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05/30/2006 07:21:51 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
I think what is appealing about jj's work is that the wow factor comes from the subjects he chooses, and the manner in which he captures them instead of from the manner in which he does his post processing. The dpc voters tend to like the less subtle wow factor that often is brought out of, or injected into, a photo with post processing. It's important that we, as developing photographers, go beyond just dpc. dpc is a great place to learn but it is a very, very small part of the photography universe. |
Well said, sir!
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05/30/2006 08:24:50 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
I think what is appealing about jj's work is that the wow factor comes from the subjects he chooses, and the manner in which he captures them instead of from the manner in which he does his post processing. The dpc voters tend to like the less subtle wow factor that often is brought out of, or injected into, a photo with post processing. |
Nevertheless, JJ's images, for the most part, show a consistently high level of PP skill. They are far from "straight images" as a rule. His PP is rarely "flashy" but it is nevertheless pronounced. For just two examples, read the notes on these two fine images:
 
He has included no notes on this shot, but it shows evidence of very skillful burn and dodge to focus us where he wants us to be:
If people think of JJ, in general, as a "straight" photographer, it's a mark of just how well he does his PP work, 'cuz he does a lot of it... None of this negates Harvey's point, incidentally; JJ's work is wonderfully subtle and understated compared with most winning work on DPC.
R.
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05/30/2006 08:40:34 AM · #28 |
Being subtle can sometimes lead to being sublime, as is the case with JJ, I think. The PP was not obvious but it is clear it more than helped. The fact that the subject was interesting in and of itself also helps :-)
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05/30/2006 05:26:41 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by obsidian:
Being subtle can sometimes lead to being sublime, as is the case with JJ, I think. The PP was not obvious but it is clear it more than helped. The fact that the subject was interesting in and of itself also helps :-) |
I do agree with you, but consider this: in the 3 "quoted" images in my post, the "subjects" are 2 crowds and a rusty metal ball in the water. No big landscape, stunning building, exquisite mountain, ephemeral flower, ultra-macro-bug, none of that. Just the ordinary, well-seen and well-conveyed. THIS is photography at its purest.
R.
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05/30/2006 05:35:18 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I do agree with you, but consider this: in the 3 "quoted" images in my post, the "subjects" are 2 crowds and a rusty metal ball in the water. No big landscape, stunning building, exquisite mountain, ephemeral flower, ultra-macro-bug, none of that. Just the ordinary, well-seen and well-conveyed. THIS is photography at its purest.
R. |
Beautifully put. Which is a nice segue into the "Zen" threads...
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05/30/2006 05:59:04 PM · #31 |
I love this thread - great read! I was trying to convey something similar (although not as articulately as some have replied on this thread) on a challenge recommendation thread I started a number of days ago. To me, the WOW factor is something about the picture or subject that "connects" you with the picture - it brings you into the mood/emotion of the shot. For me personally, that usually requires people in the shot - i.e., I'm not going to get too connected to a flower & vase picture. That's not to say there are not some completely awesome flower/macro/landscape pictures - but as I explain in my profile�.after traveling to far away lands, the stories I bring back are of the people I have met, not the castles or mountains I have seen (to paraphrase) - THAT's where the connection is (IMO) - and capturing those people's personalities, emotion, lifestyle, those are the pictures that I will stop to look-at & reflect upon.
JJ is great example of a photographer that can convey a message or feeling with just about any subject (person, place or thing). |
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05/30/2006 06:04:29 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
... Just the ordinary, well-seen and well-conveyed. THIS is photography at its purest. ... |
When I try to say things like that I take a beating from the people who think "well-seen and well-conveyed" isn't possible without turning an image on it's ear with photoshop. Most of us don't see all the pp in jj's images that you do Bear, I guess that's because you are more experienced at it. To me, the point is that the best pp is that which does not take attention away from the subject, but rather makes it possible for the viewer to better see it as the photographer saw it at it's best.
The voters here have routinely been seduced by the "flashy" to the point of it's becoming institutionalized.
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05/30/2006 06:21:37 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
... Just the ordinary, well-seen and well-conveyed. THIS is photography at its purest. ... |
When I try to say things like that I take a beating from the people who think "well-seen and well-conveyed" isn't possible without turning an image on it's ear with photoshop. Most of us don't see all the pp in jj's images that you do Bear, I guess that's because you are more experienced at it. To me, the point is that the best pp is that which does not take attention away from the subject, but rather makes it possible for the viewer to better see it as the photographer saw it at it's best.
The voters here have routinely been seduced by the "flashy" to the point of it's becoming institutionalized. |
I suspect you have already realized this (in fact I am sure you have) but we aren't that far apart at all in how we view this craft/art of ours. Certainly, I do NOT consider myself to be an extreme processor-of-images, although I have dabbled in it. And most of my challenge entries, indeed most of my images, are of the commonplace things in my life. It just so happens that outrageous sunsets and sunrises are a common part of life here on Cape Cod, so I get a bit "typed" by them. But I consider myself a conservative and thoughtful photographer.
R.
Edit to add: re JJ's PP, I suppose that's right that I'm "more experienced" than most people here in that stuff, but I'm not sure how relevant that is. I honestly don't know. In his two crowd shots he either had some miraculously specific light or he had dodged and burned to perfection, no question about that. In the ribbon-winner, he says as much in his notes. Ditto the "rusty ball", which he points out in his notes was flat & uninteresting before he PP'd it.
It's all a matter of what you see in the mind's eye, and how you make the image speak what you saw. JJ does it so smoothly and unobtrusively we're fundamentally unaware of it unless we cast an analytical eye on the image after the fact. THAT, in my opinion, is one defnition of "perfection".
Message edited by author 2006-05-30 18:25:47.
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05/30/2006 07:15:38 PM · #34 |
I think Coolbar and Macpapas are on to the subject with insight and excellent articulation. Not to imply others are not, just that there comments hit the mark right between the eyes, i.e. the thoughtful photographer's mind.
I'll be looking for you guys and your entries. |
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05/30/2006 07:35:45 PM · #35 |
DPC favors the blatant over the subtle.
It's just the nature of the beast. |
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05/30/2006 07:46:00 PM · #36 |
I definately vote for photos needing some kind of wow. If it is not the subject, it needs to be in the way the 'dull' subject is presented. Lighting, compostion, something. In the critique cub so many shots are just, sorry to say, boring. There is nothing of interest. I think inanimate objects are very hard to make wow and I am always stunned at how people here on dpc manage to make things like lens caps and rubber ducks actually interesting. I also think it is usually pulled off with some degree of sheer creativity. (the winning shot for lens cap challenge is a great example).
At any rate, some photos may not need wow' subtle or otherwise, but I think it is a great thing to ask yourself when you review shots or before submitting. "Is there any wow here?" |
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