Hummingbird wing freeze - DPChallenge Forums

07/03/2006 02:04:20 PM · #1

OK, I got a ribbon out of it, so I'm happy, but I'm also puzzled about the ability to freeze the rapid wing-beats of the hummer. Does the position of the wing make that big of a difference? In other words, if the wing is in mid-beat, is it traveling that much faster than if the wing is caught at the "full-out" position (furtherest extension forward or backward)?

Take a look at the following:

1/200 .............................1/160

These two illustrate that, regardless of the position of the wings, stop motion just ain't gonna happen.

These two are both at 1/500th

Here in mid-beat, the wing is a complete blur, but (at left), in an extended position, it's more nearly frozen.

These two are both at 1/1,1250th

The one at left is nearly frozen perfectly, but the one at right (the ribbon shot) is much more blurred. Different wing posture?? Depth of field?? (both shots at f/5.0)??

Finally, both of these at 1/2,000th

Here wing position appears to make no difference, nearly perfect stop-action that that shutter speed.

Finally, this one from a trip to NM last year, shutter 1/750th:

None neatly frozen at that speed, but not a lot of different postures to compare. Depth of field rears its head in this one too (f/4.0)

I'd love to hear any opinions about this, or see other people's examples of hummer shots and shutter speed comparisons. What's the slowest shutter at which it's possible to freeze the wings of a hovering hummer (wing beats about 80 per second, according to what I've read)??

SamDoe1

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Tamron AF 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical for Nikon

07/03/2006 02:08:50 PM · #2

Originally posted by strangeghost:

In other words, if the wing is in mid-beat, is it traveling that much faster than if the wing is caught at the "full-out" position (furtherest extension forward or backward)?

Well, technically yes because at either of end (full forward or full backward), the wing's speed is zero as it has to change direction. Same deal as if you throw a ball in the air, the speed at the very top of the arc is zero. Though the rapid acceleration of the wing in the opposite direction makes it hard to find that point where the speed of the wing is zero.

Edit to add: Where did you take these and how did you get the hummingbirds to come to this feeder?

Message edited by author 2006-07-03 14:09:23.

vtruan

Nikon D5100

07/03/2006 02:11:51 PM · #3

From what I know, it can only be done with high shutter speed (over 1/1000) or with a strobe flash. Flash also is sometimes needed to make the gorget colors bright. The wing beats are approx. 60 to 80 per second.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

07/03/2006 02:20:16 PM · #4

Originally posted by SamDoe1:

Well, technically yes because at either of end (full forward or full backward), the wing's speed is zero as it has to change direction.

Duh, you stated it so clearly that I'm embarrassed I didn't think it through more fully and take it into account when I posted the original message. I see now that the closer the wing is to mid-beat, the faster the shutter needed to freeze it (or strobe flash as vtruan points out).

Originally posted by SamDoe1:

Edit to add: Where did you take these and how did you get the hummingbirds to come to this feeder?

These were taken at New Mexico Skies, an astronomy guest-resort in New Mexico where I spent three days last week. Predominantly cloudy nights means I spent more time shooting birds during the day than I did stars at night. ;-(

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

07/03/2006 02:26:26 PM · #5

I was gonna wade in and point out that anytime an object in motion reverse direction, it has to come to a full stop. But I see Sam beat me to it :-) Obviously the window of opportunity, at 80 beats per second, is very tiny; even if you're using the fastest possible burst mode, it's a matter of luck whether you capture one of those instants.

Plus, I don't know enough about hummingbird anatomy to know whether their wings ever actually DO change direction that abruptly; for all I know they are "rotating", so to speak, perhaps in a figure-8 pattern, and never truly stop even for that tiny fraction of a section. But even so, there'd be a point at which they are moving their fastest, and another at which they are at their slowest.

R.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

07/03/2006 02:38:13 PM · #6

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Plus, I don't know enough about hummingbird anatomy to know whether their wings ever actually DO change direction that abruptly; for all I know they are "rotating", so to speak, perhaps in a figure-8 pattern, and never truly stop even for that tiny fraction of a section. But even so, there'd be a point at which they are moving their fastest, and another at which they are at their slowest.

Good hunch. While you were posting, I was doing what I should have done prior to my OP, reading. For the curious, check these links:

The best
Also very good
Interesting
Yawn

sacredspirit

Canon EOS-600D/T3i Rebel

07/03/2006 02:46:58 PM · #7

Would White Balance, or ISO play any role in getting those wings still?

When I replay that question in my head, it sounds silly to me at first, because if you have control of shutterspeed, I wouldn't tend to think that either one would play a role in stopping the wing motion, but I've seen stranger things.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

07/03/2006 02:49:11 PM · #8

ISO is a factor, since boosting the ISO allows you to use faster shutters. White balance would be beside the point, I believe.

Originally posted by sacredspirit:

jpeters

Nikon D200

07/03/2006 02:59:24 PM · #9

Originally posted by sacredspirit:

ISO would allow you to decrease your shutter speed and white balance is something altogether different that would only affect the color and not stopping motion.

As for those wondering about how to attract hummingbirds, all you need is a hummingbird feeder (one with some red on it) and a mixture of sugar and water in a 1:4 ratio. Don't add any food coloring to the sugar-water, it should be clear. Lastly, make sure you keep the feeder up and full all the time, so they can learn that your feeder is a dependable source of food. Oh, and make sure hummingbirds exist in your area.

dolphnz8

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

07/03/2006 03:03:40 PM · #10

This is one of maybe 50 that I took to get this action. Took with my D50, ISO was @ 400, F4.5 and 1/400 speed. They are quick little sh**s...LOL. best I could come up with while visiting a friend. I have feeders here but have yet to see one come around. This was actually a 'fluke' capture for me I think.

Message edited by author 2006-07-03 15:05:24.

SamDoe1

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT