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05/28/2006 12:33:48 PM · #1 |
In gusto's thread "A few of Reon a 14 year old" a discussion was waged about child predators. Instead of continuing to hijack that thread, I am starting a new one.
A few of Reon 14 year old
Message edited by author 2006-05-28 12:34:46. |
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05/28/2006 12:42:31 PM · #2 |
It's sad that we even have to think about this..but we live in sad times. If you were able to see what I see here in Pattaya (google it) on a daily basis, you would understand my concerns.
As a mother and a woman I think the pressure on young girls to grow up too fast has increased incredibly over the last decade. Five year olds now dress to be sexy without having a clue what that means...who benefits?
Message edited by author 2006-05-28 12:43:02. |
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05/28/2006 12:44:24 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by MikeOwens:
Its strange how different people see things differently. When I first saw the photos of Reon I thought - 'what great photos'. There has always been 'people' around that preyed on children, its not anything new its just these days it gets a wider coverage than it used to in the past. I also cannot understand why somebody would be terrified to become a parent - being a parent is the most wonderful experience that you can possibly have. I find it so sad these days that we cannot speak to children in the street anymore for fear of being branded 'perverts'.
You do as much as you can to protect your children, that is all you can do.
Sad how the world has changed |
Mike, I wanted to clarify what I said in gusto's thread.
I look forward to becoming a parent. I'm terrified because I know what's out there and that I can never protect my child 100%.
Yes, there have always been people around who have preyed upon children. However, I believe that the internet has offered a level of anonymity and easy access that didn't exist before. I've read lots of anecdotal evidence stating that the sheer volume and accesibility of pornography has hooked people who might not have ever gone there. They are brainwashed into believing that sex with children is acceptable and even a badge of honor.
I feel this way because the law enforcement officers who are trying to stop this are overwhelmed and astonished at the new victims they are finding. There used to be a set of established victims who's images were (and still are) being passed around. Now they are finding a steady stream of new victims.
It's our fault, as a society, for accepting this. |
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05/28/2006 12:48:59 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by amber:
It's sad that we even have to think about this..but we live in sad times. If you were able to see what I see here in Pattaya (google it) on a daily basis, you would understand my concerns.
As a mother and a woman I think the pressure on young girls to grow up too fast has increased incredibly over the last decade. Five year olds now dress to be sexy without having a clue what that means...who benefits? |
Originally posted by MikeOwens:
Its strange how different people see things differently. When I first saw the photos of Reon I thought - 'what great photos'. There has always been 'people' around that preyed on children, its not anything new its just these days it gets a wider coverage than it used to in the past. I also cannot understand why somebody would be terrified to become a parent - being a parent is the most wonderful experience that you can possibly have. I find it so sad these days that we cannot speak to children in the street anymore for fear of being branded 'perverts'.
You do as much as you can to protect your children, that is all you can do.
Sad how the world has changed |
Kate, I don't think I could stand it. Those children are being offered up to sex tourists from all over the world. It's mind boggling to think that my doctor or accountant may have just returned from one of those trips. Not trying to be alarmist; it's just scary to think that the people who do that are usually established in society and are able to fly to another country and abuse children with no repercussions.
Message edited by author 2006-05-28 12:51:53. |
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05/28/2006 12:56:33 PM · #5 |
Roxanne...here it's just a little more accessible and it seems to be seen as a simple 'buiness contract'...women, men, boys, girls - it's simply ecconomics - supply and demand. And it turns my stomach.
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05/28/2006 01:10:18 PM · #6 |
I'm sorry I started anything in the other thread but it trully is something I am passionate about and VERY aware of.
I can't even take my 5yo daughter down to the beach in a long peasant skirt and top without grown men looking at her- and I'm not talking just glancing at her. It makes me sick.
I realize girls wear bikinis- mine will NOT be till she is out of this house.
It's sad that modesty is such a thing of the past now. It's sad that at 11 and 12 girls are WANTING to wear things like bikinis and exploring their sexuality- hence the reason for so many teenage pregnancies.
