Soft Focus II Results Recalculated

08/30/2006 03:54:53 PM · #51

Originally posted by yanko:

Being so strict and secret about voting makes this more of a competition site than learning one, IMO.

I signed up at "DPChallenge.com", not "DPTutorials.com" ;-)

08/30/2006 03:56:17 PM · #52

Originally posted by klstover:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I'd be pretty offended if my votes were revealed and hordes of witch-hunters jumped on me for this "obvious" troll-like behavior...

R.

I mentioned that is the thing that people might get upset about. True, I vote highly on many photos that ultimately don't do well also. The thing is I just view this as a photo contest and not like we are electing someone to office. If people got upset over my voting habits I won't lose any sleep over it. In time I think once that initial shock of seeing everyone's votes took place things would go back to normal except normal would be more openness which I view as a good thing.

I want to make sure I understand this correctly, beacuse I feel like I'm missing something. It seems that your plan wouldn't make any distinction between "troll votes" and "votes that are anti-norm" and instead relies on the openness of votes to increase the self-policing that people do. Is there actually a method for telling troll votes and anti-norm votes apart?

Self-policing is a good word to use but that's not really why I am interested in open voting. I'm interested in it because I want to know what Bear Music thought of my photo, what klstover thought of my photo, what DrAchoo thought about my photo WHEN they didn't know who shot the photo. Since we get so few comments seeing people's votes is a comment in of itself. That's what I am getting at. We say we are a community all the time but sometimes I have my doubts. In my opinion, good communities share and are open with each other especially when so many people are here to learn myself included. Are we a community or just a collection of strangers? Why are we so afraid to be open with each other? Those are the things I am getting at.

08/30/2006 03:57:50 PM · #53

Originally posted by klstover:

Originally posted by yanko:
Being so strict and secret about voting makes this more of a competition site than learning one, IMO.

I signed up at "DPChallenge.com", not "DPTutorials.com" ;-)

Ok smarty pants. :P

08/30/2006 03:58:35 PM · #54

Originally posted by mist:

I'd also, from a purely selfish point of view, rather not be getting PMs after contests from angry photographers wanting to know why I didn't vote them as a 10.

To me, it just seems more hassle than it's worth to have a names-open voting process. You're just asking for reprecussions on the honest voting majority whilst trying to quash a few dishonest people who seem to be being caught anyway, because the SC already knows who they are.

I dont have a problem telling people my vote.

Heck, give me the option of a click box to show my vote..I'll click it my next vote!

There are already rules of conduct that preclude people from harrassing other people on this site, so I don't see the concern about people knowing what other people do in their votes and then getting harrassed over it.

And I asked for open voting long before this rash of faked accounts and ballot stuffing. If it hits those guys then..two birds with one stone.

If I vote a winning photo a 4 or a 5...I would LOVE for someone to ask me about it. It means I can talk about photography more instead of other crap that seems to be popular in forums :-D

Message edited by author 2006-08-30 15:59:45.

08/30/2006 03:59:46 PM · #55

Originally posted by yanko:

Okay, all that makes sense. Thank you for clarifying for me. :-) I think I probably disagree with your method, but what you hope your suggestion would accomplish is a goal I could agree with.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

08/30/2006 04:00:36 PM · #56

Originally posted by hokie:

Originally posted by mist:
I'd also, from a purely selfish point of view, rather not be getting PMs after contests from angry photographers wanting to know why I didn't vote them as a 10.

To me, it just seems more hassle than it's worth to have a names-open voting process. You're just asking for reprecussions on the honest voting majority whilst trying to quash a few dishonest people who seem to be being caught anyway, because the SC already knows who they are.

I dont have a problem telling people my vote.

Heck, give me the option of a click box to show my vote..I'll click it my next vote!

There are already rules of conduct that preclude people from harrassing other people on this site, so I don't see the concern about people knowing what other people do in their votes and then getting harrassed over it.

And I asked for open voting long before this rash of faked accounts and ballot stuffing. If it hits those guys then..two birds with one stone.

