| Author | Thread |
|
|
05/28/2006 02:23:22 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by amber:
How have they turned out? Why is ot really bad? And what constitutes 'over-protective'? |
Children whose parents do not trust them tend to react by not giving their parents any reason to change their minds. Why should they do anything trustworthy when they'll never be trusted anyway? To what extent parents want to give trust obviously should be determined on a case by case basis, but I have to admit, this equation is generally true.
|
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:26:08 PM · #27 |
I started drinking and riding around with 19 year olds when I was 13. By the time I was 16 I was dressing like an adult and getting into bars.
I think Ennil has a very good point. Children rebel. It's in their nature.
My parents could have stopped it; but they would have had to start by paying attention to me at a very early age. Unfortunately, the parents I lived with until the age of 15 weren't capable of that. When I moved to live with my father and stepmother, it was too late. The stricter they were, the more I acted out.
I had friends with communicative friend-type parents and friends with strict prison-warden parents. I was able to corrupt them all equally. Sadly, we all made some poor choices. This is partially responsible for my apprehension about being a parent. It's a lot of hard work! |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:26:36 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by karmabreeze:
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Ennil, You are truly older and more sophisticated than your years; as your photography and posts clearly testifiy.
However, you must keep in mind that most teens your age have not been afforded the experiences that you have. I would venture a guess that you might find most American 14 year olds a little less mature than yourself. |
Actually, having seen what I've seen, I have to disagree. Ennil sounds rather typical. There is a broad spectrum of maturity at that age, this is true, but I don't think she sounds any more or less normal than most of the kids in my forums were. Adults always seem so surprised when they see a teenager lucidly and maturely speak their minds. 14 is not 30, but neither is it 8. It's sad, I think, that people are being so dismissive of her age instead of really listening to what she has to say, because it really is pertinent. She is precisely the demographic you, as parents, are trying to understand. "Sorry, but you dont know." Oh, but she does. Your typical 14/15 year old is much worldlier than you want to accept. Be brutally honest with yourself and look at what you were doing at 14. It wasn't so different when we were that young. It really truly was not. |
I asked her opinion, I didn't dismiss it. Every teenager thinks they know all there is to know - that carries on through life. What the real adult says is 'I don't know, I don't have all the answers.'
Message edited by author 2006-05-28 14:28:56. |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:28:43 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Ennil:
Originally posted by missinseattle:
I realize girls wear bikinis- mine will NOT be till she is out of this house. |
I seriously feel sorry for your daughter. I'm sure, hell I'm more than sure you are a great mother and I know you think that what you're doing is the best for your daughter. But I'm sorry to say you're not and I fear you will realize that sooner or later.
You know as a young girl who was 14 last year and has seen several cultures and has studied human psychology for two years, I'm just saying :) |
That being said I was raised much the same was as I'm raising my daughter. Didn't do me any harm other then make me aware of what went on around me and protect myself. Todays society is a lot different then it was 25 years ago. Btw, in todays society I'd be old enough to be your mother. That in itself is scary lol.
My parents raised me to respect myself and my body and to require nothing less from anyone else. I was a virgin till I met my husband- and I dated plenty in between. I wasn't interested in showing my body off on the beach- and don't tell me that's not what they're doing. When they're parading down the sidewalk batting their eyes at the boys I'd beg to differ.
And it's not wonder girls are losing their virginity at 12 and 13, look at what they are wearing and how they are acting? At 13 I was playing piano, playing basketball, and focusing on school. NOT walking the malls in the tightest jeans and tops I could possibly find. THAT would be why girls are losing their virginity at such a young age.
I studied college psych for 2 years and actually did my final paper on girls raised in homes where modesty and respect were most important vs girls raised in homes where there were no boundaries in that aspect. I'll have to say modesty and respect produced modesty and respect.
Anyhow, I never rebelled, I had nothing but respect for my parents and am thankful for the way they raised me. My husband was very worldly so it's not like I married someone just like myself lol.
So to go off on your tangent about how rebellious I could make my daughter by protecting her innocence is a pretty ignorant statement. (not that you were saying that specifically to me) I went to school with many girls who were raised just like me and most of them turned out just like I did. I just happened to leave town at 21 and start life somewhere else because I felt I needed more room to grow and my home town didn't do that for me.
I myself don't feel like I'm overprotective, but I've been told I am. But others opinions on that matter really don't mean much to me because it's my daughter I'm protecting. It's interesting to see others points of views and I'd be curious to know those who actually don't see it as an issue if they have young daughters.
And btw Ennil, my daughter is VERY social hence my vigilance on a lot of issues. She has NO fear whatsoever of anybody. If you asked her what she'd do if someone wanted her to help them go look for their puppy she'd go help them and not think twice about it.
