Critique: Composition 01 - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

09/06/2002 11:08:11 PM · #26

Originally posted by aelith:
Hokie, I don't suppose you have the time to do that with one of your photographs? Sounds like a great idea.

Mine are not nearly as worthy of comment :-)

The main reason I was interested in this particular discussion is my entry this week went through EXTREME crop changes to choose the final entry.

I will be glad to share all the variations of my Candid photo(as well as my outtakes which are very interesting regarding the topic of candid) come monday. I think there might be some interesting discussion regarding cropping and how it changes a photo :-)

Zeissman

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

09/06/2002 11:09:22 PM · #27

You have some great stuff Scott. I think of this piece as a work in progress, you have some nice finished pieces.

chariot

Olympus C-3030Z

09/07/2002 12:37:38 AM · #28

It's stark.

At first I really hate the heater and the power lines.

I overheard my photography teacher tell another student that everything in the picture should have a reason to be there. That all aspects of the photo should help convey the thought or idea.

So I really hate the heater and power lines, but then I start thinking... damn... I think the little girl doesn't like it either. I think the heater and powerlines do add to the picture. I think by leaving them in the frame they add to the idea that this is not really a comfortable room. Its not very pretty.

Another problem I had was the little girl looking at the photographer. But then I think... hey... maybe the reason she looks sad is cause she's in an ugly room having her picture taken when she'd rather be outside playing.

To me, this is the ugliness of art. Its not comforting, but it expresses an emotion, a thought, or an idea. This is definitely not a shot I would have taken, but in a weird sense, I hate it, and I love it.

I guess that was a little more than a compositional critique. It was just my 3 cents. ;)

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

09/07/2002 08:40:28 AM · #29

Chariot..you made some very valid points. The most significant being that the inclusion of the elements many folks want to crop out makes this photo THIS PHOTO.

Exclusion of those elements makes it another photo..with different emotional context dependent on the viewer.

My feeling is that people see what they want to see..AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME. Their emotional, phsychological, chemical makeup at that time influences all they see.

Catch someone in the morning before they get their coffee..or late at night after a hard day, or right after they won the lottery!!! Or right before sex or right after >;-D

Art is never 1 + 1 no matter how much the professors or critics want to make it so. It will never be algebra, or physics or basic chemistry. It's art. It's all things combined and dependent on the "Eye of the Beholder".

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

09/07/2002 11:35:37 AM · #30

My question is: Why would we ask that anything be cropped out of the image? Are we not to assume that the photographer framed his photo with some amount of thought?

I'm with chariot... I think that the framing should be assumed intentional... This being the case, the photographer intended the visible items to be in the photo.

This particular photo does not seem like a spur of the moment snapshot. It looks to be well thought out and planned, doesn't it?

09/07/2002 12:04:28 PM · #31

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
My question is: Why would we ask that anything be cropped out of the image? Are we not to assume that the photographer framed his photo with some amount of thought?

I'm with chariot... I think that the framing should be assumed intentional... This being the case, the photographer intended the visible items to be in the photo.

This particular photo does not seem like a spur of the moment snapshot. It looks to be well thought out and planned, doesn't it?

I am absolutely with you on this idea John.

Why ..WHY do we look at every photo like it needs to be fixed?

Why not take the same energy and try to see why the photographer made the photo EXACTLY as it is.

If you don't feel something...So what. You are not meant to understand everything. You can't. Do you know every language? Every minority viewpoint. A womans view if you're a man or a mans view if youre a woman?

I know some will argue a photographers job is to comunicate ideas clearly. I agree. But the viewer must have the needed tools in him/her to help decypher that message as well.

When I don't understand the complete idea or maybe a photo doesn't "speak" to me clearly I will probably not like the photo. And that is fair. But to try and reform a photo is like rewriting Byron or Emmerson to sound more like Eminem or the Beach Boys.

Jak

Fujifilm FinePix S602Z

09/07/2002 12:09:23 PM · #32

Then what is the point of a critique? Are we supposed to say, "wow, I have no idea why he did that and I don't care for it but I shouldn't try to discern what could make it better from my POV?"

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

09/07/2002 12:22:13 PM · #33

Originally posted by jakking:
Then what is the point of a critique? Are we supposed to say, "wow, I have no idea why he did that and I don't care for it but I shouldn't try to discern what could make it better from my POV?"

Maybe you need to stretch your point of view to accomodate some fresh perspectives?

Do you got to art galleries and try to absorb fresh ideas or do you go there to impose your one perspective on all?

I'm not saying not have opinions. That is only natural. But I see many folks with very, very limited experience locked into modes of thought so rigid how can they grow?

But...even in this approach to life I am of my own opnion and surely do not expect you to parrot my ideas either :-)

Zeissman

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

09/07/2002 02:05:27 PM · #34

I am with Jakking on this. If we see something we do not think works, we are not supposed to mention it? What is the point of the critique then?

I am not going to assume that the photographer is perfect, and this is exactly what he wanted us to see, because most of us are not that good.

I do try to stretch my imagination, there are many effective elements to this shot. I simply think the mood would be better served if the heater and the cables were removed.

Ansel Adams spent a lot of time in the dark room altering images to get the affect he desired.

One of the most useful comments for "Hannah Rests" said something like, "I bet you wish you would have covered the arm of the swing?" I had not even thought of that. I was too busy looking at the elements I like in the image. Well, guess what, I was able to clone the blanket of the arm, and it improved the image (at least to those that have seen it).

Why ask for a critique, and then complain about the results?

aelith

Olympus C-3020Z

09/07/2002 04:26:38 PM · #35

Critique does not, should not imply negative analysis only. It is just as valid to say why something works or how it works.

Perhaps the answer as I see it is that suggestions to substantably change the material set up of the picture is too easy. All you are saying is start all over again. What may be more helpful is suggestions on what the photographer can change with the camera or lighting which he has more imediate controle over. If there is no problem there then perhaps it is just a picture that doesn't appeal to you.

Of course that doesn't applly to newbie idiots like me who ignore shelf supports in the middle of the picture. There the only solution was "start over".

Zeissman

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

09/07/2002 04:34:56 PM · #36

Perhaps the answer as I see it is that suggestions to substantably change the material set up of the picture is too easy. All you are saying is start all over again. What may be more helpful is suggestions on what the photographer can change with the camera or lighting which he has more imediate controle over.

How is changing the lighting more imediate than changing the crop?

If these critiques are going to turn into pissing contests, than count me out. My personal feeling is that this photograph seem unfinished, and needs work to effectively convey a message. The core of the image is very good, and the photographer is obviously skilled, but great photographs are not easy to create. Do you think Ansel Adams only shot El Capitan once?

aelith

Olympus C-3020Z

09/07/2002 04:45:41 PM · #37

Zeissman, this has been an extremely inteligent and stimulating discussion. I have enjoyed it all. aelith

* This message has been edited by the author on 9/7/2002 4:44:58 PM.