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07/19/2006 11:47:45 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by digitalknight:
Give me the option of yanking it - killing it - putting it out of it's misery. |
That option already exists. Users can ask to have their own current entry removed, but not if they've had a DQ within their last 25 entries or if there was illegal editing, etc. |
So how does one do this?
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07/19/2006 12:19:58 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Bugzeye:
I agree with this too, I do this every challenge that I vote on. I always go back and make adjustments after I have looked at all the photos. But on more than one challenge I have voted a 10 for a photo then see another that I think is a better photo I will then give that a 10 and switch the first 10 to a 9 only to see the one I gave a 10 the first time around get a ribbon and the other not even make the top 10. Sorry for the Chrissy Snow wording,, |
In Perspective, one of my 10's placed 168th. I don't worry about it, though I wonder why it scored so low. A couple challenges ago I'd given a 4 to a shot that ribboned, and I stand by that vote since I don't give low votes lightly. The point is that this happens all the time.
Anyway, the way I deal with vote adjustment is just to give an 8 to anything I want to take a second look at, even if I think I might bump it down. From my 8's I bump anything that stands out to a 9, and then personal favorites get 10's. There might be several 10's, there might be none at all - but it always gives me a better idea of what it will take to win a ribbon in the challenge when I look at the 8's all together (usually about a dozen of them) instead of spread throughout a field of 300+.
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07/19/2006 12:20:16 PM · #28 |
I would try sending a PM to one of the SC guys with the request. Not sure if that is how you are supposed to do it but seems like a logical start. I think you should stick it out though. What do you have to lose? Except Dignity Pride Self Worth. haha those are the things I am not gaining in this challenge. JK. Really stick it out. It might get better.
Originally posted by digitalknight:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by digitalknight:
Give me the option of yanking it - killing it - putting it out of it's misery. |
That option already exists. Users can ask to have their own current entry removed, but not if they've had a DQ within their last 25 entries or if there was illegal editing, etc. |
So how does one do this? |
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07/19/2006 12:21:44 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by digitalknight:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by digitalknight:
Give me the option of yanking it - killing it - putting it out of it's misery. |
That option already exists. Users can ask to have their own current entry removed, but not if they've had a DQ within their last 25 entries or if there was illegal editing, etc. |
So how does one do this? |
Find your photo on the voting page and click on the link to request validation. Make a note that you want it disqualified and you're aware that if you receive another DQ in the next 25 challenges, you can be subject to a suspension.
Edited to say that I just looked at your profile and you're not eligible.
Message edited by author 2006-07-19 12:22:34. |
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07/19/2006 12:27:00 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
I had a shot that started in the low 4 range, yet finished with a ribbon. You never really know... |
Wow! Which shot? |
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07/19/2006 12:32:47 PM · #31 |
I vote that the SC add a point to everyones score just to make us all feel better, and avoid potential riots.
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07/19/2006 12:33:09 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Bugzeye:
on a serious side.
another option is show the persons name and the vote they gave in the photos comment section. This would at least help the general public figure out who the trolls are and would hopefully discourage some. |
When I first read this I thought you were joking ... truly you can't be serious.
Who votes and what they dole out for scores isn't the issue here... but rather what one does to improve their own lot.
There are individuals that score low, but if they do so in an equitable fashion, at least we know that everyone is treated in the same fashion.
If individuals have a hard time accepting the scores they receive, why not simply turn them "OFF" in preference, and spend the time voting instead of complaining. I have turned mine off and find that I longer worry about the perceptions of others, and am in a much better frame of mind for it.
Have a great day.
Ray |
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07/19/2006 12:38:18 PM · #33 |
I wouldn't let a low score bother me. Sometimes entries are scored down based more on distasteful subject matter than on meaning, quality, composition, meeting the challenge, etc.
Most voters just want to live safely under their rocks and hide from the ugly underbelly of life. :-P
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07/19/2006 12:41:19 PM · #34 |
Well I am here like many to learn. I can not gauge my experience when the votes never show any signs of improvment in my work. out of 300 people I may get 10 comments. Which half of are helpful and the other are comments like thats Cute... Which is a nice gesture but does nothing to help me improve my skills. So being I get very few comments I rely on that score to guage my progress. I see improvement in my work but have no idea if anyone else does because who knows how they vote? If I see a person that gave me a 5 or 6 and go look at their profile and see that they have 10 or 20 ribbons I can assume that they know what they are doing so I should respect their vote. But if I see a 4 or 5 and check a profile to see Vote only no camera never entered a challenge etc... perhaps I can rule that vote out.
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Bugzeye:
on a serious side.
another option is show the persons name and the vote they gave in the photos comment section. This would at least help the general public figure out who the trolls are and would hopefully discourage some. |
When I first read this I thought you were joking ... truly you can't be serious.
Who votes and what they dole out for scores isn't the issue here... but rather what one does to improve their own lot.
There are individuals that score low, but if they do so in an equitable fashion, at least we know that everyone is treated in the same fashion.
