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11/06/2006 11:49:07 AM · #1 |
I am new to sports photography and assume this question has been answered in a thread that I cannot find. I am looking at the Canon 70-200mm and trying to decide if the 2.8 is worth the higher cost. Mostly shooting high school games (think friday night football, indoor basketball).
My question is whether the 2.8 is necessary or can I survive with a 4.0?
Feel free to post a thread already addressing this issue if you know of one. Thanks!!!!
-Mike
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11/06/2006 11:51:10 AM · #2 |
| If you're going to be shooting the night games, you'll really appreciate the extra couple of stops the 2.8 will give you. |
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11/06/2006 11:54:03 AM · #3 |
You will really need the extra speed of the 2.8 especially at night. High schools aren't known for having great lighting and doing sports you want and need the speed of the lens to be fast in order to keep you shutter speed high enough to stop the action. Also make sure to use your flash, I know it won;t do too much but it will help bring out just a little more detail.
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11/06/2006 11:56:29 AM · #4 |
I wouldn't be able to survive with the f/4 in those venues. The f/2.8 isn't really enough either. I'm always shooting at high ISO with a flash at f/2.8, and sometimes underexposing anyway.
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11/06/2006 11:57:02 AM · #5 |
It's funny you should ask that question, as I was just thinking about it a lot during the Steelers game last night.
I have a 70-200 2.8 that I use to shoot the games, and I generally use a teleconverter to bring the zoom out to 300mm (I have found the difference between 200mm and 300mm to be pretty significant at NFL games).
So normally I use the teleconverter, but it knocks me down to f4. Last night at around halftime I thought I'd try taking the converter off so I could use the lens wide open at 2.8, and I really felt the results were much better with the extra stop (and I was able to use 800 ISO instead of 1600). Granted, I lost the extra reach, but the clarity was better and sharper using it at 2.8.
If you're planning to shoot Friday night football, you NEED a 2.8. There's just no getting around it. Think about how much light there is at an NFL stadium, and I struggle with the lighting there. High schools are typically poorly lit by comparison -- you'll definitely want to have that speed of a lens. |
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11/06/2006 11:57:11 AM · #6 |
Even f/2.8 can be a struggle in indoor venues. Trying to keep shutter speeds up under lighting typical of high school venues will require very high ISO even at f/2.8. The 1-stop penalty of f/4 vs. f/2.8 is going to really hurt.
The f/2.8 lens will also enable the "high precision" AF sensors, which should help generate more keepers. |
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11/06/2006 11:57:12 AM · #7 |
I was just at a game Saturday night. I could barely use the 2.8 I had with me at 1600 ISO - the lights just weren't bright enough to get the speed needed for action - I tried a few shots on manual at 1/160, but its just too slow. And even then I was -2 stops. F4 is useful for daytime but I don't think its going to help you here.
Funny thing - I saw people using flashes (on camera flash even) with 300mm lenses fully extended. Wonder how their images turned out. :) I was down on the field and there must have been a dozen others...
I have no clue about basketball.
I have no clue about indoors.
the f/4 would do fine for daytime baseball and football (at least it has worked for me). |
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11/06/2006 11:58:01 AM · #8 |
2.8 is almost too slow for friday night lights and indoor basketball.
f/4 is like not even an option.
I've been shooting friday night football almost every week this season for my newspaper with a 80-200 and 300 2.8 and still I have to use a flash sometimes.
f4 is a nice lens, but for poorly lit high school sports, you almost might as well not shoot them with this lens. |
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11/06/2006 11:58:29 AM · #9 |
| Only a one stop difference between the two but you'll definitely need the 2.8 for anything indoor in high school .... f/4 isn't fast enough. Also, with the relatively short focal length of the lens you'll want to shoot at 2.8 anyway to separate the subject from the background and get more professional results....... |
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11/06/2006 11:59:01 AM · #10 |
I shoot a lot of sports for newspaper and magazine. At night 2.8 often feels like it's not enough.
Plus, the bigger the apeture, the more you can throw the background out of focus whcih helps seperate the subjects from the background. The longer the lens you shoot the more OOF you can get OOF areas as well.
Here is the formula for sports.
Fast Lens (2.8 or faster) + long lens + Isolated crops + height of action = good shots |
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11/06/2006 12:02:21 PM · #11 |
Last year, I shot high school basketball primarily with my 50 f/1.4 and stuck with action under the net with rather good results.
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11/06/2006 12:02:51 PM · #12 |
| All the comments are very helpful. As a follow up, for those who believe the 2.8 is almost not as helpful as it could be, what do you do to try and compensate for that? |
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11/06/2006 12:03:10 PM · #13 |
On a Canon body like the 30D when you use a 2.8 or larger aperture lens extra focus sensors are turned on giving you faster and more precise focusing. This is of course important during sports.
For low light or hand holding get the IS version of the lens. Yes, It's another $500, but it's worth it unless you're on a tripod all the time. You will get a lot more useable shots.
As for using a TC - if you use the canon TC's the camera bodies are programmed to show the 1 stop lower and also programmed to focus slower.
My friend has a canon 300 F4 IS lens and it's awesome and can be had used for $900 ish. It's not the 300 2.8 (and not that cost or weight) but it may be a better choice than a 70-200 2.8 with a TC on it. The canon TC runs $275ish BTW
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11/06/2006 12:05:25 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by drwranger7:
All the comments are very helpful. As a follow up, for those who believe the 2.8 is almost not as helpful as it could be, what do you do to try and compensate for that? |
Use a flash.
