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11/06/2006 12:25:37 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Water is water is water. Nuking it isn't going to change it except for the temperature... |
That's true, if the water was purified before going in the microwave, it shouldn't matter at all if it was microwaved or not. Unless (as someone said before) the water wasn't allowed to cool before. If anything, microwaving it would kill off some harmful bacteria. Like the Doc said, water is water, I doubt there's anything you can do to it by microwaving (and microwaving alone) that could kill a plant,
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11/06/2006 12:29:01 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Water is water is water. Nuking it isn't going to change it except for the temperature... |
We should be clearer in our terms if we're going to talk science ... you are not "nuking" it -- there is no nuclear energy involved. You are bombarding the water with microwaves (same as radio waves), which "excite" the water molecules by making them vibrate (water is a "polar" molecule; it has poles like a magnet) and thus heating them. "Zapping" is a better term.
It takes (quite a bit) of directly applied electrical energy to actually dissociate water into its constituent hydrogen and oxygen atoms, which is one reason we don't have cheap hydrogen fuel cells yet.
Heating the water may drive off most of the dissolved gasses and chlorine/chloramine (added to most municipal water supplies to kill microorganisms), but should otherwise have no effect on its chemical composition.
A more realistic concern should be about all the microwaves passing through your body right this minute from radio, TV, cell phone antennnas, etc. There's (disputed) evidence from as far back as the mid-1970s that people who live near radar installations or fly reconnaisance aircraft suffer a far higher than usual rate of cataracts -- clouding of the lens of the eye -- possibly due to the denaturing of its proteins by excessive microwave exposure (think of what happens to egg whites when you heat them). For a prescient perspective on this problem I highly recommend the novella Waldo by Robert A. Heinlein, written before the development of the microwave oven. |
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11/06/2006 12:36:53 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
A more realistic concern should be about all the microwaves passing through your body right this minute from radio, TV, cell phone antennnas, etc. There's (disputed) evidence from as far back as the mid-1970s that people who live near radar installations or fly reconnaisance aircraft suffer a far higher than usual rate of cataracts -- clouding of the lens of the eye -- possibly due to the denaturing of its proteins by excessive microwave exposure (think of what happens to egg whites when you heat them). For a prescient perspective on this problem I highly recommend the novella Waldo by Robert A. Heinlein, written before the development of the microwave oven. |
I think the reconaissance pilots are more likely to suffer from the x-ray exposure of being at altitude than microwaves. |
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11/06/2006 12:53:38 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I think the reconaissance pilots are more likely to suffer from the x-ray exposure of being at altitude than microwaves. |
That would probably increase cancer rates (also seen, I think), but shouldn't affect cataract formation. Also, the planes probably have some shielding against cosmic radiation, but the microwaves are being generated in the plane itself, probably leading to a far higher exposure. |
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11/06/2006 01:20:45 AM · #30 |
| Or, could be the photo is just fake. Take one live plant, one dead plant, and slap any labels you want on them. |
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11/06/2006 01:22:59 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by viajero:
Or, could be the photo is just fake. Take one live plant, one dead plant, and slap any labels you want on them. |
What? Photographic fakery?? What is the world coming to? ;-)
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11/06/2006 01:25:02 AM · #32 |
Snopes to the rescue
Boiling Point <-- debunks the OP.
Plastic-Tac-Toe <-- debunks the dangers of microwaving plastic.
David
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11/06/2006 01:32:36 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by David.C:
Snopes to the rescue
Boiling Point <-- debunks the OP.
Plastic-Tac-Toe <-- debunks the dangers of microwaving plastic.
David |
From that Snopes article:
Dr. Rolf Halden of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health advises:
In general, whenever you heat something you increase the likelihood of pulling chemicals out. Chemicals can be released from plastic packaging materials like the kinds used in some microwave meals. If you are cooking with plastics or using plastic utensils, the best thing to do is to follow the directions and only use plastics that are specifically meant for cooking. Inert containers are best, for example heat-resistant glass, ceramics and good old stainless steel.