If individuals have a hard time accepting the scores they receive, why not simply turn them "OFF" in preference, and spend the time voting instead of complaining. I have turned mine off and find that I longer worry about the perceptions of others, and am in a much better frame of mind for it.
Have a great day.
Ray |
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07/19/2006 12:41:24 PM · #35 |
Playing devil's advocate I suggest that this proposal will change the voting habits of the community!
On day one there may be say 500 images to vote on, but hey if you hold back voting and vote on the last day maybe there will only be 250. Then the voting becomes scewed and rushed without time to think about the comments.
The proposal has some benefits, but there are potential pitfalls which need to be considered too.
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07/19/2006 12:53:42 PM · #36 |
I think I can help...
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07/19/2006 12:54:10 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Bugzeye:
So being I get very few comments I rely on that score to guage my progress. I see improvement in my work but have no idea if anyone else does because who knows how they vote? If I see a person that gave me a 5 or 6 and go look at their profile and see that they have 10 or 20 ribbons I can assume that they know what they are doing so I should respect their vote. But if I see a 4 or 5 and check a profile to see Vote only no camera never entered a challenge etc... perhaps I can rule that vote out.
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If you see improvement in your work, then what does it matter who scored what? Also, I would not dismiss the opinion of individuals that have not won ribbons in DPC. There are a great number of very talented photographers in here that have yet to win ribbons. One cannot and should not equate the inability of "Appealing to the masses" with a lack of photographic talent.
Ray |
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07/19/2006 12:58:59 PM · #38 |
that would also reflect inaccurately of members.
average score would be much higher for someone who could pull a 'bad' entry at the last minute. and with competitions such as WPL going on, that would impact even more on the outcome.
if you submit something and you aren't happy with the score, grin and bear it, and try to learn why it didn't do well.
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07/19/2006 12:59:28 PM · #39 |
Sometimes I want to pull out early to...so I can clean up my mess and stop anything from be permanent.
Clint
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07/19/2006 01:04:36 PM · #40 |
I had entered a basic-legal version of this in Perspective but pulled it when it was languishing in the low 4 range. I just couldn't take it.
Of course, now I have another image in the same range...but I'll leave it for now.
I think I'm getting much worse the longer I stay in photography.
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07/19/2006 01:08:35 PM · #41 |
not to stir the water but can you show me where i dismissed anyone that has not won a ribbon. I said peoeple whos names show vote only no camera. Perhaps some just dont own digital cameras. However there is no evidence present to me that they are indeed good photographers when they have an empty portfolio and no challenge entries. So I guess it is a glass half full half empty thing.
I was only using the ribbon winners as an example. I would also respect the oppinion of someone that has a row of 7's or even high 6's in their top rated photos... My goal is to shoot photos that many people will enjoy and want to look at. If was only shooting to please myself. I really wouldn't need DPC....
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Bugzeye:
So being I get very few comments I rely on that score to guage my progress. I see improvement in my work but have no idea if anyone else does because who knows how they vote? If I see a person that gave me a 5 or 6 and go look at their profile and see that they have 10 or 20 ribbons I can assume that they know what they are doing so I should respect their vote. But if I see a 4 or 5 and check a profile to see Vote only no camera never entered a challenge etc... perhaps I can rule that vote out.
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If you see improvement in your work, then what does it matter who scored what? Also, I would not dismiss the opinion of individuals that have not won ribbons in DPC. There are a great number of very talented photographers in here that have yet to win ribbons. One cannot and should not equate the inability of "Appealing to the masses" with a lack of photographic talent.
Ray |
Message edited by author 2006-07-19 13:09:21.
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07/19/2006 01:09:40 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by pcody:
dropping the pictures after one day would lead to cutthroat tactics, imo. But, what if the voting on the first day was only open to members that had not entered the challenge? Would that give a resonable enough unbiased opinion to drop the bottom percentage off. Then open it to all voters the 2nd day? |
I think that this might result in a very small number of voters making a pretty important decision. Even if all of those who voted made a sincere effort to be totally fair, the voting sample might be so small that it would not be an accurate representation of the community's feeling about any single image.
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07/19/2006 01:17:38 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
I had a shot that started in the low 4 range, yet finished with a ribbon. You never really know... |
My perspective entry started in the 8's the first night and ended in the 4's :-P
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07/19/2006 01:20:31 PM · #44 |
wrong thread....
Message edited by author 2006-07-19 13:21:39.
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07/19/2006 01:23:15 PM · #45 |
After just skimming through this and seeing so many other similar posts, let me add my two cents (no gasoline this time) - I think people are placing way too much value on their DPC scores. Let me borrow a saying from some famous philosopher "You can't please everyone, so you got to please yourself. Buh da da dum" It has been said a zillion times - if you are pleased with the picture, then you've succeeded.
I understand the need for validation and the excitement when you have a strong finish in a challenge but I consider the comments (all of them) the most valuable learning tool along with techniques described and discussed in the forums. Consider this as well, how many what-you-would-consider-to-be-crappy photographers are out there making a good living? Lots. How many what-you-would-consider-to-be-crappy photos win contests elsewhere? Plenty. What is the makeup of the "judges" on this site? Pretty broad and definitely varied in taste. To judge your progress based on DPC voting would be to aim for a constantly moving target.
