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10/05/2006 10:47:16 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by dallasdux:
Just curious, where on DPC does it instruct people to vote? I found where it is "encouraged" but I did not see any mandates or instructions on if voting in scores X to Y, you should comment. |
Not a mandate, but stated in bold within the Challenge Rules: If you feel a photograph deserves a vote of 1, 2 or 3, please include a comment with your vote explaining why you felt it deserved a "below average" score.
I'd like to see people comment more, even if they vote less. IMHO one who votes on the minimum of 20% in a challenge and comments on all is contributing more than one who votes on all and comments on none. (There is no statistical reason to need to vote on all images as long as you vote on random images, as presented automatically by the website).
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10/05/2006 10:54:27 AM · #27 |
been hit with a number of 2's & 3's today :(
no comments
but it doesn't really matter - you can't keep a good pic down ;)
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10/05/2006 11:33:42 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by Jutilda:
No mandate. Just a suggestion. But with as many entries as there are now, the percentages of voting/commenting is surely going to go down. In free study? Come on. I do comment alot, but surely can't on all any more. There are just too many to look through. I am approaching 20,000 comments made though. (hee hee) |
I don't think anyone saying we need more comments is even remotely thinking of you..The Queen of Commentors... |
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10/05/2006 11:51:31 AM · #29 |
Feed back is a funny thing, we all tend to find it easy to give and get good feed back (myself included) but hard to give feedback to the ones we vote lower on. My contrast photo has bombed and I would welcome some comments to understand better how to improve but sadly no comments so far. I do not say this to complain, I think understanding what went wrong on mine could only help me to better judge the other images in the challenge and improve my future images.
On the other hand I do still however find looking at the positives comments others recieve as another way to learn and always enjoy the different directions people take on each challenge. |
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10/05/2006 04:14:21 PM · #30 |
I'll be criticized for making such a heretical suggestion but...
DPC comments are overrated as a tool for learning to improve your photography. There are much better ways.
Comments are looked on unrealistically as a panacea for understanding why an image scores poorly. People argue that their low scoring image cannot be improved if they don't get comments. Sounds reasonable at the surface but the truth is that comments are a dubious source of information at best. They are generally cryptic, are often contradictory and they are usually made by people that have no more knowledge about photography than you do. That really doesn't help that much. Then when you add in the DNMC factor and esthetics it becomes nearly impossible.
Here are better learning sources:
1-Seek a mentor to advise you about your photography
2-Study top finishing images and emulate their qualities into your own work
3-Actually study photography on your own. (I know, that is a tough one)
4-Click the check box to get a critique club review of your images (understanding that they are busy and overworked)
5-If all that does not help, then study more!
Here are a couple more thoughts:
There is no substitute for quality
Photo quality is prerequisite to good scores. Every image you submit should be of the highest technical quality possible. Poor quality will sink you no matter how well you meet the challenge or how creative you are. If you can't produce a decent quality image that meets the challenge then don't submit.
Apply the old adage... "under promise, but over deliver"
Always give the viewer something extra above and beyond what is required. What that means is chose some technical aspect of good photography - such as unique perspective, specialized composition or the rule of thirds - to incorporate into you image in addition to meeting the challenge in an UNAMBIQUOUS way. You will do much better.
Study and learn a new photographic technique unrelated to the challenge topic and incorporate it into your submission. This is one of the best ways to learn about photography and by adding neat, new and unexpected photographic techniques into your images you will contribute greatly to a better score.
NEVER include distracting elements in your submissions
Those are the kiss of death. Everything you see in the viewfinder should support your vision for the image. If it does not then recompose the shot.
Don't submit for the sake of submitting
We are tempted to enter challenges because we want something to watch during the voting week. It is fun to click the 'update' button in anxious anticipation of something wonderful happening. Resist the urge to do that. You almost always submit something inferior.
That will do for starters.
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10/05/2006 04:20:58 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
edited for brevity
DPC comments are overrated as a tool for learning to improve your photography. There are much better ways.
Here are better learning sources:
1-Seek a mentor to advise you about your photography
2-Study top finishing images and emulate their qualities into your own work
3-Actually study photography on your own. (I know, that is a tough one)
4-Click the check box to get a critique club review of your images (understanding that they are busy and overworked)
5-If all that does not help, then study more!
Here are a couple more thoughts:
There is no substitute for quality
Apply the old adage... "under promise, but over deliver"
NEVER include distracting elements in your submissions
Don't submit for the sake of submitting
That will do for starters. |
Well said! |
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10/05/2006 04:42:49 PM · #32 |
Well said ,indeed!
Seeking out a mentor is an excellent suggestion. It doesn't have to be someone with a 7+ average. It can just be someone with a solid understanding of the technicals, that can help you on your way to creating your masterpiece.
