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11/09/2006 01:20:19 PM · #176 |
Originally posted by agenkin:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
No kidding :-) Myself, I'm 100% in awe of people who create an illusion so convincing I think it is real. I can't imagine being disappointed that the photographer played a trick on me... |
If a photographer creates the illusion by photographic means, I *love* it, that's the best I can hope for in a photograph.
If the illusion is created by practicing another trade (graphical design for instance) and still presented as a photograph, then I'll be a lot less impressed with the person as with a *photographer*. This is cheating. This is like using a ready-made sauce in a cooking contest where everyone else is cooking from scratch. |
Sometimes I make my own spaghetti sauce from scratch. To do it right takes hours of cooking. Sometimes I use a good store-bought sauce as a base, if I don't want to invest the hours. In either case, I judge the results, not the process. The taste of the dish is what matters.
R. |
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11/09/2006 01:26:22 PM · #177 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Sometimes I make my own spaghetti sauce from scratch. To do it right takes hours of cooking. Sometimes I use a good store-bought sauce as a base, if I don't want to invest the hours. In either case, I judge the results, not the process. The taste of the dish is what matters. |
In a fair competition the process matters as well. If you are cooking for yourself - sure, do whatever pleases you, no-one cares. If you are presenting your dish at a cooking contest, make sure you add a disclaimer that you added a canned sauce as a shortcut. |
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11/09/2006 02:02:57 PM · #178 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Sometimes I make my own spaghetti sauce from scratch. To do it right takes hours of cooking. Sometimes I use a good store-bought sauce as a base, if I don't want to invest the hours. In either case, I judge the results, not the process. The taste of the dish is what matters.
R. |
But if you told your guests that you'd made it from scratch, would they care when they found the packet in the trash later ?
Or if they praised the sauce and you just said thank you and didn't 'fess up to buying it, is that better, worse, or no different than telling them that you made it?
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11/09/2006 02:05:35 PM · #179 |
Originally posted by agenkin:
In a fair competition the process matters as well. If you are cooking for yourself - sure, do whatever pleases you, no-one cares. If you are presenting your dish at a cooking contest, make sure you add a disclaimer that you added a canned sauce as a shortcut. |
What̢۪s in a name? that which we call a spaghetti sauce out of a packet
by any other name would smell as sweet.
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11/09/2006 02:31:10 PM · #180 |
Originally posted by legalbeagle:
Originally posted by agenkin:
In a fair competition the process matters as well. If you are cooking for yourself - sure, do whatever pleases you, no-one cares. If you are presenting your dish at a cooking contest, make sure you add a disclaimer that you added a canned sauce as a shortcut. |
What̢۪s in a name? that which we call a spaghetti sauce out of a packet
by any other name would smell as sweet. |
Shakespeare's great for thoughts on deception and trickery.
Let every eye negotiate for itself
And trust no agent; for beauty is a witch
Against whose charms faith melteth in blood.
Possibly even more apt for this thread, is that the quote is from Much Ado About Nothing ;)
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11/09/2006 02:32:21 PM · #181 |
Or, depending on your flavour,
The moment you cheat for the sake of beauty, you know you're an artist. - Max Jacob
or I suppose
Art is a lie that makes us realize truth, at least the truth that is given us to understand. The artist must know the manner whereby to convince others of the truthfulness of his lies. If he only shows in his work that he has searched, and researched, for the way to put over lies, he would never accomplish anything. Pablo Picasso
Message edited by author 2006-11-09 14:33:20.
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11/09/2006 02:33:34 PM · #182 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Why would you want or expect any artists to follow rules ? |
Because many of us have erroneously concluded that we have the right to impose DPC type rules on every photograph ever made. |
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11/09/2006 03:26:42 PM · #183 |
Originally posted by nards656:
Because many of us have erroneously concluded that we have the right to impose DPC type rules on every photograph ever made. |
This has nothing to do with DPC; it's, actually, precisely the other way around. Major photography competitions state that alterations to images are unacceptable, besides those needed to fix technical problems. Author's integrity still means something to some people out there, although the apologetic influences of the kind who defend Bryan in this thread are becoming hard to ignore. Calling photographers who care about integrity "purists" is a step in the wrong direction. |
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11/09/2006 03:55:51 PM · #184 |
Originally posted by agenkin:
Originally posted by nards656:
Because many of us have erroneously concluded that we have the right to impose DPC type rules on every photograph ever made. |
This has nothing to do with DPC; it's, actually, precisely the other way around. Major photography competitions state that alterations to images are unacceptable. |
There are differences between:
'stock'
'competition'
'art'
'advertising'
'textbooks'
'journalism'
'personal expression'
Applying one set of rules or assumptions to the others can get you in knots. Competitive art is one of the sillier notions out there. Photographic popularity contests is probably closer to the truth.
Message edited by author 2006-11-09 15:57:50.
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11/09/2006 04:31:32 PM · #185 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Applying one set of rules or assumptions to the others can get you in knots. Competitive art is one of the sillier notions out there. Photographic popularity contests is probably closer to the truth. |
I am not speaking about stock/commercial images - anything goes there, unless the client imposes a set of rules. I was only speaking about art photography. And it does not matter whether it's an explicit competition, or implicit (a regular publication/exhibition). If you declare your art to be "photography", you need to abide by a few basic technique guidelines; otherwise it stops being photography, which is just fine - as long as you make the viewer aware. |
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11/09/2006 04:39:15 PM · #186 |
Originally posted by agenkin:
I was only speaking about art photography. And it does not matter whether it's an explicit competition, or implicit (a regular publication/exhibition). If you declare your art to be "photography", you need to abide by a few basic technique guidelines; otherwise it stops being photography, which is just fine - as long as you make the viewer aware. |
I've heard that a lot in a lot of different ways. Yet what I always hear from the people actually who are exhibiting their work at the top end, is anything goes. Resize forground rocks to get effects like a viewcamera would give you. Clone, tweak, cut, adjust, merge multiple exposures.
Whatever works.
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