I'll crawl back to my old fart couch now lol. |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:29:28 PM · #30 |
Man this scares me. I am 35 and my father got remarried and had 2 girls late in life. My half sisters are 12 and 14 they are very tall due to genetics (6' already) they are blond and beautiful. They look 17 or 18 but they are not.
I spent Christmas with them and when we went to the mall shopping, every dude we passed were staring at them in a less than tasteful manner. Man I was so pissed off, you know they are 12 and 14 for crying out loud. It was all I could do to keep myself from pounding every guy that looked at them.
I don't have a solution but I sure know it̢۪s a problem. You can̢۪t protect them all the time but you can teach them. I feel for my dad having to worry about this. I think the more we can do to educate kids the better. Being honest and maintaining a good dialog is the best thing we can do. Also I am in favor of chemical castration for offenders.
Erick
|
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:29:49 PM · #31 |
Seeing as I'm fifteen I think I might be able to contribute to this discussion here.
I think there has to be a middle ground in terms of a parents involvement. If you do everything in your power to keep your children hidden in a cave, completely sheltered from society they are either going to fight you every step of the way and do things they otherwise wouldn't, or if you manage to keep your kid in the rarified world you invision for them, when they finally get out into the real world they are not going to have the social skills or ability to cope.
On the other hand if you are one of those parents that thinks kids should have all the freedom in the world and go out and learn from experience, then you are simply not giving your child the guidance they need.
The only way I believe you can truly protect your kid is by forming an extremely good relationship with them and doing you best to educate them about what is out there. The only way you can truly protect your kids is by teaching them about what is out there and how to handle it. Once you have done that, you have to hope that they will carry with them what you have taught them, and have faith that they will make the right decisions.
Charles |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:33:01 PM · #32 |
I'm really liking this discussion btw. Very good one and really interesting to see others points of view.
|
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:33:47 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by cfischl:
Seeing as I'm fifteen I think I might be able to contribute to this discussion here.
I think there has to be a middle ground in terms of a parents involvement. If you do everything in your power to keep your children hidden in a cave, completely sheltered from society they are either going to fight you every step of the way and do things they otherwise wouldn't, or if you manage to keep your kid in the rarified world you invision for them, when they finally get out into the real world they are not going to have the social skills or ability to cope.
On the other hand if you are one of those parents that thinks kids should have all the freedom in the world and go out and learn from experience, then you are simply not giving your child the guidance they need.
The only way I believe you can truly protect your kid is by forming an extremely good relationship with them and doing you best to educate them about what is out there. The only way you can truly protect your kids is by teaching them about what is out there and how to handle it. Once you have done that, you have to hope that they will carry with them what you have taught them, and have faith that they will make the right decisions.
Charles |
Oh, what do you know? Your just 15! J/K
You sound like a well adjusted young man. Good advice. |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:34:21 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by cfischl:
The only way I believe you can truly protect your kid is by forming an extremely good relationship with them and doing you best to educate them about what is out there. The only way you can truly protect your kids is by teaching them about what is out there and how to handle it. Once you have done that, you have to hope that they will carry with them what you have taught them, and have faith that they will make the right decisions.
Charles |
You are very wise for you years and there is SO MUCH truth to this last statement. And that is exactly how I feel. |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:35:00 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by cfischl:
Seeing as I'm fifteen I think I might be able to contribute to this discussion here.
I think there has to be a middle ground in terms of a parents involvement. If you do everything in your power to keep your children hidden in a cave, completely sheltered from society they are either going to fight you every step of the way and do things they otherwise wouldn't, or if you manage to keep your kid in the rarified world you invision for them, when they finally get out into the real world they are not going to have the social skills or ability to cope.
On the other hand if you are one of those parents that thinks kids should have all the freedom in the world and go out and learn from experience, then you are simply not giving your child the guidance they need.
The only way I believe you can truly protect your kid is by forming an extremely good relationship with them and doing you best to educate them about what is out there. The only way you can truly protect your kids is by teaching them about what is out there and how to handle it. Once you have done that, you have to hope that they will carry with them what you have taught them, and have faith that they will make the right decisions.
Charles |
Exactly right... |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:35:16 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by cfischl:
Seeing as I'm fifteen I think I might be able to contribute to this discussion here.
I think there has to be a middle ground in terms of a parents involvement. If you do everything in your power to keep your children hidden in a cave, completely sheltered from society they are either going to fight you every step of the way and do things they otherwise wouldn't, or if you manage to keep your kid in the rarified world you invision for them, when they finally get out into the real world they are not going to have the social skills or ability to cope.
On the other hand if you are one of those parents that thinks kids should have all the freedom in the world and go out and learn from experience, then you are simply not giving your child the guidance they need.
The only way I believe you can truly protect your kid is by forming an extremely good relationship with them and doing you best to educate them about what is out there. The only way you can truly protect your kids is by teaching them about what is out there and how to handle it. Once you have done that, you have to hope that they will carry with them what you have taught them, and have faith that they will make the right decisions.
