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11/20/2006 06:40:57 AM · #1 |
I'm petty in my comments...but I didn't vote accordingly.
There are quite a few duotones in the B&W challenge, some in the top twenty, no less. Why does that matter to me? The only stipulation was 'Black & White' and that's not a duotone. Would a duotone, that certainly contains color, fair as well in a 'Color' challenge?
Honestly, I prefer the duotones to fully desaturated, B&W versions of the photos. The duotones have more depth, more warmth, and look that much smoother, after all.
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11/20/2006 07:38:17 AM · #2 |
| Huh? You sure your monitor is OK? I can´t find a single shot in the top 20 that is a duotone, they are all just black and white... |
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11/20/2006 02:36:12 PM · #3 |
Oh, my monitor is fine, and there are at least two, but that's not really my point.
Happy shooting, everyone. |
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11/20/2006 02:43:58 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by w24x192:
Oh, my monitor is fine, and there are at least two, but that's not really my point.
Happy shooting, everyone. |
I don't see anything but B/W in the top 20 myself. In fact, I see only 2 (although REALLY borderline duotone) in the top 100. I'm guessing the whole point of this post was that duotones placed high in B/W.
Any examples?
Message edited by author 2006-11-20 14:45:47.
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11/20/2006 02:50:52 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by w24x192:
I'm petty in my comments...but I didn't vote accordingly.
There are quite a few duotones in the B&W challenge, some in the top twenty, no less. Why does that matter to me? The only stipulation was 'Black & White' and that's not a duotone. Would a duotone, that certainly contains color, fair as well in a 'Color' challenge?
Honestly, I prefer the duotones to fully desaturated, B&W versions of the photos. The duotones have more depth, more warmth, and look that much smoother, after all. |
IMHO, you are one of those who takes the challenge name literally too literally! |
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11/20/2006 03:16:09 PM · #6 |
Speaking historically, duotones are a means of creating greater depth of tonality when printing a B/W image on an offset press. If you're referring to such things as sepia toning, cyanotypes, palladium prints, and so forth, they have always been a part of B/W photography. Photoshop duotones and tritones are closer in spirit to those types of images. It never even occurred to me that a toned B/W image was ineligible for this challenge.
R. |
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11/20/2006 03:23:36 PM · #7 |
I didn't dock for duotone images however I felt that there should have been a description added to the challenge. I was tempted to use duotones myself but I feared it would not do well because it wasn't technically black and white. I also saw a few shots that contained black and white as colors and were black and white photographs per se. I know black and white might be obvious as a challenge however it never hurts to clarify what the expectations for the challenge are.
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11/20/2006 03:26:30 PM · #8 |
Perhaps one of you enlightened folks could define "duotone" for me? Black and white isn't the same thing?
Examples would really help!
Thanks!
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11/20/2006 03:31:11 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Perhaps one of you enlightened folks could define "duotone" for me? Black and white isn't the same thing?
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I'd like some clarification too... I've always understood Black and White to be part of the set of images known as monochromes. Duotones (and tri-tones) would be something different and would include more than one color's tonal set. Monochromes (and its sub-set Black and White) include only one color in tonal variations...no? |
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11/20/2006 03:31:49 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Perhaps one of you enlightened folks could define "duotone" for me? Black and white isn't the same thing?
Examples would really help!
Thanks! |
This is a duotone (a tritone to be exact).
I've chosesn a "warm gray" scheme for my tritone to give it a bit more depth and warmth.
In Photoshop, a greyscale image can be duotoned by changing the image mode to duotone and choosing colors to represent certain parts of the grey spectrum.
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11/20/2006 03:34:59 PM · #11 |
I too am one of those that take the challenges literally...some would probably say TOO litarally. It is actually my only gripe about DPC. I see this site as a "Challenge" to photograph something within certain parameters within a certain time frame. To me, that's what is so fun and interesting. Too often I see someone submitting a photo and applying their own artistic slant on the challenge. If a photo in my opinion DNMC I usually vote as normal knocking it down a couple of points.
That being said...I only find three photo's in the B/W challenge that are not truely black and white in the top 100. I have always looked at duotone shots (subdued tones like sepia) as a form of B/W. If it was bright colors I would have discounted those shots and left a comment - DNMC. However, I don't see anything in the top 100 I feel DNMC. |
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11/20/2006 03:46:15 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by levyj413:
Perhaps one of you enlightened folks could define "duotone" for me? Black and white isn't the same thing?
Examples would really help!
Thanks! |
This is a duotone (a tritone to be exact).
I've chosesn a "warm gray" scheme for my tritone to give it a bit more depth and warmth.
