours. This is 'why' you get them. Then maybe we could switch to a 'judging/evaluation/analysing' discussion thread talking about an other picture, not yours, and getting less personal here.
and there is other thread were people succeed in the dialogue and convince each other ... I think this one started pretty bad becasue of miscommunication/misunderstanding/whatever about the words you used.
Take more picture ... submit them ... comment ours ... and let's all be happy taking picture AND talking about them.
Lionel
 10/04/2002 12:17:32 PM · #81
Im with Lionel - I definitely think it's time we put this thread to bed.

<Holds up his SUMO card>

John

(For the uninitiated SUMO = Shut Up, Move On)
 10/04/2002 02:54:50 PM · #82
What were you thinking is the question? Well, I happen to remember what I was thinking, and I offer this because your tenacity shows you definitely wish an answer. Of course, as you may have learned, by asking such a question you have voluntarily put yourself at risk of unadulterated, unabashed criticism. In fact, you have granted the world a license into your creation and your creativity itself - a dangerous thing to do unwittingly because one is never prepared for the result. So, an honest question deserves an honest answer:

I gave your pic a low score - and I did so while thinking: (A) This guy must be some kind of frustrated lawyer or something - he is so literal - and he literally took a picture of himself in the corner of his den; (B) I am not struck by anything unqique about his appearance and/or the corner of his world since it has in it the same old sh*t we all have in our computer situations, only in his case it is messy, dark and drab; and (C) The shot looks heavily and/or over-produced - technically surpassing what should be applied to a portrait in a den. (The technical assessment comes last because it should be in every pic or if missing it should contribute to the effect of the picture - to me, it rarely makes a picture alone.)

So this is what I thought. Hopefully sir you have not been hurt in this process but have learned that once you open the door, either by submitting a creation for review and criticism, or worse by taking a second (and more serious) risk (viz., asking an open question seeking explanations of why reviewers did not like your creation), all hell can break into your head. For instance, I am certain it has been difficult for you to refrain from returning to this thread. My advice - though you did not ask for that - if your outlook has been diminshed at all by this experience improve it by continuing to look (as most picture takers do) and when you look, strive to find the good in things and throw out the bad. LOL!
 10/04/2002 04:39:50 PM · #83
My average received vote is a 4.635, so it clear that I'm no great photographer. (I even forgot to rotate my "my corner" picture).

I can't tell a technically perfect picture from an almost technically perfect picture (otherwise I would be able to make tech-perfect photo's myself) , so the only things I keep in mind while voting is if I like the photo, and if it has anything to do with the challenge.
So what I see is what you get, in this case a 3. I don't like what I see: a messy desk and a guy looking at the camera (0 points). But it meets the challenge(3 points).
If I really don't like what I see, or it's so bad that even I can see what wrong then I give it a 2 or 1.




 10/04/2002 04:55:43 PM · #84
Hello damatriel .... I thought that was 'charming' that you forgot to rotate your picture :-)
Lionel
 10/04/2002 06:12:33 PM · #85
I thought that apart from forgetting to rotate it - it was a great picture. I scored you pretty high I think.

John
 10/04/2002 07:20:58 PM · #86
I am going to have to agree totally with cjmorgan59. In addition i,d like to add that ive changed the way i submitt a photo. When a challenge comes up i start looking for opportunitys to shot something within the given subject. I,m looking for utstanding shots. Hang up on your living room wall type shots. I dont want to submit just anything just because its a good in focus shot. i want it to be of the quality that i would be proud of this picture, maybe of sellable quality.
Ive been noticing a lot of people submitting photos just to enter the challenge. They even leave comments like "i knew this wouldnt do well" or somthing like that. I just think that with so many people entering the contest lately that i would wait and only enter the photos that i think are good enough for people to vote on.
And by the way, without trying to be meen. I didnt see anything special about your photo. Yes fhocus was good , lighting was ok, it was the cornwer of your wourld, but it just didnt do anything for me abd by the sound of your complaint it didnt do it for many others as well.
The reason for this site is learning. take critisism and run with it. learn what kind of photos people like. learn what kind of photos you like. and remember, everyone has different tast, likes and dislikes. You can never please all the people all the time.
 10/05/2002 12:46:07 PM · #87
Originally posted by just-married:
FOUR TIMES you have had to use the phrase "at the risk of sounding immodest" or a quite similar turn of phrase; the truth is you sound arrogant.

ROTFL. If by "arrogant" you mean without humility or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth, then I'll probably say no. But if by "arrogant" you mean proud or self-confident, then I'll affirm that without question. And the pride and self-confidence have been long coming, hard earned, frought with setbacks, and worked on for more years than some folks in this forum have even been alive. So if there are any here who wish to view it as "arrogance", then okay, (shrug) I can live with that.

*********

Since you have been such a stickler, in maintaining the details in your posts, I'll point out one that you have overlooked: You asked what we were thinking; none of us asked for your reaction to our thoughts. I find it insulting for you to react to each person's post explaining why his/her thoughts are wrong.

It's a forum -- by defintion the place for discussion, opinions and rebuttles. But if you find the reading insulting then, simply put, no is forcing you to read.

********

FWIW, my voting scale is as follows:
10 = Outstanding (I would buy it.)
9 = Excellent
8 = Very good
7 = Quite good
6 = More than sufficient, pretty good
5 = Average, good
4 = Just below average
3 = Below average
2 = Bad
1 = Very bad


And as good a scale as any heard so far. Indeed, if the moderators were going to afford the members a suggested voting guidline, the scale presented here is certainly much better than no guidance at all.

So kudos to you for that. Genuinely.

CJ
 10/05/2002 12:49:47 PM · #88
Thank-you to everyone who has responded to this thread. Althought I haven't answered each post, I have read each one, and thank-you for the time and thought each of you have put into your replys.

CJ
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