They grow up too fast and so many parents out there are okay with that. I for on prefer the innocence and modest shots.
My whole thing wasn't about the fact that they weren't great pictures, my point was that in this day and age posting pictures of a 14yo in a bikini is just not something that should be done. I know I didn't come out and say it there, and I know he had permission. ANd if it is for modeling purposes then so be it. Modeling at 14 can be done without shots of girls in bathing suits of bikinis.
Like I said, I'm old fashioned, call me a prude, call me overprotective, but my child and all children should be protected and to me this was just another example of exploiting them. Who's to say some pedophile didn't look at those pictures, copy and save them for his own uses? That was my point.
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05/28/2006 01:16:21 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Mike, I wanted to clarify what I said in gusto's thread.
I look forward to becoming a parent. I'm terrified because I know what's out there and that I can never protect my child 100%.
Yes, there have always been people around who have preyed upon children. However, I believe that the internet has offered a level of anonymity and easy access that didn't exist before. I've read lots of anecdotal evidence stating that the sheer volume and accesibility of pornography has hooked people who might not have ever gone there. They are brainwashed into believing that sex with children is acceptable and even a badge of honor.
I feel this way because the law enforcement officers who are trying to stop this are overwhelmed and astonished at the new victims they are finding. There used to be a set of established victims who's images were (and still are) being passed around. Now they are finding a steady stream of new victims.
It's our fault, as a society, for accepting this. |
And I have to add there have been more and more specials on tv lately. It sickens me that at 4yo we had to give our daughter instruction on stranger danger, and how even though people seem nice, it doesn't mean they are. How she needs to be aware of the people around her and keep her distance. Had to teach her that it's not okay to wave at and talk to everyone. She's VERY outgoing and honestly it scares me to death.
Sad that at 5yrs old we have to tell her about good vs bad touch and how nobody is to touch her and even the doctor can't touch her unless we are present.
I could go on and on. All of these are reasons why my daughter is still an only child at 5yo lol. |
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05/28/2006 01:18:41 PM · #8 |
| I agree, it's very sad. However, I do wish that my parents had the same level of awareness that today's parents have. |
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05/28/2006 01:24:07 PM · #9 |
Mine did and I think that's why I am the way I am lol.
My daughter freaks if her shirts are too short- have to buy her shirts that are 2 sizes bigger then she would normally where just so they are long enough. SUmmer shopping was fun lol. Those cute peasant tops but too short in her size. Bought them 2 sizes bigger and shortend the shoulders.
And I noticed someone mentioned myspace, the news specials I've seen have had NOTHING to do with myspace. I saw one the other night on 20/20. Was a family man with 3 children and a beautiful wife. Seemed like your perfect family guy with a happy home. His other life he was a serial pedophile preying on girls between 5 and 15. Videotaping them, rubbing up against them to grab things off the shelf in a grocery store. He actually grabbed a girl in a hotel, drug her off the elevator and outside. Her dad had told her long before that if anyone ever tried to do anything to her to scream and yell and do whatever she could to get away. That's what she did and the man was caught not long after that.
THOSE are the stories I'm referring to. And she wasn't some sexy dressed teen. She was a pastors daughter who was dressed modestly and very careful wherever she went.
That's what scares me. And the older my daughter gets, the more I worry. |
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05/28/2006 01:37:49 PM · #10 |
What scares me is that law enforcement doesn't appear to have the resources or the motivation to pursue these people.
The Justin Berry story is a perfect example. |
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05/28/2006 01:39:53 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by missinseattle:
I realize girls wear bikinis- mine will NOT be till she is out of this house. |
I seriously feel sorry for your daughter. I'm sure, hell I'm more than sure you are a great mother and I know you think that what you're doing is the best for your daughter. But I'm sorry to say you're not and I fear you will realize that sooner or later.
