Comments made easy - DPChallenge Forums

08/03/2006 06:17:16 PM · #1

I'm not sure if this has been suggested before, but I'd like to offer a way to make it easier for people to give their opinions on photos without having to write a complete comment.

My suggestion is that we have a few check boxes on each voting page that display the most common photography errors. For example the list might include

[ ] Over/Underexposed [ ] Poor Composition [ ] Overprocessed [ ] DNMC... etc.

If people want to, they could just check all that they think apply, perhaps leave an additional comment, and then vote. The result could generate an automated comment for the person and could show up in the voting tally so the person could easily see how many people thought the photo had the same problems. This will allow people to give and receive more feedback, especially in the 4- to 5-rated photos that usually have so few comments.

Could this work?

Beetle

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

08/03/2006 06:35:57 PM · #2

I'm not sure if it would work, but perhaps a trial run could be good, followed by some feedback from everybody to refine it.

I often read that Langdon doesn't have much time for this website due to his real life/job, so I guess he wouldn't want to do this.

However, I bet there'd be a few capable and willing volunteers.

Canon EOS-20D

08/03/2006 06:44:24 PM · #3

Kinda like this...

thegrandwazoo

Nikon D750

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

08/03/2006 06:50:26 PM · #4

Originally posted by mk:

Kinda like this...

WOW! That's Rockin'! LOL

Ken did that? COOL!

Message edited by author 2006-08-03 18:51:41.

Delta_6

Canon EOS-7D

08/03/2006 06:53:08 PM · #5

MK that's one hell of a job you've done there, I'd love it for that to be the way voting is done. It would give feedback on exactly where people think the photo is weak. Of course, it would take more time to vote, perhaps we could have a standard and and advanced type of voting?

hanneke

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/03/2006 06:56:21 PM · #6

Originally posted by mk:

Kinda like this...

doesn't work?

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

08/03/2006 07:16:11 PM · #7

I didn't do anything besides bookmark it. That's Art Roflmao's doing. :)

TooCool

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

08/03/2006 07:40:21 PM · #8

I don't like the idea. I'd rather have a couple of real comments than a bunch of cut and pastes...

CEJ

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

08/03/2006 07:55:06 PM · #9

Actually Art's tool is very nice and is 100% customizeable in every area as far as comment goes. I like it, bookmarked now too.

Nice work Ken!

Message edited by author 2006-08-03 19:55:50.

08/04/2006 12:11:05 AM · #10

I really love that setup, but it's slightly different than I was thinking. On that page, people have to rate each photo on several criteria in order to vote on it. What I'm suggesting is just to have several check boxes under each photo, which people can check or not when they vote. Checking a box would let the photographer know that the photo has one or more common problems, such as bad composition, overexposure, poor subject, etc. That way, people can just check a box to give people feedback on the most common photographic problems, rather than having to write it all out. Of course, they could still leave comments as well, but this way makes it easier to provide basic feedback.

08/04/2006 12:48:58 AM · #11

Ok - that tool was built shortly after I joined DPC and made the same suggestion about changing the voting to be more helpful or informative. Apparently the suggestion had been made before me and many times since. What invariably ensues is an argument over what the categories should or should not be, etc.

Then there are those who defy logic and reason and say they would rather have no comments than "canned" comments. First of all, the comments whether pasted in or typed in, reflect my opinion, reaction, observation, etc. The tool simply makes it easier to make the comments that I make anyway. Additionally, the categories force me to think about the photo more and try to provide a more detailed account of my opinion of the image. Nothing in the tool stops me from typing a long winded dissertation on how the third water drop from the left looks a little blurry and is distracting - I can still type manually if so moved.

The alternative in terms of getting comments from me is potentially few words addressing one or two aspects of the shot, or no comment at all - just click the number and move on. For the life of me, I cannot figure out how this alternative is preferrable to me using the tool. Again, it is NOT a choice between:
- Partially canned comments and MY view of the categorization and weighting of those scores OR
- A well thought out critique like you might get from the Critique Club.

It is usually the choice of a detailed comment that reflects my opinion and gives you an accurate picture of how I voted on it OR a short "Great job" and a click. And for the record, however I choose to comment- that is MY choice, not the recipient of the comments however they are entered. If the recipient doesn't like them or thinks a robot entered them, they can ignore and not mark helpful. That's how the system is setup like it or not.

So, all that said, anyone is free to use the tool as often as you want. It is relatively simple to use - just select whether you want to have your final vote averaged from the category scores or uncheck "Auto Calc Scores" to make it arbitrary**. Then select a score in each category, add an optional comment for each category and add a final comment. The "canned" comments are just things I threw in there the last time I used it. Click a number associated with the numbered comments at the bottom and it will be pasted into the Final Comment line. Then click "Copy to Clipboard" and it will copy it to the clipboard (IE only) and put the whole thing in the text box for you. Then just paste into the comments box under the photo.