It's the same principle as pregnant women being told to cook in cast iron, since it increases the iron content of their food. Whatever you cook your meal in, you're going to end up eating a little bit of it thanks to absorption. The research of what exactly happens when you microwave plastic is still being conducted, and, as I mentioned, I know someone firsthand who is researching this very thing. Even if the jury is officially still out, I don't much like the idea of eating plastic chemicals, and that's precisely what happens.
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11/06/2006 01:36:47 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by David.C:
Snopes to the rescue
Plastic-Tac-Toe <-- debunks the dangers of microwaving plastic.
David |
This is not a complete "debunking" -- merely that the effects/dangers may be exaggerated and that we don't have all the information yet. For example, from the "explanation" part of the article:
"... the best thing to do is to follow the directions and only use plastics that are specifically meant for cooking." (emphasis added)
This suggests that there are some plastics not meant for cooking; the consequences of using one of those is not clear. And the young lady's experiments clearly indicated that substances can move from the plastic to the food -- what we don't know is how readily this occurs in real-world applications, and what the long-term effects will be.
However, I'd guess there are far more things we've at first thought were safe and yet turn out to be dangerous with more testing, knowledge and experience, than the other way around ... |
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11/06/2006 01:45:41 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Nefir:
Maybe I'm being way too literal here, but... was the water really hot straight out of the microwave when they poured it on the plant? That might explain it! |
LOL, I think this is exactly it with someone with an axe to grind.
Water is water is water. Nuking it isn't going to change it except for the temperature... |
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your statement that water is water is water is very true however, water contaminated can be considered poison water. This does not follow that we drink or consume any water without benefit or consequence. I am not arguing the virtues or shortcomings of the microwave as I have not bothered to seek evaluative studies. But we all know the negative consequences of contaminated water. |
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11/06/2006 01:57:23 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
Your statement that water is water is water is very true ... |
Water is water unless it contains deuterium or Tritium, in which case it could be poisonous, though chemically indistinguishable from pure water.
USDA research on tritium detection using plants
Message edited by author 2006-11-06 01:57:46. |
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11/06/2006 06:08:46 AM · #37 |
| 'Water is water' can be a contentious statement, especially when it comes to things such as Homeopathy. I wouldn't be surprised if science discovers that seemingly pure water can contain different qualities, which is the only way that Homeopathy would work (if it does work!). |
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11/06/2006 06:58:20 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by crayon:
But for pondering, will microwaving water break the structure of the water elements? |
Sorry, microwave radiation will not separate water into hydrogen and oxygen. It will covert water into steam if the process continues long enough. ;) To break the structure of the individual elements (H, O) would require EXTREME energy, probably a fusion reaction, or perhaps in extremely tiny amounts, an accelerator.
However, if the heated water was pored onto a plant it would most certainly kill it. Even cold water, in sufficient quantities will kill a human. Mainly through drowning. ;)
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11/06/2006 06:59:23 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
But is the microwaved water purified first, or just random water they took out of the toilet or something? |
Toilet water generally will create very fine plants!
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11/06/2006 07:19:06 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
'Water is water' can be a contentious statement, especially when it comes to things such as Homeopathy. I wouldn't be surprised if science discovers that seemingly pure water can contain different qualities, which is the only way that Homeopathy would work (if it does work!). |
bravo! |
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11/06/2006 08:03:43 AM · #41 |
sooooo ... bad idea to microwave your pets to dry them?
