What are my rights? - DPChallenge Forums

Tokina AF 12-24mm f/4.0 AT-X Pro DX

11/01/2006 09:39:00 AM · #1

I shoot for a band, I let the band use my photos for their website. the other day, the college in which I graduated and so did the band put out their yearbook. They took 3 photos off the band's website and used it in the yearbook without permission from me, the band or even a photo credit or acknoledgement.

to me this seems wrong. What are my rights in regards to the college essentially stealing my photos for their yearbook that is sold to the entire student body.

Beagleboy

Canon EOS-30D

11/01/2006 09:43:10 AM · #2

Well, if you hadn't discussed with the band the subsequent use of the photos (i.e. outside of their website), they may have thought that you gave the rights away to your images when you let them use the images for their website.

Did you sign any contract for the photos? If not, I'm afraid you don't have much to stand one, imho anyway.

11/01/2006 09:48:26 AM · #3

I'm sure I'll get slammed for saying this... but my feelings are, it's a college yearbook for heaven's sake. Just how much damage could this possibly cause you? It's not like someone stole the pictures, blew them up into a poster and are selling them on the street.

I have had this sort of thing happen to me dozens and dozens of times (there's a photo of mine hanging as part of an advertisement for an event at my daughter's school as we speak)... I just can't seem to find a reason to be upset by this kind of thing, unless someone is really making money off my work in a serious way.

11/01/2006 09:51:39 AM · #4

they are making money off it, they are selling these books for about $60 to 2500 students. They could have asked to use them. For a college w/ a journalism dept, this seems like a large oversight.

Beagle, the band didn't allow them to use the photos either. The yearbook just took them off the website. I do have a signed contract w/ the band that essentially says I own and let them borrow the photos.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

11/01/2006 09:55:20 AM · #5

Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

they are making money off it, they are selling these books for about $60 to 2500 students.

Can you honestly say that these 2,500 students are buying the yearbook because of YOUR picture? C'mon.

fotomann_forever

11/01/2006 09:56:47 AM · #6

Firstly, I would approach the editor/publisher of the yearbook (and yes they make serious dough) and point out thier oversight. Ask for pay, if ya want. If you can't find "satisfaction" with the editor (usually a student) your next step would be to approach his/her faculty advisor. After that, you could approach the Dean of Students.

I'd not advise going to the top first, as going over people's heads generally will cause you more headache than it's worth at a university level.

If none of that works, a court case against a University is "usually" settled out of court to avoid publicity.

Message edited by author 2006-11-01 09:58:22.

_eug

Nikon D50

11/01/2006 09:57:34 AM · #7

At the very least I think you should address this with the school to prevent it from happening to someone else in the future. You've found a hole in their educational standards that needs fixed. Just don't go into it being pissed off. It never goes well that way.

_eug

Nikon D50

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

11/01/2006 10:02:38 AM · #8

Originally posted by alanfreed:

Can you honestly say that these 2,500 students are buying the yearbook because of YOUR picture? C'mon.

I hardly think that's the point or the right attitude. His pictures were used without his permission or even credting him in anyway.

I guess it could be argued that a yearbook falls under editorial use, but that seems kind of a stretch.

11/01/2006 10:06:49 AM · #9

alan, no they aren't buying the book because of my photo, but thats not the point. They could have asked and I would have let them use all the photos they needed, I would have even provided it for them for free as long as they gave a credit or acknoledgement. Instead I found out because the band asked me if I gave it to them.

They have a budget for producing the yearbook, they should know they can't just steal images. To me they needed to go through the proper channels and now Im a bit bitter.

My question was more if I was legally in the right. Can they just take my images without asking?

11/01/2006 10:10:00 AM · #10

My point is: Should they have asked for permission? Probably. Is it worth getting angry about? No.

fotomann_forever

11/01/2006 10:13:26 AM · #11

Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

Can they just take my images without asking?

No, they can't ... well, they can and did, but you do have legal ground to stand on here if you choose to persue it.

Olympus 12-45mm f/4.0 Pro

11/01/2006 10:17:02 AM · #12

thats what I wanted to know.

i will schedule a meeting w/ the person who ran the yearbook this year.

OdysseyF22

Panasonic DC-G9

11/01/2006 10:24:00 AM · #13

Originally posted by alanfreed:

My point is: Should they have asked for permission? Probably. Is it worth getting angry about? No.

Respectfully, I disagree. Stealing is stealing, and copyright infringement is copyright infringement. In my opinion, it doesn't matter who did it, stealing the pics from the OP's site without asking is wrong/illegal. And college students on a yearbook ought to know better. If it were me, I'd follow [user]fotomann forever[/user]'s advice and take them to task, in just the order he says.

And because they stole them, I would make it easy for them: payment and some form of credit, or court.

