Firing Strobes - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

05/15/2006 10:21:28 PM · #1

Has anyone tried the infra red transmitter in order to fire strobes? Ritz has one for 38 dollars. Would that be better than buying a hotshoe adapter in order to be able to plug in the sync cords? Right now I'm using the flash to trigger the strobe but I dont think it's working right.

renefunk

Canon EOS-5D

05/15/2006 10:38:25 PM · #2

one good thing is de wein infred red trigger but is 200 us or so

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8D ED

05/16/2006 09:54:38 AM · #3

Yeah 200 is a little much for me :( This transmitter seems to be just a little more than the AS-15 so I wondered if it was worth the little extra to go untethered.

Prof_Fate

05/16/2006 10:00:08 AM · #4

paterson makes one, about $45 via adorama.
What strobes? Not all can be triggered via infrared.

there are cheap wireless triggers on ebay that some folks like, i don't thought (but i tied them on location - too many false triggers).

Pocket wizards are the way to go, not inexpensive but a one-time lifetime solution.

nomad469

Nikon D700

05/16/2006 10:07:47 AM · #5

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Agree with Fate... Wizards are the answer

05/16/2006 10:09:33 AM · #6

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

I think this is a paterson infra red transmitter since it's by interfit. I have the Paterson Stellar strobes (which I thought would come with a manual, duh me!)

Prof_Fate

05/16/2006 10:18:06 AM · #7

You got that little one page piece of paper, right? What more do you need? LOL

Yeah, doc is a little sparse. Ever use a Metz product? It's German and the Germans assume you know how to use the product before reading the manual.

The paterson strobes work well with the IR trigger I have heard. inside anyway - the sun can confuse them if you're shooting outdoors.

the issue with the on-camera flash is you now have a direct uncontrolled flash probably where you don't want it, and trying to block it with a piece of paper and tape is really ghetto.

on my 300D i got a $10 hot shoe to PC adapter at Ritz. the Nikon version is tons better and prettier, but it worked anyway. my 30D has the PC connector so i use that for now - i hate it as the pc cord falls out often (same with the hot shoe adapter).

05/16/2006 10:25:27 AM · #8

Yeah that one piece of paper was realllllllllllll informative. :p Took me hours to put together the softboxes!

My problem is I'm a complete novice that knows less than nothing so I assumed they would tell me how to use them. My first attempt with the flash got the orange modelling light color and even at full power the strobe didnt seem to be very powerful due to the onboard flash. I think it may be firing too late and so it isnt showing up in the pic at all.

Hrm so AS-15 vs hot shoe to PC adapter vs infra red transmitter.

I'm soooooo in over my widdle head :(

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

05/16/2006 10:28:42 AM · #9

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Yeah, doc is a little sparse. Ever use a Metz product? It's German and the Germans assume you know how to use the product before reading the manual.

No, not quite, the Germans assume that their design of the controls (and the whole device in general) is so good that all operations are obvious and the manual is superfluous.

Prof_Fate

05/16/2006 10:47:42 AM · #10

set your camera on Manual mode, the shutter speed on 1/125.
aperture is what controls the amount of light, the exposure. shutter speed does nothing. you can get F14 from those lights no problem.

The problem with on camera flash is it is almost always TTL - so it will pre-flash to measure the scene and that pre-flash sets off the main strobes. also, the TTL can't measure/control the strobes so you'll never get anything consistent. if you block it's light form going directly forward then you might be ok in the mean time.

There are SOOO manyways to use strobes there are volumes of books written on the subject.

hi key, lo key, glamour, broad lighting, short lighting, 1 to 40 lights, then you have the modifiers and they all come in sizes or colors or both.

this book by christopher grey is one of the must haves. it shows almost every way to use your lights with diagrams, photos, and explanations. get it - it's not expensive.

now get a light meter. sekonic L358 is an excellent choice. you cannot set up lights with out one - I tried and it's worse than putting together that softbox LOL

For example:

there are 3 lights and a reflector. one light on the BG and two lights (my paterson 300s) to camera left. on the right is a 5in1 42" refelctor that acts as fill.

look at his nose - the one side is about a stop darker than the other. you need to be able to measure this accurately to get it right the first time. the BG light makes a circle of light behind him.

If you set the BG lights 3 stops over the main exposure the BG will go white, 3 stops under and it goes black. It does not matter what that BG is - you can make white paper black and black muslin go white. it's dynamic range thing. but to do this you need a light meter.

the modeling lights - just run them at full power. the proportional part sounds cool, but is useless if you know how to set up lights and use a meter. the modeling lights lets your camera focus, lets you and the model see what you're doing, and lets you see where the light is going to fall (like on the BG or not). that's about it - the proportional part is jsut a good sales feature (for people portraiture anyway).

