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08/17/2006 01:06:29 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Ok, you can include him, but don't serve pork. And he'll be kicking back a day earlier than the rest of them. Not to mention all those holidays... |
But I think He told Peter that he could eat pork, remember - all that food that came down in the sheet? |
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08/17/2006 02:10:30 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by NoellaSue:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Ok, you can include him, but don't serve pork. And he'll be kicking back a day earlier than the rest of them. Not to mention all those holidays... |
But I think He told Peter that he could eat pork, remember - all that food that came down in the sheet? |
Was that in Acts? I'm shaky on Acts.
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08/17/2006 03:24:56 PM · #78 |
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08/17/2006 04:37:56 PM · #79 |
Acts 10:9-16 (I had to look it up myself so I could seem smarter - ha!)
Message edited by author 2006-08-17 16:41:26. |
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08/17/2006 08:54:50 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by NoellaSue:
Acts 10:9-16 (I had to look it up myself so I could seem smarter - ha!) |
Ok, that proves you can serve pork to Peter. But I wouldn't serve it to Jesus if I were you!
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08/17/2006 09:22:24 PM · #81 |
| No, I probably wouldn't. I'd probably ask Him what He'd like first. |
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08/17/2006 10:24:39 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Ok, that proves you can serve pork to Peter. But I wouldn't serve it to Jesus if I were you! |
Not even if you served it under sour cream sauce?
Message edited by author 2006-08-17 22:49:05. |
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08/17/2006 10:58:25 PM · #83 |
Mmmmmmm.... "L" |
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08/17/2006 11:47:30 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by agenkin:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Ok, that proves you can serve pork to Peter. But I wouldn't serve it to Jesus if I were you! |
Not even if you served it under sour cream sauce? |
you are going to the bad place...
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08/27/2006 01:23:55 AM · #85 |
Thank you for sharing your insights into the Question "What does a Christian look like?" You have given me a wealth of thoughts from which to write an article on this subject for a local magazine. Please be assured of my continued respect to each courageous soul who sauntered into a realm "where angels fear to tread." (Special acknowledgement of respect is due anyone who has revealed a view different from mine. I offer you a heartfelt apology...for what it's worth...with reference to the many unpleasant experiences you have had in your social transactions with "christians.")
As I attempt to "wrap-up" my participation in this thread, I would like to offer a few direct quotes from Jesus Himself & Simon Peter, one of twelve students who formed a nomadic entourage for approximately three years. To the best of my ability to verify, there does seem to be good merit that Jesus & Peter actually said these words. I will, also, be rephrasing Jesus' thoughts "in my own words" for anyone who doesn't understand King James English, and because one of my teachers in high school as I recall said, "You can't really claim to understand a concept until you can restate it in your own words."
By way of one final foundational note: Jesus used a super-human amount of risk when He founded the organization that bears His name. The "lifeblood" of Christianity is found in the concept of GRACE...as Jesus taught it. GRACE as the purpose & as the driving force behind this massive endeavor can only function properly when a human soul (or group of souls) begin to "spend time with Jesus" and His teachings to the degree that understanding Jesus at His core begins.
Since GRACE is dependent on our relationship with & understanding of Jesus and not based in rules, GRACE by its very nature is fraught with a scandalous lot of opportunities for abuse. Myriad are the examples herein represented.
IMHO---If we had the privilege to talk to Jesus "face-to-face" today on any street corner in any city, I believe that those of us who are "drawn to Jesus, but turned-off by many of His followers" would find a true ally in Jesus, even today because knowing the risk...He still thought it was worth the risk to fulfill His purpose on Earth, even if that meant helping a few rather many.
Yet, Jesus spoke some very harsh words to those who would abuse their "power" as His representatives.
"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16 (KJV)
Expressing that in my own words, I would say, "I know what you are doing! You are so afraid of losing your social standing that you try to stand in the middle between two choices. I wish you would make a decision. However, since you won't I'm going to make a decision for you. Lukewarm water is basically 'good-for-nothing', except to give you an upset tummy. That being said,...You give me a royal 'upset tummy'. So, pardon me while I spue."