Just because it's a "small beans" case does not mean it has to be tolerated.

samnotis

11/01/2006 10:27:00 AM · #14

I think they are buying the book because of his picture, so to speak. I mean, a yearbook is a visual record, and though no one picture may be absolutely essential to the body, without any pictures there'd be no body and nobody buying it. You should copyright your image. I think you have 90 days from its first publication. Get a form here at www.copyright.gov. I don't think you can put up much of a legal fight otherwise.

Louis

Nikon D800

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

11/01/2006 10:34:25 AM · #15

Originally posted by alanfreed:

My point is: Should they have asked for permission? Probably. Is it worth getting angry about? No.

I have to agree that it's his right (and in my view in some ways his obligation, for the sake of his pictures) to pursue this to a satisfactory conclusion. He needn't be getting angry about it, and I don't think he is. But he does have a right to be asked if his property can be used, and a right to recourse if he isn't.

mcmurma

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Nikon MF 180mm f/2.8 ED AIS

11/01/2006 10:55:30 AM · #16

I understand your concerns (I'd probably be a bit peeved too) but I seriously doubt you will get much more than an apology from the editor.

While I don't know much about yearbooks, I suspect the only people making any money off them are the publishers--not the school, the yearbook editors or their staff. In fact, I doubt if "any" money was budgeted to the yearbook project for the purchase of photographs (I could be wrong.) Now, after the fact, your probably going to be meeting with an editior that has put in countless hours of largely thankless work to put together a yearbook that they hoped everyone would enjoy. You may not be happy about the way your photos were used, but there is nothing the editor can do about it now... the books have been printed!

Besides, the use of your images, especially since both you and the band were members were part of the student body, could likely be seen as "fair use" because they helped document the years events. Appropriate credit would have been a nice gesture, but given the circumstances, since there is no loss of revenue on your part (the editors have to gain for you to lose) I really can't see this getting you anything but an, "oops, our bad. Sorry."

fotomann_forever

11/01/2006 11:02:46 AM · #17

Originally posted by mcmurma:

Besides, the use of your images, especially since both you and the band were members were part of the student body, could likely be seen as "fair use" because they helped document the years events.

Doesn't hold up... as as student I recieved a rather large "apology" (read $) from my university because the school's webmaster borrowed some of my photos of students for the school's website without permission or credit.

It would amaze you how quickly a university will respond to threats of bad publicity :-)

11/01/2006 11:07:18 AM · #18

i disagree, first off, the band and I graduated in 2003. they do make a good amount of money off the books, its a fund raiser for the college. it doesn't matter how the budget is allocated, this should of been part of their cost before the books went to print.

You cannont steal someomes property and not compensate just because they don't make a lot of money off the books.

as far as copyright law is considered, i own the photos, i could register with the US Copyright office anytime in the next 90 days and take them to court over this.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/01/2006 11:08:35 AM · #19

i agree with you fotoman, my comment was for mcmura

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

11/01/2006 11:10:13 AM · #20

Originally posted by mcmurma:

I understand your concerns (I'd probably be a bit peeved too) but I seriously doubt you will get much more than an apology from the editor.

It sounds like that would be fine with the OP ... I tend to agree that it's important to pursure for the educational value it affords the group/department in charge of the yearbook -- they need to be challenged in order to "learn a lesson" from their actions (which were wrong). I agree with Alan that there's no need to get angry, just to stand on principle.

Your photos do not need to be registered for you to have a legal claim, but only to collect certain damages/legal fees. This is not worth suing over, but a letter of apology/credit from the university would seem appropriate.

Useful Resources:
US Copyright Office
Nolo Press

11/01/2006 11:14:20 AM · #21

And I'll agree with what others have said here... I imagine that if you wished to pursue this, you could get either an apology or perhaps some sort of compensation.

I'm just expressing what my own response would be to the situation (or non-response as the case may be), and I recognize that my stance on such things is not the same route others would take.

Nikon MF 180mm f/2.8 ED AIS

11/01/2006 11:14:24 AM · #22

i agree. i don't plan on suing over this. I will have a meeting w/ whomever was in charge. where this goes is totally up to them. if they apologize and pay a little, a credit doesn't do it because the book is already printed, than that will be the end of it. if they don't acknowledge what they did, I do have legal rights to be a dick.

mcmurma

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

11/01/2006 11:30:01 AM · #23

Well, I wish the OP the best of luck in this matter. I personally would not pursue it, but that doesn't mean it may not be worth pursuing. If for no other reason but to let people know that they should think before using someone elses work, especially without credit.

I guess my thinking is that it happens everyday, in mostly harmless little ways, and as photogrphers we have to accept that sooner or later it will happen to us. How we deal with it is whats important. And in some cases raising a stink is an important thing to do. In others, it's just not worth raising an eyebrow.

neophyte

Nikon D810