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11/06/2006 10:00:48 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by fir3bird:
To break the structure of the individual elements (H, O) would require EXTREME energy, probably a fusion reaction, or perhaps in extremely tiny amounts, an accelerator. |
I think you can electrolyze water with the proper setup and some flashlight batteries ... electrolysis is certainly a common classroom exercise not requiring either a reactor or accelerator. |
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11/06/2006 10:26:54 AM · #43 |
Plants don't like to be boiled... ;)
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11/06/2006 11:03:11 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
'Water is water' can be a contentious statement, especially when it comes to things such as Homeopathy. I wouldn't be surprised if science discovers that seemingly pure water can contain different qualities, which is the only way that Homeopathy would work (if it does work!). |
Don't worry Bob, we already know it doesn't work. ;)
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11/06/2006 11:25:52 AM · #45 |
Just a curious thought here... they didn't say what kind of purified water it was either. Denatured, chemically purified, RO, city water run through a faucet filter, country well water run through a faucet filter? We moved from city water to country water, faucet filters are useless in the country, they aren't effectual against nitrates and where we moved to the water is very hard and comes through the filter just filled with calcium/lime.
Also, women or men using cast iron cookware to increase the iron intake... make sure you don't have hereditary hemochromtosis first. As I understand it, this is a much more common genetic disorder than anyone is aware, full mutatations or even half mutations need to know this as iron overload can be very damaging to all sorts of things for you. Often times the damage is attributed to other things. Organ damage, arthritis.... speaking from experience here. Also, it is far more dangerous to men than to women. The only treatment so far except avoidance of iron in your diet as best as possible is frequent trips to the vampires (blood letting, just how archaic is that!) |
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11/06/2006 12:56:31 PM · #46 |
Well, despite the scientific explanations the truth is that water is considered the universal solvent. It can appear in many qualities and most often it is treated to suit certain purposes.
The body needs water to survive and the question follows which type of water do you want to put inside you? Consider the academic problem: A reservoir collects water wherein it is bombarded by external bacteria, micro organisms, debri and bird excrement. Chlorine is employed as the main ingredient to kill off this bacteria...but then: what are we left with? Do you think that the body appreciates this dose of chorine? What does long term use of this altered water lead to?
Put a glass of spring water along side one from your faucet and let them stand a couple of hours and then examine a sample under a microscope. The spring water will display the usual play of micro organism. The chlorine glass will require quite a wait for the chlorine to evavorate before it can favor the hatching of this airborne family.
It would follow that it would be better to drink chlorine water because it is free of bacteria. Yet, the question must be posed: if it kills this bacteria what else will it kill inside you? And can it still serve the purpose and what long term adverse effects will it bring about?
The water authorities argue that spring water is no cleaner and may even be dirtier than treated water, yet they can also argue that treated water is totally dead and laced with chlorine poison. I prefer the spring water over treated water.
You can also rid water of all of its minerals, but then, clean as it may be, can it really serve the purpose. Health enthusiast use this water and then take mineral supplements.
Water is and has been a big challenge for societies. If no one is dying or getting terribly sick then it proceeds with its treatment but really, there is a blind spot as to its long term effect.
I do not know what takes place when you place it in a microwave, but at once a flag goes up as to why would I want to drink water just radiated?
I have in the past, but shied away from it. I am first too lazy to do the proper research because it is easier to stop using the microwave.
Water is water but it comes and can be presented in many qualities. A concern should arise when you dicide to ingest it.
Message edited by author 2006-11-06 12:57:23. |
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11/06/2006 01:08:17 PM · #47 |
I wasn't going to add to the thread because the whole experiment has no scientific validity, but since it keeps going on and on....
Here's the link on Snopes that talks about this exact issue, including their own experiments.
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11/06/2006 01:08:19 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by fir3bird:
To break the structure of the individual elements (H, O) would require EXTREME energy, probably a fusion reaction, or perhaps in extremely tiny amounts, an accelerator. |
I think you can electrolyze water with the proper setup and some flashlight batteries ... electrolysis is certainly a common classroom exercise not requiring either a reactor or accelerator. |
I think he was talking about breaking the structure of the atom, not the molecule. Molecules are very easy to break when compared to atoms.
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11/06/2006 01:54:54 PM · #49 |
Re: "to microwave users..."
To all members: microwaving users is a violation of the site ToS and will not be tolerated!
;-) |
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11/06/2006 02:07:54 PM · #50 |
I do not use microwave ovens.
They are BAD!!!
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