If I vote a winning photo a 4 or a 5...I would LOVE for someone to ask me about it. It means I can talk about photography more instead of other crap that seems to be popular in forums :-D

That check box is a good idea. I would do that also but would love it better if bunch of other people did too. :)

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

08/30/2006 04:01:49 PM · #57

Originally posted by yanko:

Are we a community or just a collection of strangers? Why are we so afraid to be open with each other? Those are the things I am getting at.

Actually we are a community of strangers. I don't personally know anyone here. And feelings are readily hurt for some people. For some, it doesn't matter how many photos I give a 10 vote to. It only matters if it comes from a certain person. That's where the hurt feelings are going to come in with something like that. If you really are friends with someone here, then they shouldn't have any problem telling you what they voted on your entry after the voting.

FireBird

08/30/2006 04:02:23 PM · #58

Originally posted by thomaspeople:

The concept of "Zero Tolerance" is an awful blow to the 95 percent who are not trying to do anything wrong, but do, sometines, make mistakes.

See what happened to one of the 95 percent here:Ipod causes plain panic

sfalice

Canon PowerShot SX60 HS

08/30/2006 04:03:57 PM · #59

Originally posted by klstover:

[quote=yanko] I kinda agree with hokie on this. We already show people's voting averages so why not their actual votes?

Some people would probably quit voting.

You bet. I'm one of those people.
The voting booth is private.
Always.

08/30/2006 04:06:37 PM · #60

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

That's a very dangerous position to take. I frequently give high votes to "photos I know are not going to win" not for any such coverup reasons but simply because my tastes are not in alignment with the DPC norm.

I'd be pretty offended if my votes were revealed and hordes of witch-hunters jumped on me for this "obvious" troll-like behavior...

R.

Yup...

08/30/2006 04:11:18 PM · #61

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

That's a very dangerous position to take. I frequently give high votes to "photos I know are not going to win" not for any such coverup reasons but simply because my tastes are not in alignment with the DPC norm.

I'd be pretty offended if my votes were revealed and hordes of witch-hunters jumped on me for this "obvious" troll-like behavior...

R.

Yup...

Nope. :P

08/30/2006 04:12:16 PM · #62

Originally posted by sfalice:

Originally posted by klstover:
[quote=yanko] I kinda agree with hokie on this. We already show people's voting averages so why not their actual votes?

Some people would probably quit voting.

You bet. I'm one of those people.
The voting booth is private.
Always.

Private voting was not designed to encourage voting as much as discourage death and dismemberment from angry mobs (or other reprecussions). The offshoot of the average person not fearing for their life is..they participate more.

We have no fear of harm like that here. Egos might get bruised but if someone is your friend and you vote them a 4..I think they will still be your friend..if they WERE your friend.

Anyways..I can understand many people are not as daring as I might be or others...so give me that check box...

I will also be doing my first base jump during bridge day in October ( base jumping is parachuting off land objects like building, bridges, towers, cliffs) and my wife won't be joining me so I can relate to different strokes!

Message edited by author 2006-08-30 16:13:47.

08/30/2006 04:18:23 PM · #63

Originally posted by hokie:

We have no fear of harm like that here.

I personally have *never* been criticized* for a vote or comment made but some people have; isn't that why there's the "anonomyous during voting" option for paid members?

edit: *during the voting process, through PMs

Message edited by author 2006-08-30 16:23:48.

08/30/2006 04:23:50 PM · #64

Originally posted by klstover:

Originally posted by hokie:
We have no fear of harm like that here.

I personally have *never* been criticized for a vote or comment made but some people have; isn't that why there's the "anonomyous during voting" option for paid members?

That is too bad that people have to jump on others either in public forums or in e-mail because they like vanilla icecream and you like chocolate.

There are lots of people that don't care if your tastes differ and you have a fit about it. But I can see others might be afraid of having people know their tastes differ.

Message edited by author 2006-08-30 16:24:18.

08/30/2006 04:25:38 PM · #65

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by klstover:

Originally posted by yanko:
Being so strict and secret about voting makes this more of a competition site than learning one, IMO.

I signed up at "DPChallenge.com", not "DPTutorials.com" ;-)

Ok smarty pants. :P

Hehe, she told you :-P

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

08/30/2006 04:35:30 PM · #66

Originally posted by hokie:

I agree.