Charles |
Well see, now there is a mature 15 year old. I think we give too much credit to some people when they have the same level of maturity as the majority of their age group.
I agree with you completely. It's a happy middleground. |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:35:34 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by cfischl:
The only way I believe you can truly protect your kid is by forming an extremely good relationship with them and doing you best to educate them about what is out there. The only way you can truly protect your kids is by teaching them about what is out there and how to handle it. Once you have done that, you have to hope that they will carry with them what you have taught them, and have faith that they will make the right decisions.
Charles |
Charles, this is very wise. I would go a step further and say that until kids show the responsibility and maturity to make their own decisions (and imo a 14-year-old girl shows that she *can't* do this properly when she's dressing in a way that will bring the lusty eyes of every male from 12 to 60 in her direction, lol) it's also the parent's responsibility to keep them safe by overriding the child's wishes/decisions if necessary. While building this relationship. Nobody ever said parenting was easy, right? :)
|
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:43:13 PM · #38 |
One year when I was in high school my dad and I took a falsh snapshot of every child who came to our door for tirck & treat. It was 1977 I think. Aside from asking for prints & leaving contact info, not one parent appeared in any way concerned. This now seems dangerous or at least inappropriate.
Now I'm afraid to make eye contact with any child I dont know for fear of making parents uncomfortable. This is very sad and tiresome.
Where is the middle gorund. How do we make a safe public for children without having to worry constantly about every action being suspect? |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:51:47 PM · #39 |
I must say that I think this discussion has resulted from what is largely a very American, and to a lesser extent, Canadian, phenomenon. The paranoia surrounding this issue on this continent is virtually non-existent in Europe.
edit sp.
Message edited by author 2006-05-28 14:52:25. |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:55:37 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Louis:
I must say that I think this discussion has resulted from what is largely a very American, and to a lesser extent, Canadian, phenomenon. The paranoia surrounding this issue on this continent is virtually non-existent in Europe.
edit sp. |
Perhaps, but a large number of internet predators are stationed in Europe. How does that work? |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:57:33 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Originally posted by Louis:
I must say that I think this discussion has resulted from what is largely a very American, and to a lesser extent, Canadian, phenomenon. The paranoia surrounding this issue on this continent is virtually non-existent in Europe.
edit sp. |
Perhaps, but a large number of internet predators are stationed in Europe. How does that work? |
I was referring to how society at large reacts in areas not necessarily related to predation. |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 02:59:36 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Originally posted by Louis:
I must say that I think this discussion has resulted from what is largely a very American, and to a lesser extent, Canadian, phenomenon. The paranoia surrounding this issue on this continent is virtually non-existent in Europe.
edit sp. |
Perhaps, but a large number of internet predators are stationed in Europe. How does that work? |
I was referring to how society at large reacts in areas not necessarily related to predation. |
I understand. My question is: If the predators are everywhere what are Europeans doing differently to protect their children? |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 03:00:17 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by karmabreeze:
Actually, having seen what I've seen, I have to disagree. Ennil sounds rather typical. There is a broad spectrum of maturity at that age, this is true, but I don't think she sounds any more or less normal than most of the kids in my forums were. Adults always seem so surprised when they see a teenager lucidly and maturely speak their minds. 14 is not 30, but neither is it 8. It's sad, I think, that people are being so dismissive of her age instead of really listening to what she has to say, because it really is pertinent. She is precisely the demographic you, as parents, are trying to understand. "Sorry, but you dont know." Oh, but she does. Your typical 14/15 year old is much worldlier than you want to accept. Be brutally honest with yourself and look at what you were doing at 14. It wasn't so different when we were that young. It really truly was not. |
I was going to stay out of this thread but found myself compelled to add ... I couldnt agree more. Ennil sounds exactly like a 14 year old.. she articulates very well and has a powerful voice. Adults need to pay better attention to what our kids are saying..they are the ones living their experiences in this new world. Yes we did similiar things at their age, yes the times maybe were a little more gentle.. but predators were still present back then too.