Jesus' words addressed the externals, and Peter, one of His inner circle of friends, had some great thoughts about the internal motivations of Christian leaders.
"Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock." 1 Peter 5:2-3 (KJV)
Once again, I understand that to mean, "Be gentle to the people God sends your way for care, for education/training, for encouragement, and even for the simplest physical needs to be met, like food to eat. Be gentle, like a Shepherd is gentle with his sheep. The Shepherd serves his sheep by finding food & water for them, and by creating a safe haven for them to rest, to relax, to sleep...by placing his very body in between the sheep and any harm that might try to get to them. If this is not 'you', please resign your post because I only want pastors who really want the job. Being a 'King' is not part of your 'job description!' You are only allowed to be an example, a servant, a gentle caretaker."
That is how I would like to conclude my participation in this discussion. As a Christian, an individual who believes Jesus while rejecting much practice that is no more than "Church"ianity, and the son of a now- deceased Baptist preacher, I would like to apologize to anyone who reads this for the abusive treatment you have received at the hands of "so-called" christians.
I have tried to make the case that in reality...you have more in common with Jesus than with the church people who abused you (and me.) I have tried to make the case that Jesus Himself is angry with the same people who cause you to be angry, and to take it a step further, Jesus (from all the accounts I can find at least) would cite that very abuse as a major reason why He doesn't consider them to be true christians...either.
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt 7:21-23 (KJV)
Sadly, if my world view proves to be true in the afterlife (as I believe it will otherwise I wouldn't hold to it as tenaciously as I do,) then Jesus will speak some of the same words we formerly-abused have spoken in this thread.
"You call yourselves Christians? You actually think that I am your LORD? Hah! I'm so sure!!!! You think I'm going to let you into Heaven. Dude,...are...you...mistaken!!!! The only people who get into Heaven are the ones who actually do what God, the Father, wanted them to do.
"Besides, what reasons do you have going for you to qualify you for going to Heaven? O, I see, you apparently believe that showing great oratory, having spiritual power of some sort, and doing a lot of 'stuff' you consider to be 'good' is what you were supposed to do. NOT!!!!!!!
"Man, after all I did for you, I never knew any of you 'representatives' personally because you never let Me. You never wanted to know the Me that I really am. Get out of my face! You can just GO to HELL!!!!!!!"
All I can leave you with is this. For my time, my effort to relate, my investment in the relationship, I have never had any complaints about Jesus Himself. I have never had anyone do more good for me than Jesus has done.
The bottom line is that my loyalties do not lie with any church or church-related organization. My loyalties are with Jesus.
Besides, I believe that Jesus would agree with Gandhi on the meaning of his famous quote because Jesus (I suppose) has not felt welcome in much of what is called Christianity...for a very long time. :)
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09/01/2006 03:02:46 PM · #86 |
Just to point out that you never quite know what a Christian might look like!
Click Here |
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09/16/2006 04:03:56 PM · #87 |
I think the word 'look like' should be edited, I am not sure it suits the question, but I will try to work with it.
Since I was a young child, I remember being sensitive to Gods leading. I know that he talked to me (through dreams and a still small voice when I was awake). I remember having an inner dialog with him as young as age 5 or 6. I have always sensed Gods leading and his voice in my life even though I really had NO religious upbringing/influence to speak of.
I knew when I stole (yeah, i stole gum or something at some point) and I remember sensing his dissapointment with me but I also remember his continued presence in my life. He didn't abandon me. Even throughout my teen years (got into alot of mischief then too) all the way to young adult hood I KNEW he was there, and that he was waiting for a commitment from me to give my life to. Now what do I mean by give my life to? To quit playing around and acknowledge what he has done for me(list too large to generate) and start getting more serious about my honoring him WITH my life.
Sure, I flubbed up even more after committing my life to him. But when I was 23 years old, I became born again and have since been more devoted in my relationship to him. I care what God thinks about me. I care how I represent him, and I care about doing whats right, even when nobody is looking. I care about going to heaven and I care about mankind.
I am not perfect. But I am forgiven. And I don't take that for granted nor do I want to bask in forgiveness and continue to deliberately defy God.