Nald

Nikon D700

08/30/2006 04:37:33 PM · #67

I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in here as well. I've noticed that a majority of the "poor" votes in open challenges come from accounts w/out cameras. This is just my wannabe detective work so take that for what it's worth. Now I'm not saying that people that come here who don't / can't afford a digital camera don't have a good vote or opinion to throw our direction, it just seems to me that that is the first place this type of behavior starts.

I also have all the faith in the world that the SC / D&L know what the hell they are doing and are doing everything they can in regards to this unfortunate turn of events. I guess in a way it's a complement to this site and it's photographers, there isn't a single photography site that I've come across that matches the skill or greatness that is DPC. So I guess when you get kicked out of DPC it's worth it to these people to lie, cheat and seal their way back in.

I also find it sad that because of these people's actions, time is wasted in policing the site rather than development time towards improvements and the like.

This type of behavior hurts us all in the end.

Anyway, JM2C. Sorry if I babble..

Message edited by author 2006-08-30 16:39:59.

Ken

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/30/2006 04:38:07 PM · #68

Originally posted by klstover:

Originally posted by hokie:
We have no fear of harm like that here.

I personally have *never* been criticized* for a vote or comment made but some people have; isn't that why there's the "anonomyous during voting" option for paid members?

edit: *during the voting process, through PMs

You're a high voter so I imagine that you won't get too many complaints. However, others would be probably get hammered. I like the idea giving the voter the option of reveal votes. I would certainly reveal mine and explain if asked why I gave a low (or high vote).

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

08/30/2006 04:44:16 PM · #69

Originally posted by hokie:

If I vote a winning photo a 4 or a 5...I would LOVE for someone to ask me about it. It means I can talk about photography more instead of other crap that seems to be popular in forums :-D

D I T T O.

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Nikon

08/30/2006 04:46:01 PM · #70

Originally posted by mad_brewer:

Originally posted by klstover:

Originally posted by hokie:
We have no fear of harm like that here.

I personally have *never* been criticized* for a vote or comment made but some people have; isn't that why there's the "anonomyous during voting" option for paid members?

edit: *during the voting process, through PMs

You're a high voter so I imagine that you won't get too many complaints. However, others would be probably get hammered. I like the idea giving the voter the option of reveal votes. I would certainly reveal mine and explain if asked why I gave a low (or high vote).

I am not a real high voter. Sometimes my sugar is low :-P But mostly I am jaded....I work around technical experts in imaging all day long and that stuff just doesn't impress me much anymore. I love people who look like they shoot because they have something to say. Look at my photos...I let technical stuff slide all over nowadays.

I need a check box to reveal my votes because I vote 100% in every challenge I vote on and I don't have time to comment. BUT...if I revealed my votes and people sought me out..I could talk to those that cared to ask me.

This is a selfish thing cause what I am hoping is I might learn something from some other passionate photographers :-P

Message edited by author 2006-08-30 16:46:51.

jdannels

Nikon D300s

08/30/2006 04:46:41 PM · #71

It doesn't seem like any changes in the system are needed as cheaters are getting caught. Even if you showed how you voted to everyone, the ghosts accounts being used don't need to respond to anyone on why they gave low votes, they probably wouldn't even check their email as that accounts may be made up also. And honestly I think the site would go to hell if everyone saw eachother's vote and the fingerpointing at who the trolls have been/are and those people tryig to defend themselves in the forums would clog them up constantly. Just my 2 cents.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

08/30/2006 04:47:16 PM · #72

Life is too short to read this entire thread, but what if we required validation on each user's first entry? It would reinforce the need to read the rules, and many cameras record serial numbers in the EXIF data, so we could simply look for matches.

08/30/2006 04:47:45 PM · #73

Originally posted by hokie:

It means I can talk about photography more instead of other crap that seems to be popular in forums :-D

ie Voting rants and cheater discussions... you may be on to something.

08/30/2006 04:48:15 PM · #74

Originally posted by scalvert:

awesome!

oh and other sites like fotofight (ick) require a user to enter like two challenges before they can vote. Not a bad idea in conjuction with yous.

Message edited by author 2006-08-30 16:50:32.