You know as a young girl who was 14 last year and has seen several cultures and has studied human psychology for two years, I'm just saying :)
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05/28/2006 01:52:31 PM · #12 |
As a 14/15 year old I would argue the same!:)
As a woman and a mother I would have to disagree...experience is a great teacher. |
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05/28/2006 01:56:28 PM · #13 |
This is getting to be UNREAL! I was at the pool yesterday with my two girls and my wife.. A mother walked by with her twin 5 year old daughters. I watched them walk towards me...pass in front of me and then to the left of me. They were wearing the same swim suit and they were both walking the same in every way. This was a shot waiting to happen. Although it is a "members" neighborhood club, many of us "don't know each other". I only wish I had the nerve to ask her if I could take a picture of her kids....but I felt that I would be labeled a pervert and would have been shunned from society or at least the club....sad.
Originally posted by missinseattle:
I'm sorry I started anything in the other thread but it trully is something I am passionate about and VERY aware of.
I can't even take my 5yo daughter down to the beach in a long peasant skirt and top without grown men looking at her- and I'm not talking just glancing at her. It makes me sick.
I realize girls wear bikinis- mine will NOT be till she is out of this house.
It's sad that modesty is such a thing of the past now. It's sad that at 11 and 12 girls are WANTING to wear things like bikinis and exploring their sexuality- hence the reason for so many teenage pregnancies.
They grow up too fast and so many parents out there are okay with that. I for on prefer the innocence and modest shots.
My whole thing wasn't about the fact that they weren't great pictures, my point was that in this day and age posting pictures of a 14yo in a bikini is just not something that should be done. I know I didn't come out and say it there, and I know he had permission. ANd if it is for modeling purposes then so be it. Modeling at 14 can be done without shots of girls in bathing suits of bikinis.
Like I said, I'm old fashioned, call me a prude, call me overprotective, but my child and all children should be protected and to me this was just another example of exploiting them. Who's to say some pedophile didn't look at those pictures, copy and save them for his own uses? That was my point. |
Message edited by author 2006-05-28 13:57:10. |
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05/28/2006 01:57:56 PM · #14 |
As someone who used to moderate a forum aimed at precisely this age demographic, I am not surprised at how adults freak out over this. The kids in my forums seemed to be under the impression that it was an adult-free space and the things I have seen them discuss both impress and terrify me. A 14 year old in a bikini is, to me, quite acceptable and quite expected. Does it mean that parents should chill out? Oh, definitely not. There is a lot out there and the kids are diving into head first all on their own, so a lot of vigilence is absolutely warranted. I wouldn't be worried about my (theoretical) daughter wanting a bikini, but like hell will my children ever have computers or televisions in their bedrooms. No way no how, not after the things I've seen go down.
The absolute best thing that we can do is teach our children to make smart choices. They are a lot smarter and a lot more aware than a lot of parents give them credit for, especially at 14.
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05/28/2006 01:58:45 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by amber:
As a 14/15 year old I would argue the same!:)
As a woman and a mother I would have to disagree...experience is a great teacher. |
Yeah right. I just hope your daughters don't turn out like my friends with the over-protective parents. Just be careful with your choices towards your daughters. What you think might be good for her, might just turn out to be really bad.
Like I said I'm just saying.
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05/28/2006 01:58:51 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Ennil:
Originally posted by missinseattle:
I realize girls wear bikinis- mine will NOT be till she is out of this house. |
I seriously feel sorry for your daughter. I'm sure, hell I'm more than sure you are a great mother and I know you think that what you're doing is the best for your daughter. But I'm sorry to say you're not and I fear you will realize that sooner or later.
You know as a young girl who was 14 last year and has seen several cultures and has studied human psychology for two years, I'm just saying :) |
I think that what is best for her daughter is a matter of opinion, I agree with her that 14 year olds shouldn't be out wearing bikinis in public. You being 15 says a lot because you're at the same stage as that 15 year old daughter clearly. You have no benefit of hind sight to seeing how this could possibly be a bad thing.