I Trust him. I have faith that he loves me but I also know that he is God. Ask yourself. Does defying God do anyone any good? People are angry at God, but it serves no purpose, he is still God.
That is what I (a Christian) look like.
Message edited by author 2006-09-16 16:06:59. |
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09/16/2006 04:08:27 PM · #88 |
Kelly,
That's a very good description and could be applied to anyone of any religion.
I would restate the question to be 'What does a person of faith look like?' |
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09/25/2006 11:54:13 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by CalliopeKel:
Sure, I flubbed up even more after committing my life to him. But when I was 23 years old, I became born again and have since been more devoted in my relationship to him. I care what God thinks about me. I care how I represent him, and I care about doing whats right, even when nobody is looking. I care about going to heaven and I care about mankind.
I am not perfect. But I am forgiven. And I don't take that for granted nor do I want to bask in forgiveness and continue to deliberately defy God.
I Trust him. I have faith that he loves me but I also know that he is God. Ask yourself. Does defying God do anyone any good? People are angry at God, but it serves no purpose, he is still God.
That is what I (a Christian) look like. |
Thank you, Kelly! You remain a mentor to me, an example of a Christian photographer (even though I can't match the "photographer" quality...yet.) That you are a Christian is no surprise to me! I have known all along...for reasons I shall now explain...
Yes, this is the "LOOK" of a Christian: Imperfect, but transparent with faults; Trusting...but Trusting God, not self; Sober in mind & in heart because a Christian can "SEE" the true nature/characteristics of God & of man.
In summary, a Christian cannot be seen as a Christian based solely on the physical attributes that may be seen with the human eyes. However, at the risk of sounding like a mystic, anyone who has had "the eyes of his/her heart opened" can see a Christian to the same level that the Christian is being transparent with his/her "core person" and consistent (as much as a frail human being can be consistent) with actions that equal core beliefs.
Bottom Line? It's dang hard being a Christian. I can only imagine that it's just as hard to do anything...Faithfully! Yet as hard as it is to be a Christian, it's still worth it for me!
Besides, the Retirement Plan is Out-of-This-World!!!!!!! 8-)
Message edited by author 2006-09-25 23:55:35.
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09/26/2006 06:53:13 AM · #90 |
With no disrespect intended, I cannot strongly distinguish responses that deal only with attitude towards God as being Christian rather than one of the other Abrahamic religions.
I would have thought that Christianity is only really distinguished from, say, Islam, by the perceived divinity of Christ. A lot of the other principles and teachings remain the same (although sometimes interpreted differently).
cpanaioti made the point more succinctly than me...
The failure to recognise that there are more similarities than differences between those religions is a very great shame: believers of each "look" different (the topic of the post) in that they wear different clothes, they tend to be concentrated in certain genetic tribes resulting in different physical appearance, and they have differently evolved symbolism (architecture, traditions, icons etc). But ultimately, they believe in substantially the same message and thing.
I think that 777STAN's description of the non-physical "look" of a Christian probably represents the "look" of a Jew or Muslim as well.
Is it un-Christian to consider your religion superior to that of others (meekness and all that)?
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09/26/2006 11:50:58 PM · #91 |
With great respect offered to legalbeagle, though I have not been overtly inclusive with my comments, you of all people (a lawyer...I assume by your name) are aware that an infraction assumed by inference at the point of an apparent neglect has no legal bearing whatsoever.
I am intensely aware of similarities between myriad religions, yet since I only embrace the teachings of Jesus for myself, I have learned that there is great wisdom in making rare (if ever) mention of matters of faith with regard to other religions since "outsiders" rarely make informed commentary on others' belief systems.
I do not believe that God makes mistakes. Every human being in History has been created for a reason, has intrisic value, and since I do not believe it is possible to know all those reasons in this life...I just believe that Reason exists and I am happily not bothered that I don't know the "Why?" right now.
When you believe that God is Sovereign (and I do!); and When you believe that God has your best interest in mind...Always...(and I do); then you can sleep at night (and I can.)