In Photoshop, a greyscale image can be duotoned by changing the image mode to duotone and choosing colors to represent certain parts of the grey spectrum. |
i went under mode on photoshop and couldn't find duotone... |
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11/20/2006 03:56:34 PM · #13 |
Sure, I am taking this challenge literally. It had, in my mind, a fairly clearly defined challenge of taking a B&W photo. This is such a simple challenge restriction, it seems odd to go against it. Other challenges do not lend themselves to strict interpretation, again in my mind, and I am more open accordingly.
At times, I project my opinions onto others, and that's risky. I didn't vote down the shots that I came accross, I simply noted it, and moved on.
I'm like Spitfyr in that I find the fun part of this to be the 'challenge' and don't like fitting a photo to a challenge or submitting a good photo to a challenge that it doesn't belong in. Sure, it's still a good photo, and it will stand on its own as a result, regardless of its placement in the challenge. I find that great design is separated from good design by its ability to work within the restrictions placed upon it, not by violating them. Look at graphicfunk's shots in basic editting challenges - all the better because they worked within the rules. |
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11/20/2006 04:00:34 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by noisemaker:
i went under mode on photoshop and couldn't find duotone... |
It's directly under Grayscale. |
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11/20/2006 05:06:51 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Originally posted by noisemaker:
i went under mode on photoshop and couldn't find duotone... |
It's directly under Grayscale. |
and I think you have to convert to greyscale first otherwise it's greyed out as an option.
I find it easier to overlay a solid colour layer over the top once I have already done the b/w conversion with some other method - and set blend to multiply - that way I can go back and change the colour. and I don't have to flatten the image and convert to greyscale. Of course thats not legal in basic editing. and I'm I havent tried to do a tritone in that manner.
Message edited by author 2006-11-20 17:08:12.
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11/20/2006 05:15:07 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by dr_timbo:
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Originally posted by noisemaker:
i went under mode on photoshop and couldn't find duotone... |
It's directly under Grayscale. |
and I think you have to convert to greyscale first otherwise it's greyed out as an option.
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Yeah, it has to be Greyscale and 8-bit before you can select Duotone mode.
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11/20/2006 05:29:57 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by dr_timbo:
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Originally posted by noisemaker:
i went under mode on photoshop and couldn't find duotone... |
It's directly under Grayscale. |
and I think you have to convert to greyscale first otherwise it's greyed out as an option.
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Yeah, it has to be Greyscale and 8-bit before you can select Duotone mode. |
I'm still missing something. What colors did you use, Leroy? It looks like black, white, and gray to me. Gray is just a tone of black, isn't it?
Are some people saying that a B&W has to have pixels that are literally either 0, 0, 0 and 255, 255, 255?
Color me confused.
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11/20/2006 05:35:27 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
I'm still missing something. What colors did you use, Leroy?
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Black, PANTONE 404 CVC, and PANTONE 401 CVC --- Not quite grays
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11/20/2006 06:06:15 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by levyj413:
I'm still missing something. What colors did you use, Leroy?
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Black, PANTONE 404 CVC, and PANTONE 401 CVC --- Not quite grays
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I would still call that black and white
this is a duotone I processed today - but not with the duotone mode, I used the process I mentioned a few posts up
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11/20/2006 06:15:31 PM · #20 |
| Duotone, sepia, mish, mash, it's all black & white to me. |
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11/20/2006 06:35:44 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by tooohip:
Duotone, sepia, mish, mash, it's all black & white to me. |
I'm with you and think it was pretty silly to try to differentiate in the challenge. Nowhere in the description did it say anything about monotone.
B&W doesn't neccesarily mean grayscale.
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11/20/2006 06:47:27 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by tooohip:
Duotone, sepia, mish, mash, it's all black & white to me. |
I'm with you and think it was pretty silly to try to differentiate in the challenge. Nowhere in the description did it say anything about monotone.
B&W doesn't neccesarily mean grayscale. |
exactly - it's all B/W
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11/22/2006 12:39:07 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by dr_timbo:
I find it easier to overlay a solid colour layer over the top once I have already done the b/w conversion with some other method - and set blend to multiply - that way I can go back and change the colour. and I don't have to flatten the image and convert to greyscale. Of course thats not legal in basic editing. and I'm I havent tried to do a tritone in that manner. |
What about advanced? |
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11/22/2006 12:53:15 AM · #24 |
Using modes other than normal is legal in advanced editing.
I better expand on the technique I used - I have slightly adapted this tutorialGreg Gorman B/W conversion tutorial
have a look at his website - some really good portrait stuff and wonderful b/w (or duotones if you want to be picky)
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11/22/2006 02:38:21 AM · #25 |
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