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09/07/2006 06:24:15 AM · #1 |
For one of my challenge entries - I won't say which - I got a comment that said my photo looks like a snap shot. That implies there is something wrong with snapshots. I don't understand. If a snapshot gets the point across what is the problem? BTW my photo was carefully set up.
On another issue, does anyone else think that commenters and voters automatically assume the photos they view, comment and vote on are taken by photographers with the same amount of skill, experience and equipment as them? I have very little of either. |
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09/07/2006 07:05:25 AM · #2 |
DPC voters, on average, prefer set-up stock type shots, posed portraits, sweeping landscapes. Well taken candids can do well here (and often do - just look at the front page) but they typically have to have something that makes them stand above the rest.
Just because you have a set-up shot (or a posed portrait or a sweeping landscape), doesn't mean it will score well just as not all 'snapshots' score poorly. People like what they relate to, what they can ooh and ahh over, or what makes them happy. Sometimes your image clicks with the voter, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes its the wrong challenge, sometimes its the wrong color, sometimes its the wrong day. You just never know.
No, I don't think they all assume a particular skill level of all the photographers. Nor do they assume a particular type of equipment. You can find winners of all skill levels and gear levels here.
They do get bothered by certain things:
Noise - no clue why but Noise seems to bother many commenters, even if its intentional
DNMC - everyone has their list of what meets the challenge. Everyone's list is different.
Lack of effort - if they think you snapped something off just to enter, you may be punished in your score. Not saying they're correct but if they perceive it took no effort and anyone can create the same shot, the image won't do as well as one they think was difficult or hard to get.
Hope this helps... |
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09/07/2006 07:44:46 AM · #3 |
| *Coughs* That would of been me... lol |
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09/07/2006 08:11:39 AM · #4 |
| Snapshot a term historically popular to discribe consumer kodak pictures, also used by some critics, as a vague way of describing a picture as unsatisfactory. As a criticism - it may also related to the term drugstore processing. dahkota describes some of the various attributes of what a snapshot might not include. |
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09/07/2006 08:12:26 AM · #5 |
Snapshot to me doesn't mean the shot was just "snapped" quickly - it means the lighting is flat, the composition is ordinary and usually no post processing.
There's nothing wrong with snapshots, but they arent going to win ribbons.
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09/07/2006 08:22:01 AM · #6 |
Snapshots are for the family album - the importance is the subject first and foremost. They mean a lot to the family/photog/subject, but have little artistic merit and value in and of themselves. So calling a shot a snapshot implies, umm, a lazy photographer, I mean, that the image has no redeeming value beyond the family/photog/subject's emotional connection.
I hope that came across right.
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09/07/2006 08:33:17 AM · #7 |
Sounds a bit conceited, but here is how I think of it:
Anybody can take a snapshot, it takes a photographer to make a picture.
Implied is significant thinking and effort goes into the composition of a picture. The photographer works hard to make the picture what he/she wants it to be. A snapshot is done with very little thought or effort at composition, etc. |
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09/07/2006 08:39:49 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by dr_timbo:
Snapshot to me doesn't mean the shot was just "snapped" quickly - it means the lighting is flat, the composition is ordinary and usually no post processing.
There's nothing wrong with snapshots, but they arent going to win ribbons. |
Right! In fact, I sometimes have to remind myself that snapshots to help me remember fun times are still important.
But for a competition, they're not going to wow anyone.
To me, this site is about learning to take those "WOW" shots. Using off-centered subjects, interesting angles, cool lighting, big landscapes or amazing macros ...
Dave, just looking at your top scoring photos, you seem to get that point, too. Just keep shooting and don't sweat a few scores.
It's like the difference between an email you write to a friend describing your day and a professionally-written short story. They both have their purposes, and some short stories can be written in the style of email, but the heart of it is going to be much more interesting to read. And an editor isn't going to give much credit to the actual, dashed-off email.
One other thing about the "snapshot" comment, at least for me, is that we have hundreds of photos to look at. In 3 months, I've voted on more than 2500 of them. And each takes some time. So something that "looks" like someone just popped up their camera feels to me like a waste, like someone just tossed in something without any effort. As dr_timbo said, flat lighting, out of focus, etc.