My experience with teen girls is maybe a bit different than most, I was an outreach worker for kids involved in or at risk of prostitution and pornography. If I say nothing else in my life I'd scream this message over and over: The single best thing you can do for any teen in your life is LISTEN with an open mind to what they tell you because TRUST me when i say, they will tell you all you need to know if you learn to listen openly. AND The single biggest threat to any child: IS LOW / POOR self esteem. The bad people out in the world will pick up on that more than anything else and by playing up to the fear/self loathing/uncertainty or being naieve to the ways of the world .. kids will fall for the smooth and experienced lines of predators. Protect your children..but dont protect them from the world .. protect them by educating them on the things that theaten them..
gotta say tho.. you need to educate yourselves first about the dangers that our kids face the minute they step out the door or turn on the computer. Ask a teen in your life.. what scares them today.. you might be surprised by the answers.
anyway.. I'm late as always lol and i gotta fly not sure how much sense that all made hope it made a bit :) layda |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 03:05:24 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Originally posted by Louis:
I must say that I think this discussion has resulted from what is largely a very American, and to a lesser extent, Canadian, phenomenon. The paranoia surrounding this issue on this continent is virtually non-existent in Europe.
edit sp. |
Perhaps, but a large number of internet predators are stationed in Europe. How does that work? |
I was referring to how society at large reacts in areas not necessarily related to predation. |
I understand. My question is: If the predators are everywhere what are Europeans doing differently to protect their children? |
Absolutely nothing differently. I was referring to North American vs. European attitudes to this, and many other like issues, generally. |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 03:06:51 PM · #45 |
It's interesting how when a teen has an opinion it is based on immaturity and that it couldnt possibly be the right decision/choice/opinion because that teen hasnt possibly seen enough of the big bad world to know any better. All children are just naive, right?
Are the really overprotective adults or parents that way because they have had the personal experience of being molested? I'm sure some are, but I'm also sure plenty arent. Does it take living 30+ years to understand danger? Does that mean that at 30+ you are never going to be a dangerous position because of your maturity?
There are plenty of stories of 30, 40, 50, 60+ people becoming victims of sexual predators or murderers. You cannot control who will view you as a victim. You also cannot always tell who is going to be the predator. The perfect colledge student boyfriend who is a year older and going to be a lawyer could become a predator. The 60+ widow who preys on blue-haired grannies for their money. Are you going to hide from anyone and everyone?
If you go outside and start thinking that people who look at your kids or yourself are just doing it to fuel some sexual fantasy then you are already a victim. Yes, it's a disgusting thought that someone could do that, but unless they create physical harm then I would rather assume the best and not assume everyone is thinking the worst.
Message edited by author 2006-05-28 15:09:54.
|
|
|
|
05/28/2006 03:15:06 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Louis:
I must say that I think this discussion has resulted from what is largely a very American, and to a lesser extent, Canadian, phenomenon. The paranoia surrounding this issue on this continent is virtually non-existent in Europe. |
I can't speak for mainland Europe, but there have been instances over here of photography being banned at school plays because one parent objected. We're just as paranoid.
As for the overprotective parents discussion ... Marie Osmond. Nuff said.
|
|
|
|
05/28/2006 03:16:46 PM · #47 |
hrmm...
I'm not going to pretend I have the patience to read this whole thread.
So anyway, I would say that I personally found the content of that thread in question a little 'sketchy' to be of a 14 year old...but I kept my mouth shut because I didn't want to hijack a thread.
I would never post anything like that on the internet of a girl under the age of 18...because there are defintely perv's out there.
--
That being said, I do think some people are taking it to the extreme. Stating that grown men are 'eyeing up' your 5-year-old daughter ALL THE TIME, is just insane...or you live in a really sick and twisted town.
--
Also, buying someone's clothes 2 sizes too big is also a bit whacked in my opinion...I know at least one kid that's going to have some real issues in the future...that's just weird.
|
|
|
|
05/28/2006 03:19:11 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by deapee:
Also, buying someone's clothes 2 sizes too big is also a bit whacked in my opinion...I know at least one kid that's going to have some real issues in the future...that's just weird. |
Except that today, most teens I see wear clothes that look 2 sizes too small. Perhaps 2 sizes too big just means they fit. |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 03:21:21 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by bod:
I can't speak for mainland Europe, but there have been instances over here of photography being banned at school plays because one parent objected. We're just as paranoid. |
I was indeed referring to continental Europe. |
|
|
|
05/28/2006 05:12:21 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by missinseattle:
And it's not wonder girls are losing their virginity at 12 and 13, look at what they are wearing and how they are acting?...NOT walking the malls in the tightest jeans and tops I could possibly find. THAT would be why girls are losing their virginity at such a young age. |
Less than 150 years ago these girls were losing their virginity AND raising families...and they were VERY christian and "proper."
There is that "animalistic drive" in us all that drives us to flirt and find the best mate for procreation. That is 1000's upon thousands of years of evolution there, trying to be stuffed back in a box in the last 50-100 years. That is not an excuse and we all have the capacity to make choices, some people just make bad choices...that is why guidance is good, but not letting your baby bird flap their wings, they will never be out of the nest and able to handle the world. No guidance at all...people then think there are no boundaries in any situation, and then they start learning the hard way. It is a fine line...some people's lines are closer than others.
And Kimberly...I hate to do this to you but...there may be a pedophile with a foot fetish out there!! Does that now worry you? Little Birkies
Message edited by author 2006-05-28 17:13:50.
|
|