The strongest advice I could offer is DO NOT LET DPC SCORES DICTATE YOUR LIFE.
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07/19/2006 01:29:10 PM · #46 |
It just bites to see a good photo get beat down because of the voters who are not really putting a fair effort into it. I know many try very hard to be precise and the winning photos every challenge are testiment to that. But in the process many scores are mutilated by bad voting. People who rush through it people who vote down to up their odds people who only vote 20% of the contest, etc. Ive looked at too many photos on this site that are absolutely outstanding shots then see that the largest amount of votes were 5's. Its crazy.
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
After just skimming through this and seeing so many other similar posts, let me add my two cents (no gasoline this time) - I think people are placing way too much value on their DPC scores. Let me borrow a saying from some famous philosopher "You can't please everyone, so you got to please yourself. Buh da da dum" It has been said a zillion times - if you are pleased with the picture, then you've succeeded.
I understand the need for validation and the excitement when you have a strong finish in a challenge but I consider the comments (all of them) the most valuable learning tool along with techniques described and discussed in the forums. Consider this as well, how many what-you-would-consider-to-be-crappy photographers are out there making a good living? Lots. How many what-you-would-consider-to-be-crappy photos win contests elsewhere? Plenty. What is the makeup of the "judges" on this site? Pretty broad and definitely varied in taste. To judge your progress based on DPC voting would be to aim for a constantly moving target.
The strongest advice I could offer is DO NOT LET DPC SCORES DICTATE YOUR LIFE.
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07/19/2006 01:31:15 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
The strongest advice I could offer is DO NOT LET DPC SCORES DICTATE YOUR LIFE.
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That Art. Always with the crazy talk. |
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07/19/2006 01:38:03 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by digitalknight:
Posthumous - the images would still be in the DPC system, would still be included in your Favs -
As for trolls - for me to be worried about these would require me thinking that I had a shot at a ribbon - trust me that is not what I'm entering challenges for! In fact, a upper 4 to lower 5 score here seems to be what makes my images money makers. All of my best selling stock photos scored in that range here.
Hmmm, maybe with this implemented I could kill an image when it's in that range - thus ensuring stock success! but I digress...
So it's not a thick skin issue - my feelings aren't hurt. I obviously have very different taste than the voters - I'm fine with that. I just need to kill the update button and get on with my life on this one.
I don't want to send a request - SC has too much to do already - just give me a button so I can exercise either my artistic righteous indignation or simply withdraw from one battle to regroup to fight another day.
Oh, and don't tell me that I can turn off the update button in preferences - that doesn't count because it's still THERE - know what I'm sayin? Just because I can't see it doesn't mean it's still not THERE - calling me... |
You still haven't addressed the point I raised about including the scores of a withdrawn entry in your average. This is really the crux of the discussion.
If the votes cast to date are simply disregarded, and not included in future calculations of the person's Avg Vote Received, then you will be giving them a free trial baloon to test the waters with no penalty if the are not satisfied with the way the community receives their shot. However others will suffer because for every image scoring less than thier's that is withdrawn, they will slip one spot lower in the final rankings. An image that was initially ranked in the 55th percentile might drop to the 10th percentile if the bottom half of entries were dropped/withdrawn.
If the votes are still figured into your Avg Vote Received, then what's the incentive to withdraw one's image? You might as well stay in the game and hope for an improving score, or at least a constructive comment or two.
digitalknight, here's a hypothetical for you - how would you feel if you entered a challenge that had 100 entries, and after the initial voting period your score ranked you 50th, then the bottom half were dropped/withdrawn, the scoring held steady thru the rest of the voting, and you finished in last place?
This proposal stems from the still unproven assumption that it is a negative to have large numbers of entries in challenges. Personally, I think it is a positive whenever we can get more people involved in any aspect of the community. I think the current alarm would be better answered with proposals that would encourage more voting. Seeing a rising trend in the average number of votes received per entry is my idea of a goal we should all shoot for in both our own habits and in the proposals we offer to improve the community.
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07/19/2006 02:04:01 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by digitalknight:
The image would be removed from voting, but remain in my portfolio - just like a DQ'd image - comments received and votes would remain intact.
It would still be a part of my permanent DPC record.
I'm not sad that my work isn't accepted, I'm certainly used to that by now - I just wanted some feedback. Once I get that why continue to kick the dead dog? |
It's not real clear but from "It would still be a part of my permanent DPC record." I assume that the score received so far would remain as part of your average. If you have to keep that low score, why would you voluntarily give up on the possibility that it will improve? |
Couldn't the reverse of the low scores be true too though? Someone sees that 1 voter voted on the image and gave it a 10, and then pulls the image. Leaving that 10 in their permanent record. |
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07/19/2006 02:09:53 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
[You still haven't addressed the point I raised about including the scores of a withdrawn entry in your average. This is really the crux of the discussion. |
I want them to still be included -as part of my indelible DPC record
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