Which brings me to one more point: actual effort isn't relevant to voting. My Free Study XII entry is going to set a personal best by a long way, but it took me about 10 minutes to take plus maybe an hour of processing. Some of my entries have taken me hours to set up and scored much lower. What matters to voters is how it looks in the end. After all, there's no way to know what you did; all we can judge is the result.
Message edited by author 2006-09-07 10:54:56. |
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09/07/2006 08:47:31 AM · #9 |
To me, a photograph is like a piece of art. You can have 5 different photographers look at a picture and your gonna get 5 different views. I like to see a photo that speaks to me. When voting, I look for first impression, did it catch my attention? I then look to see if it followed the rules, met the challenge, subjects are in focus, etc. What I might think is "10" someone else might be scratching their head saying "I don't get it" and score it low.
JMHO,
Heather B. |
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09/07/2006 10:02:16 AM · #10 |
| I like properly done snapshots - they are usually fun and spontaneous |
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09/07/2006 10:14:38 AM · #11 |
Some of society's most famous pictures were snapshots, some winning Pulitzers.
Mnay of those same snapshots in a challenge here, would get the brown.
All depends on who the snapshot is intended to please. I have some pretty crappy snapshots at home that I wouldn't trade for anything.
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09/07/2006 10:22:50 AM · #12 |
we don't like it when people don't comment, we don't like it when they do
:)
In the context of DPC, if someone says your shot looks like a snapshot, what they are saying is that it "appears" as though no thought went into the shot regarding composition, lighting, etc.
It's actually an extremely descriptive critique compared to all the "nice shot" and "good one" comments that you'd normally get.
It doesn't matter if a "snapshot" has merrit or not. The person voting on the photograph saw something in the shot and defined it for you - should be very helpful for future challenges, no? |
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09/07/2006 10:24:48 AM · #13 |
I agree but the viewer is the one that will make the determination. I have a shot that I spent quite awhile framing up making sure I had the comp rules intact but I also had to avoid becoming invasive to the surroundings. Anyway it got pegged as a snapshot. Prehaps the person who said this would change oppinion if person was to go photograph my subject.. But to me it doesnt matter sometimes the most interesting photos come from a quick point and click.
Originally posted by strangeghost:
Sounds a bit conceited, but here is how I think of it:
Anybody can take a snapshot, it takes a photographer to make a picture.
Implied is significant thinking and effort goes into the composition of a picture. The photographer works hard to make the picture what he/she wants it to be. A snapshot is done with very little thought or effort at composition, etc. |
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09/07/2006 10:29:59 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by davyaldy:
On another issue, does anyone else think that commenters and voters automatically assume the photos they view, comment and vote on are taken by photographers with the same amount of skill, experience and equipment as them? I have very little of either. |
plenty of people have covered the "snapshot" side of your question well enough to include my opinion...
but to the asumption of skill/equipment??? equipment, no... but skill... yeah... when voting, i assume the highest skill level, otherwise, what would be the point of voting? i assume the photog has the same skill as everyone else, otherwise we just give everyone a blue ribbon for doing their personal best.
i don't really want to be judge on what i've done before... i can do that myself... i want to be judge on the highest standard... i want to be judge on what is possible...
as always, your milage may vary...
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09/07/2006 10:34:35 AM · #15 |
As far as the topic of this thread. Everyone has to keep in mind that just because a photo does not meet your expectations does not mean effort was not put forward. Remember alot of people are here to learn. Which means they currently do not know everything about photography so there are going to be shots that are less than suitable for the challenge, But that is part of the overall learning process, I believe that is why commenting is encouraged here and why the snapshot comments should exist as well as be taken lightly by the photographer.
Pleasing the Voters shouldn't be the biggest challenge on this site.
I am guilty of the above mentioned and have submitted a photo I didn't like just to get into the game. In that case it paid off got a few decent comments and a score better than I had wished for.