Having strong beliefs doesn't make me superior to anybody else...That's your assumption! Having strong beliefs, makes me CONFIDENT! From what I hear, Confidence is Sexy! Am I to assume that you don't think I'm sexy? ;)
 "Say, 'Hah-lo' to mah leetle frehnd!"
Message edited by author 2006-09-26 23:54:23.
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09/26/2006 11:57:25 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by legalbeagle:
Is it un-Christian to consider your religion superior to that of others (meekness and all that)? |
Tolerance is a secular contruct. It is certainly not something promoted by Christianity, Judaism or Islaam despite what the less close-minded followers of those religions might think. The Bible/Torah and Quoran are all filled with examples of righteous wrath and destruction being meted out on non-believers.
So, no, it is not un-Christian to view all followers of another faith as misguided heathens destined to fry for eternity. The Christian part makes an appearance in trying to set them on the 'right' path some time before they check out.
I can't believe this thread has gone on so long (not a bad thing, just suprised). |
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10/20/2006 12:14:25 AM · #93 |
Wow. I just read this thread for the first time.
First, I'm EXTREMELY impressed by the level of conversation. Given the topic, this could so easily have devolved, and fast.
My only comment is that I'd say almost everything I've read describes me, my approach to life, and the teachings I've absorbed from my faith. And that includes not judging whole groups by individuals, not deciding whether God exists based on individual behaviors, and not worrying too much that I don't understand everything immediately.
I don't remember who said it, but waayyy up there in the thread, someone said a Christian is like Christ. That pretty much sums up what I tell my kids: Christ was a very good guy with some very good ideas, and we should all live the same way: with humility and appreciation for what we have, a commitment to healing the world, being kind to others, etc. Deapee's "modern" Sermon on the Mount could have been delivered by my clergy.
Having said all that, take a look at my name and guess my religion. :) We're more alike than many people understand.
I can't definitively say what a generic Christian looks like, but I can tell you what one Jew looks like (and I explain a bit about some of our beliefs - you'd be amazed how similar they are to what's been expressed here):
I'll close by repeating what I said earlier: thanks to all of you for an amazingly pleasant read. :)
Message edited by author 2006-10-20 01:04:16.
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03/30/2007 10:35:48 PM · #94 |
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04/01/2007 03:16:05 AM · #95 |
I haven't been able to read everyones responses, but I'd still like to add mine. I'm sorry if it's been said already.
A Christian will not judge you by the clothes you wear. A Christian will not judge you by the job you hold. A Christian will not say bitter and mean words about another person either behind or to the persons face. A Christian will not deliberately hurt another being, either emotionaly or physically.
A christian will do what they can without sacrificing their families. A Christian will love their friends as much as they love their families. A Christian will be willing to accept a stranger into their lives, hoping to make them a friend. A christian will have patience, but realize that even they have limits. A christian will realize that even they are human and make mistakes. a christian will forgive. A christian will apologize. A christian will try.
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04/02/2007 06:26:04 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by angelfire:
I haven't been able to read everyones responses, but I'd still like to add mine. I'm sorry if it's been said already.
A Christian will not judge you by the clothes you wear. A Christian will not judge you by the job you hold. A Christian will not say bitter and mean words about another person either behind or to the persons face. A Christian will not deliberately hurt another being, either emotionaly or physically.
A christian will do what they can without sacrificing their families. A Christian will love their friends as much as they love their families. A Christian will be willing to accept a stranger into their lives, hoping to make them a friend. A christian will have patience, but realize that even they have limits. A christian will realize that even they are human and make mistakes. a christian will forgive. A christian will apologize. A christian will try. |
I would say that, as a fairly normal, generally nice person, I do all of these things but not in the name of any religion.
By way of a poser, are there more specific things that a Christian does, that normal, generally nice people do not?
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04/02/2007 07:52:58 PM · #97 |
To name a few....
Christians gather together on the first day of each week to sing praises to God, partake of the Lords Supper and give as they have prospered and to pray for forgiveness, strength and guidance. Christians also study their bibles and try and bring others to the faith.
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04/03/2007 09:15:30 AM · #98 |
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