14 year olds should not be regarded as sexual objects, they are still young girls. I know that hormones are kicking in and we all want to be seen as older, more attractive mature girls, hell I still feel that at 18 sometimes. But, that doesn't make it alright for adults who are looking out for their well being to say this is alright. You can't vote at 14, and you shouldn't be able to make choices of sexual matters at 14 either. Your mind and body are not matured and developed enough to make these kind of decisions yet. That's what parents are for.
I just wouldn't let someone take photos of my daughter (If I had one) at 14 because it would break my heart for someone to think sexually about her. I know that I can't control people's minds, and that these sorts of things couldn't physically endanger her at all, but it's like placing the idea front and center for all to see, so that some who may have not even considered her as a sexual object may then do so.
I just think you should protect your child as much as you can, and hope that she learns to do the same as she ages. |
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05/28/2006 02:00:20 PM · #17 |
Ennil, You are truly older and more sophisticated than your years; as your photography and posts clearly testifiy.
However, you must keep in mind that most teens your age have not been afforded the experiences that you have. I would venture a guess that you might find most American 14 year olds a little less mature than yourself.
I believe the culture and expectations placed upon them are different than you have experienced. Most teens in our society face such extreme peer pressure that they can be persuaded to do things that you might never consider. Child predators know and take advantage of this. |
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05/28/2006 02:01:36 PM · #18 |
Hmmm.. I can relate to both sides here. I have a 16 year old boy crazy sister and as an older brother, I tend to be really protective of her. It breaks my heart to see older guys (aka older than 18 or 19 look at her). She's the popular prom queen type, and while I realize the danger of child predation, I also have to realize her feelings. She wants the string bikinis and mom/me do not...
Unfortunately to change her outlook on this subject would be to change her culture- we live in America, a society that glorifies fashion and glammour, defined as the most risque dress possible without being pornographic. And unfortunately, culture is a very difficult thing to change (look how long it was before women could enter the workplace or be given the right to vote). While I lament the current status of our American society, I'm afraid the only thing to do is to educate and caution our younger generation of the many pitfuls of adult life in general.
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05/28/2006 02:06:00 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Ennil:
Originally posted by amber:
As a 14/15 year old I would argue the same!:)
As a woman and a mother I would have to disagree...experience is a great teacher. |
Yeah right. I just hope your daughters don't turn out like my friends with the over-protective parents. Just be careful with your choices towards your daughters. What you think might be good for her, might just turn out to be really bad.
Like I said I'm just saying. |
So a couple of kids who rebelled against their overprotective parents is reason enough to let them do whatever and hope they survive? So then they're not rebelling, they're just doing what they're allowed with the same results? Not wanting your child to be seen of sexually is not that overprotective, keeping them under lock and key twenty four seven is. Some parents want their kids to have similar morals as them, because this has worked in their experiences.
I'm assuming since they're your friends that they're around the same age. I don't think you can judge their parents overprotectiveness until they are grown up and mature. Maybe they'll turn out alright and the parent's overprotectiveness will have been a good thing. |
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05/28/2006 02:07:03 PM · #20 |
After having worked with about 450 parents under the age of 18 in the past four years, I think a 14 year old wearing a bikini for a studio portrait session is the LEAST of the world's social worries at the moment. Yeah, girls are going to wear bikinis and want to dress like Britney and Christina and Shakira and Lil' Kim, and the only people that can do anything about that are the parents and the media. Expecting (and moreover, telling) girls to NOT do that is like telling them "Please, go do it, now!"
Posting a few pictures, obviously in a studio setting and with permission from her parent/guardian, is probably not going to generate interest for the pedophiles lurking about.
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05/28/2006 02:12:56 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Ennil:
Originally posted by amber:
As a 14/15 year old I would argue the same!:)
As a woman and a mother I would have to disagree...experience is a great teacher. |
Yeah right. I just hope your daughters don't turn out like my friends with the over-protective parents. Just be careful with your choices towards your daughters. What you think might be good for her, might just turn out to be really bad.