**Arbitrary scoring could also be called "Weighted Category Scoring" meaning I might place more value on meeting the challenge than on the technical details on any given photo, challenge, etc. Don't gripe to me about being consistent - I thrive on inconsistency and I don't think it's against the rules. Arbitrary scoring could also be characterized by the concept of "the image is greater than (or less than) the sum of its categorized scores".

Always remember the way I use the tool reflects the way I choose to vote. The same would be true of you and I am not going to tell you your way is right or wrong.

If enough people have an interest, I had plans to modify it a little to allow people to store their own comments, etc. And for those who have the know-how and want to modify it completely to suit them, PM me and I will send you the source files and you can have at it.

Happy voting. :)

Vote Helper Link

08/04/2006 01:11:00 AM · #12

As always, you rock, Ken. Anything that helps people give each other more feedback is good.

08/04/2006 01:36:53 AM · #13

Originally posted by PhilipDyer:

As always, you rock, Ken. Anything that helps people give each other more feedback is good.

Composition: 6 - Subject and verb - check.
Technical: 8 - Good use of commas.
Creativity: 4 - Could've used "You are like a God to me" instead of "you rock"
Appeal: 8 - Brief and to the point. Unlike the post before it!
Challenge: 5 - Neutral on this - it was a Free Study.
Overall Calculated Average Score: 6 - Nicely put, Phillip!

Note: Click for info

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

08/04/2006 01:40:58 AM · #14

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by mk:
Kinda like this...

WOW! That's Rockin'! LOL

Ken did that? COOL!

Sometimes I wonder if he has any time to breathe or use the restroom. :P

08/04/2006 01:44:27 AM · #15

Originally posted by yanko:

Sometimes I wonder if he has any time to breathe or use the restroom. :P

I do breathe, but rarely use the restroom. What else would explain why I am so full of ...well, you know. ;-)

See, I am not all about unsubstantive contributions to this place. ;-P

Message edited by author 2006-08-04 01:44:56.

crayon

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

08/04/2006 01:50:12 AM · #16

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by yanko:
Sometimes I wonder if he has any time to breathe or use the restroom. :P

I do breathe, but rarely use the restroom.

And it also answers why he usually serves his guests lemonades ;)

HBunch

HP PhotoSmart 315

08/04/2006 01:54:21 AM · #17

Most people have trouble clicking one little circle to vote on even 20% of the images. Voting on each image 6 times would really suck. Just my 2 cents anyway.

08/04/2006 01:58:18 AM · #18

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by PhilipDyer:
As always, you rock, Ken. Anything that helps people give each other more feedback is good.

Composition: 6 - Subject and verb - check.
Technical: 8 - Good use of commas.
Creativity: 4 - Could've used "You are like a God to me" instead of "you rock"
Appeal: 8 - Brief and to the point. Unlike the post before it!
Challenge: 5 - Neutral on this - it was a Free Study.
Overall Calculated Average Score: 6 - Nicely put, Phillip!

Note: Click for info

See? He just can't turn it off!

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6D ED

08/04/2006 01:58:23 AM · #19

Originally posted by HBunch:

Most people have trouble clicking one little circle to vote on even 20% of the images. Voting on each image 6 times would really suck. Just my 2 cents anyway.

Which is why I advocate each voter using whatever tool, method, process they want. I am not in favor of making the category voting part of the DPC - like I said, nobody would agree on how it should work anyway. I like it the way it is, but I like to have the option to vote/comment any way I choose.

liltritter

Nikon D70s

08/04/2006 03:25:03 AM · #20

I like it! I like it alot! It may slow down voting, but you get a week.

In the language of my kids "awsome! can we have it, can we, huh huh, please."

redsunphotography

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II

08/04/2006 06:49:48 AM · #21

I think it'd work just as well to require comments on any vote below 4, otherwise the vote won't process.

-Hideo

kteach

Nikon D50

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6

08/04/2006 06:51:22 AM · #22

I think it's fantastic Ken! Thanks for taking the time to put that together and for putting it out there for everyone to use. Some days I just want to click, click, click on the scores to vote, and other days I've spent time doing critiques for the CC. This seems like a happy medium... a bit more information to the photog with the scores and a few quick blurbs about my thoughts on certain aspects, but without feeling the need to write in full sentences.

08/04/2006 11:32:54 AM · #23

Originally posted by liltritter:

I like it! I like it alot! It may slow down voting, but you get a week.

In the language of my kids "awsome! can we have it, can we, huh huh, please."

By not requiring people to select any of these buttons or check boxes, it doesn't have to slow down voting at all. People could juct check them if they want to. The only effect would be to speed up making comments.