Message edited by author 2006-10-05 16:43:15. |
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10/05/2006 04:55:40 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by pekesty:
Well said ,indeed!
Seeking out a mentor is an excellent suggestion. It doesn't have to be someone with a 7+ average. |
Don't think there are many folks with an average like that around here anyway, which is a sad commentary on how harsh DPC voters are as far as I'm concerned.
There are many, many great photographers here (with 'average scores given' far lower than 7) that are very willing to help out. That is what makes this is good site.
Message edited by author 2006-10-05 16:58:13.
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10/05/2006 04:56:22 PM · #34 |
I totally agree about mentors or even just folks to bounce stuff off of BEFORE the voting begins. this is a great way to learn and then see results right away. I started this thread a few days ago. While there were a few positive responses, it kind of died. Any other interest?
Helpers
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10/05/2006 05:09:56 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by tcmartin:
I totally agree about mentors or even just folks to bounce stuff off of BEFORE the voting begins. this is a great way to learn and then see results right away. I started this thread a few days ago. While there were a few positive responses, it kind of died. Any other interest?
Helpers |
Agreed regarding the idea of mentors. I doubt the really good photographers care much whether they are entered in a challenge or not when advising, they will give good advise anyway.
It is hard to formalize these processes, especially when dealing with true artists, but you can bet the farm there are tremendous photographers here at DPC willing to help out on an informal basis. All you need to do is ask them. True artists seem always willing to tell you why they do what they do. Our dilemma is to have the wisdom to sort the wheat from the chaff. ;)
Message edited by author 2006-10-05 17:11:37.
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10/05/2006 06:45:43 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by tcmartin:
I totally agree about mentors or even just folks to bounce stuff off of BEFORE the voting begins. this is a great way to learn and then see results right away. I started this thread a few days ago. While there were a few positive responses, it kind of died. Any other interest?
Helpers |
What is good about bouncing ideas off people BEFORE a submission is that it gives you an opportunity to make changes BEFORE a challenge begins. ;)
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10/13/2006 05:36:54 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by Jutilda:
I am in complete agreement about the high contrast thing. I see some killer shots, but they have as many midtones as shadows and highlights, or MORE midtones than anything. THAT IS NOT HIGH CONTRAST.
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I actually totally disagree in this matter. =)
The Challenge was "Use high contrast to create impact in your photograph."
Nothing stated that you should enter a photo WITH high contrast.
My entry was f.ex. a rather dull low contrast photo BUT where the main elements of the composition stood out due to HIGH LOCAL CONTRAST.
Something wich I think matches the challenge in a perfect and maybe little unexpected way.
Well it may be so that I got a little lower score due to the fact that some people dont read the challenge text but quickly form an oppinion what they think was written...but I am happy as the higher scoring pics really deserved their top-10 / ribbons.
my entry @ 10th place:
Message edited by Konador - Please use thumbnails and not post large images. |
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10/13/2006 05:40:37 AM · #38 |
| high contrast do not mean only black and white, or brightness and darkness. it can be contrasty by means of colours, like red and green for example. Also contrast can be created by contrasting subjects in the photo. The examples I stated above isn't about stretching the challenge subject - it IS the challenge subject. |
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10/13/2006 08:29:02 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by merheim:
... Nothing stated that you should enter a photo WITH high contrast. ... |
Interesting observation - hadn't read it that way myself either. Hmmm.
Speaking of observations, in taking a peek at your post-processing steps for this fine image you mention "selective color" twice. What does that mean? I don't have an option like that in PSP X that I'm aware of.
Thanks for sharing. |
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10/13/2006 09:11:29 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by merheim:
... Nothing stated that you should enter a photo WITH high contrast. ... |
Interesting observation - hadn't read it that way myself either. Hmmm.
Speaking of observations, in taking a peek at your post-processing steps for this fine image you mention "selective color" twice. What does that mean? I don't have an option like that in PSP X that I'm aware of.
Thanks for sharing. |
Selective color is a Photoshop CS2 feature (think its also available in Elemnets 2.0.
You can choose a colorrange like reds, greens, blues, magenta, greys, black, white. Then you can change this range with f.ex. more yellow and less magenta in the "reds" range.
I used it to increase the white in the whites one time and one time to adjust color of the ground and color of the green leaves (more black). |
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10/13/2006 09:15:49 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by merheim:
... You can choose a colorrange like reds, greens, blues, magenta, greys, black, white. Then you can change this range with f.ex. more yellow and less magenta in the "reds" range. ... |
Ok. Makes sense. In PSP X that would be Hue Map or HSL (Hue, Saturation, Lightness) adjustments. |
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