Like I said I'm just saying. |
How have they turned out? Why is ot really bad? And what constitutes 'over-protective'? |
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05/28/2006 02:15:34 PM · #22 |
Yeah I know I'm gonna get hit in the head for saying these things cause ya know I don't know any better :P Well you're right I can't speak from experience but I'm still just saying!
I'm not saying that you shouldn't keep an eye out for your children or be scared for them but just limit your restrictions. Ask questions that is very useful I think. Although I personally hate it, I'm all up for it, I get to be honest with my parents talk with them, even when there are some things I don't want them to know, they somehow get the idea of what happened.
Half of my class in New York (I don't know about the rest of the States) had lost their virginity at the age of 13 and there was even a girl there whose grandfather was a priest. Now that's sick.
You just don't know about the rebellious spirit teens have these days, yeah you've all passed through these ages but in a different time, in a better time.
Maybe you're kids will turn out differently, maybe they'll thank you cause you didn't let them wear bikinis or watch some tv shows or go to a friend's house. I hope so at least.
Message edited by author 2006-05-28 14:17:31.
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05/28/2006 02:17:52 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by amber:
As a 14/15 year old I would argue the same!:)
As a woman and a mother I would have to disagree...experience is a great teacher. |
Precisely. When I was fourteen or fifteen or sixteen I thought it was fun to dress provocatively -- what's the harm, right? It's cute! Everyone does it! Silly overprotective mother who thinks I should dress more modestly. What does she know, last time she was my age it was twenty years ago, times have changed. What a prude.
Then I got in way over my head with a 36-year-old 'boyfriend' who is still running around free today fifteen years later (although he lost his job and moved away) because at the time I was naive enough to think he truly cared about the 16-year-old girl in the cute little peasant blouse. Experience is indeed a great teacher.
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05/28/2006 02:17:53 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by greatandsmall:
Ennil, You are truly older and more sophisticated than your years; as your photography and posts clearly testifiy.
However, you must keep in mind that most teens your age have not been afforded the experiences that you have. I would venture a guess that you might find most American 14 year olds a little less mature than yourself. |
Actually, having seen what I've seen, I have to disagree. Ennil sounds rather typical. There is a broad spectrum of maturity at that age, this is true, but I don't think she sounds any more or less normal than most of the kids in my forums were. Adults always seem so surprised when they see a teenager lucidly and maturely speak their minds. 14 is not 30, but neither is it 8. It's sad, I think, that people are being so dismissive of her age instead of really listening to what she has to say, because it really is pertinent. She is precisely the demographic you, as parents, are trying to understand. "Sorry, but you dont know." Oh, but she does. Your typical 14/15 year old is much worldlier than you want to accept. Be brutally honest with yourself and look at what you were doing at 14. It wasn't so different when we were that young. It really truly was not.
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05/28/2006 02:19:58 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by laurielblack:
After having worked with about 450 parents under the age of 18 in the past four years, I think a 14 year old wearing a bikini for a studio portrait session is the LEAST of the world's social worries at the moment. Yeah, girls are going to wear bikinis and want to dress like Britney and Christina and Shakira and Lil' Kim, and the only people that can do anything about that are the parents and the media. Expecting (and moreover, telling) girls to NOT do that is like telling them "Please, go do it, now!"
Posting a few pictures, obviously in a studio setting and with permission from her parent/guardian, is probably not going to generate interest for the pedophiles lurking about. |
I hear what you are saying Laurie...but what most girls forget is that Britney, Christina and Shakira are surrounded by bodyguards. Something your average look-a-like teenager has no access to. What concerns me is that if a 14 year old is comfortable being photographed in a studio in a bikini at 14, what will she feel comfortable being photographed in/out of at 18? The shots without the Bikini are lovely - the bikini ones seem gratuitous.
Message edited by author 2006-05-29 00:34:03. |
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