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11/06/2006 12:09:47 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by drwranger7:
All the comments are very helpful. As a follow up, for those who believe the 2.8 is almost not as helpful as it could be, what do you do to try and compensate for that? |
Indoors I light with strobes. Almost all indoor arena sports are used to having to have strobes. I hang em from the catwalks, or from the back of bleachers or even on poles in the corner of the gym. Friday night Highschool football is one of the hardest sports photography situations you will ever face. And, it don't pay worth squat unless you sell to parents or work in one of th crazy High School Football parts of the country. |
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11/06/2006 12:49:57 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by strangeghost:
If you're going to be shooting the night games, you'll really appreciate the extra couple of stops the 2.8 will give you. |
Actually, the difference between f4 and f2.8 is only one stop.
If you really want a kick a$$ sports lens, you need one of these:
Canon 200mm f1.8
Not to mention, you'll make every other photog there jealous (unless they have one too).
Don't bother looking for a new one Canon stopped making them several years ago since some of the elements contain arsenic. Used and in good shape, they sell for $3500 - $4500, assuming that you can find one. |
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11/06/2006 12:58:17 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by drwranger7:
All the comments are very helpful. As a follow up, for those who believe the 2.8 is almost not as helpful as it could be, what do you do to try and compensate for that? |
Use a flash. |
Not an option most of the time. Flash range is very limitted to start. Then regulations could keep you from using flash.
I used to shoot College Basketball and NCAA Rules prohibit flash photography during play. I'm not sure about HS ball, but I'm sure it's not welcomed, if not prohibitted.
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11/06/2006 01:04:17 PM · #18 |
I would have originally thought this would be useless... until I tried it myself. If the regulations don't prohibit the use of a flash, TRY IT. I used it during a semi-pro game played at a high school stadium once, and it really did make a significant difference. I was pleasantly surprised.
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by drwranger7:
All the comments are very helpful. As a follow up, for those who believe the 2.8 is almost not as helpful as it could be, what do you do to try and compensate for that? |
Use a flash. |
Not an option most of the time. Flash range is very limitted to start. Then regulations could keep you from using flash.
I used to shoot College Basketball and NCAA Rules prohibit flash photography during play. I'm not sure about HS ball, but I'm sure it's not welcomed, if not prohibitted. |
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11/06/2006 01:17:29 PM · #19 |
| I have a friend who is a very excellent wildlife photographer - birds particularly. He uses a Better Beamer - a $40 device described on Luminous Landscape. While it is used primarily in outdoor wildlife situations, I am definitely going to give it a try for sports...both indoors and out. Be aware that it is recommended mainly for 300mm or longer lenses. |
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11/06/2006 01:24:10 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by jemison:
I have a friend who is a very excellent wildlife photographer - birds particularly. He uses a Better Beamer - a $40 device described on Luminous Landscape. While it is used primarily in outdoor wildlife situations, I am definitely going to give it a try for sports...both indoors and out. Be aware that it is recommended mainly for 300mm or longer lenses. |
I just this weekend recieved mine. Bought from FM forums brand new. I'm going to give it a try with a long lens hopefully sometime this week.
As far as flash in high school sports. I have only been warned by my editor that flash on certain sports is prohibited, and that goes by a referee by referee basis. Some dont mind it at all. Besides who is going to go into the stands and stop all the moms and dads from flashing their digitals through out the game?
And as far as F2.8 vs. F4 huge difference in night time sports. For basketball I just purchased the 85f1.8 to shoot indoor with. And football I shoot with the 70-200 @f2.8 1600ISO and flash in ETTL with some FEC dialed in usually. With good results. But my suggestion would be buy the best flash you can afford.
MattO
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11/06/2006 10:08:17 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by strangeghost:
If you're going to be shooting the night games, you'll really appreciate the extra couple of stops the 2.8 will give you. |
Actually, the difference between f4 and f2.8 is only one stop.
If you really want a kick a$$ sports lens, you need one of these:
Canon 200mm f1.8
Not to mention, you'll make every other photog there jealous (unless they have one too).
Don't bother looking for a new one Canon stopped making them several years ago since some of the elements contain arsenic. Used and in good shape, they sell for $3500 - $4500, assuming that you can find one. |
That is some lens if I've ever seen one!!!! |
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11/06/2006 10:39:38 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by drwranger7:
All the comments are very helpful. As a follow up, for those who believe the 2.8 is almost not as helpful as it could be, what do you do to try and compensate for that? |
Use a flash. |
Not an option most of the time. Flash range is very limitted to start. Then regulations could keep you from using flash.
I used to shoot College Basketball and NCAA Rules prohibit flash photography during play. I'm not sure about HS ball, but I'm sure it's not welcomed, if not prohibitted. |
I use flash in high school sports regularly with no problems. College/NCAA is a different thing altogether, but you mentioned HS sports specifically.
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11/07/2006 03:54:46 AM · #23 |
You will die with f/4. You need 2.8. It is often difficult/impossible/impracticle to shoot with flash. Here, you can shoot HS with flash, but it's not very helpful anyways.
I reccomend going to Home Hardware and buying a giant set of floodlights, the industrial yellow ones that plug into the wall. Aim them at the court. Okay, maybe not. |
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