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

05/16/2006 10:57:35 AM · #11

Thanks, good info in this thread.

The other day I was trying to fire a set of strobes as slaves off my flash and was scratching my head as to why it wasn't working consistently. Now I know.

This is another downfall of the 350xt over the 20d (or 30d now), no hot synch plug in.

05/16/2006 11:12:23 AM · #12

Are there any articles online or books that explain all the beginner studio things? I dont mean where to place the lights and the different lighting effects, but the real basic start stuff like sync cords and adapters, what a light meter does and how to use one, camera settings etc?

This is all turning out more complicated and expensive than I thought. I should have stuck with my trusty desklamp! :P

05/16/2006 12:19:26 PM · #13

The above was shot with 2 300 watt strobes at full power with softboxes attached positioned 45 degrees either side of the subject. The camera was set to manual at 1/125 at F2.8 spot metering. The strobes were triggered via a SB-800 on the camera positioned directly up at the ceiling.

I know I'm pretty stupid but from what I've read that setup should work, right? It's clearly very underexposed and that's at full power at 2.8. I've read that full power at 2.8 is like super bright. Clearly I'm doing something wrong, but I dont have a clue. Any suggestions?

05/16/2006 01:11:26 PM · #14

Originally posted by TrynityRose:

What does your flashmeter read?

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

05/16/2006 01:21:53 PM · #15

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

What does your flashmeter read?

I dont have one :(

cwlawrence

Nikon D70

05/16/2006 01:29:51 PM · #16

Not much, but here are a few links to usefull lighting tutorials.

My Blog

05/16/2006 01:38:14 PM · #17

Originally posted by TrynityRose:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

What does your flashmeter read?

I dont have one :(

Well, there ya go...

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

05/16/2006 01:48:35 PM · #18

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by TrynityRose:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

What does your flashmeter read?

I dont have one :(

Well, there ya go...

So what is a flashmeter going to tell me that I'm not already doing? How can putting two strobes at max power be underexposing? There is no alternative than spending 200+ dollars on a flashmeter to get more light than a 60 watt desklamp?

Elvis_L

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

05/16/2006 02:08:40 PM · #19

I am by no means an expert (actually i would be the opposite of an expert) but if you don't think the strobes are firing in time how about pointing the camera at them to see if they are lit up in the picture. I just got some very cheap strobes which are being activated by my built in flash and they are much brighter than what you are showing and i was at f/11.

05/16/2006 02:09:02 PM · #20

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by TrynityRose:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

What does your flashmeter read?

I dont have one :(

Well, there ya go...

Originally posted by TrynityRose:

So what is a flashmeter going to tell me that I'm not already doing?

It'll tell you what your exposure should be and not leave you swinging in the dark. Quite literally in this case. If your meter reads f16 and you are under at f2.8, that should tell you something.

Originally posted by TrynityRose:

How can putting two strobes at max power be underexposing?

Well, that's the question now isn't it?

Originally posted by TrynityRose:

There is no alternative than spending 200+ dollars on a flashmeter to get more light than a 60 watt desklamp?

Having the right tools for the job is a BIG step in the right direction.

Message edited by author 2006-05-16 14:55:47.

05/16/2006 03:12:49 PM · #21

My guess is that your shutter and your strobe are so far out of sync that the time when the flash fires and the time when the shutter is open are mutually exclusive.

It's not clear exactly HOW you are triggering your strobes, but, if you are using the on camera flash to trigger an optical sync on the strobes and the strobes are indeed firing at some point, then you must be triggering your strobes with the "pre-flash".

The way to check this would be to: A) Get a hotshoe adapter and try that, if your flash is suddenly synced, then that was your problem.

or

B) Set up your strobes somewhere without any ambient illumination (basement, garage, etc) and don't turn on the sync. Set the shutter speed to a long exposure, say 15sec. Open the shutter, then manually fire the strobes. If you get better exposure then whatever you are doing to sync your lights isn't working.

05/16/2006 03:21:46 PM · #22

I'm guessing that is my problem. If I change my shutter speed to 1/30 then things get brighter, I'm guessing since it's open longer and can catch some of the strobe flash. Which goes back to my original question of whether the infra red transmitter would be better than the hotshoe adapter. I'm thinking the infra red would be the same sync problem as my flash due to the position of the led's on the strobes. I'm likely going to end up getting the AS-15 although I guess I have to check on the voltage thing first. In the meantime I'm going to check reviews on the interfit flash meter.

Thanks for all the responses, I've just been a little cranky and frustrated since I feel like I dont have a clue and there are lots of things I should have known that I expected to get answers to with a manual. Everyone else makes it look so easy.