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09/07/2006 10:36:20 AM · #16 |
well put, i concur
Originally posted by kudzu:
Originally posted by davyaldy:
On another issue, does anyone else think that commenters and voters automatically assume the photos they view, comment and vote on are taken by photographers with the same amount of skill, experience and equipment as them? I have very little of either. |
plenty of people have covered the "snapshot" side of your question well enough to include my opinion...
but to the asumption of skill/equipment??? equipment, no... but skill... yeah... when voting, i assume the highest skill level, otherwise, what would be the point of voting? i assume the photog has the same skill as everyone else, otherwise we just give everyone a blue ribbon for doing their personal best.
i don't really want to be judge on what i've done before... i can do that myself... i want to be judge on the highest standard... i want to be judge on what is possible...
as always, your milage may vary... |
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09/07/2006 10:43:00 AM · #17 |
Thanks folks.
In another thread I said that perhaps we should have free studies every second month rather than every month, I take that back now, have em every month, they're gonna be the only ones I will be able to enter as while I roam my surroundings for a WOW shot I think I have less than a snowflake's chance in hell of fitting any other challenge. |
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09/07/2006 10:50:26 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by dahkota:
DPC voters, on average, prefer set-up stock type shots, posed portraits, sweeping landscapes. |
Its funny you mention that, one comment I got recently stated "Very staged"......and the rest of the comment wasnt very flattering either. |
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09/07/2006 11:30:32 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by Kaveran:
Originally posted by dahkota:
DPC voters, on average, prefer set-up stock type shots, posed portraits, sweeping landscapes. |
Its funny you mention that, one comment I got recently stated "Very staged"......and the rest of the comment wasnt very flattering either. |
Which just goes to show that you can't please everyone all of the time.
I've left a few "snapshot" comments, and generally I would leave that sort of comment if, after seeing the photo, I didn't get the feeling that it was intended for this challenge, but more that it was something that the photographer happened to snap during the week and thought "yep, that'll do nicely". It doesn't ascribe any value or lack of value to the photo itself, though it probably implies that it got a lower vote from me than other shots might get. |
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09/07/2006 08:09:14 PM · #20 |
| You just need to learn how to use photoshop and manipulate your pictures.They will go from "snapshots" to photographs..Just look at the top photographers on this site.They all know how to use photoshop and are experts at it.Everybody says its the photographer and they are right.Thats because that photographer is photoshopping themselves a pretty picture. |
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09/07/2006 09:02:47 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by superdave:
You just need to learn how to use photoshop and manipulate your pictures.They will go from "snapshots" to photographs..Just look at the top photographers on this site.They all know how to use photoshop and are experts at it.Everybody says its the photographer and they are right.Thats because that photographer is photoshopping themselves a pretty picture. |
Well it's not that easy doing so while complying with basic editing rules.
Message edited by author 2006-09-07 21:03:16. |
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09/07/2006 09:53:10 PM · #22 |
Thought I'd jump in on this one as I received the "snapshop" comments as well.
I guess a lot of it is just perception. I'm learning how to do new things that I haven't attempted before and I know what it took to do that supposed "snapshot" and it was far more involved that just point and click. Unfortunately my score says that this isn't apparent to the viewers.
Someone once said that the photos must speak for themselves. As the photographer I wish my photo to say a particular thing but the facts are that we don't all "listen" the same and in that vein, I didn't get my message across if they didn't hear what I thought my photo was saying. It is all part of the learning curve and I hope that I learn from it. In short, what is obvious to me is information that the viewers aren't privy too. Sort of a hind site thing I guess.
Now, the DNMC (though not in those exact words)in the FREE STUDY is/are comments that I'm not sure apply. I took Free Study as an invitation to shoot what ever one wishes, your chance to shoot photos of things you might not normally photograph, a study as such. Obviously I was wrong here as well. Chalk it up to yet another learning experience. |
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09/09/2006 12:41:44 AM · #23 |
| Nothing is wrong with snapshots. Thats what point and shoot cameras are for. Should they win ribbons, no probably not. I agree with most people here. I admit I take alot of snapshots though..hehe lol |
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