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05/02/2006 11:43:09 AM · #26 |
There is nothing cowardly, or unethical, about taking a self-DQ for the purpose of preventing a bad score from lowering your average. All you are doing is taking advantage of one of the features the site offers. The self-DQed image will not be included in your average score, it will not appear in the table of entries on your profile page, and it will not appear in the challenge results. The only bad part of it is that if you get another DQ within your next 25 submissions you'll get a suspension. That's a risk each must calculate for themselves. I have done it twice. First in the Triangle challenge, and more recently in the Yellow III challenge. When you work hard over a long period of time to bring up your average score a relapse into the netherworld of the low 4's can undo quite a bit of positive effort. Who has not entered one that at the time seemed like a good shot but turned out to be a clunker in the eyes of the voters?
Wait until near the end of the voting period and see how you feel then. Your score may come up to an acceptable level. If not, dump it and don't look back. But be careful for the next 25.
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05/02/2006 11:43:47 AM · #27 |
I definitely would warn against a self-DQ. After having had a recent DQ myself (in which I honestly believed I had followed the rules), if I had self-DQed earlier I would be in deep doodoo. ;-)
Grin and bear it. A 4 here and there isn't going to kill your average and like others have said, you can learn a lot from those photos too. Do what you want, it's certainly your right. But you're increasing your risk of an unexpected interruption in your ability to participate in challenges. :-)
Message edited by author 2006-05-02 11:44:54. |
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05/02/2006 11:56:36 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by Guyver:
*Points at amber's cow bell*
"Unclean!! Unclean!!"
:P
(Sorry, had to :) ) |
No problem:)) I'm surprised you can't hear my bell even now, with my negative challenge score - I've already had complaints from the neighbours about the din:)) |
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05/02/2006 12:04:17 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Wait until near the end of the voting period and see how you feel then. Your score may come up to an acceptable level. If not, dump it and don't look back. But be careful for the next 25. |
Speaking as a member of Self DQ Annoymous (SDA) I concur. When I entered the Free Study challenge my first 17 votes left me at 4.00. Incensed, I immediately thought about SDQing. But I took my own advice and decided 'Who cares?'. Now it's up to 5.9! How silly do I feel now? |
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05/02/2006 12:07:40 PM · #30 |
| take it. Don't DQ yourself because of potential low scores. I DQ'd myself recently but it was because I screwed up and saved my photo at 25KB instead of 150KB. |
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05/02/2006 12:13:21 PM · #31 |
I'll echo here that self-dq is a bad idea, but most of all, I'd like to thank you for the proper use of the word "dilemma."
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05/02/2006 12:16:31 PM · #32 |
| I have never appreciated the implementation of this rule, and don't consider it as an option to use lightly. Basically, I would view it as an opportunity to tweak one's avg. score or other self serving reasons & amounts to challenge manipulation. The rule may have some good effect, possibly if and when a legal issue would be at stake. |
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05/02/2006 12:16:33 PM · #33 |
I would not request the DQ. I have had similar experience with a run of good scores then a sudden dip. The very best photographers here experience the same thing, so don't be concerned about this temporary lull.
BTW, it is possible to get a preview of how voters will react to a particular photo. Register at DailyAwards.com where your entries will receive adequate feedback within a day or two. If it scores poorly there it will really bomb on DPC! |
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05/02/2006 12:21:02 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by hopper:
(taken from the challenge rules)
You may request removal of your own photo, for any reason, if:
You make the request during the voting period.
Originally posted by theSaj:
I disagree with Hopper. I don't think a self-DQ is your right. |
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Can...yes...but I am talking about should.
And frankly, I think it is the epitome of lameness. To me, it's no better than walking off a baseball field because you're losing. It's poor sportsmanship and a good way to lose one's self-respect IMHO. |
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05/02/2006 12:31:45 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by "coolhar":
There is nothing cowardly, or unethical, about taking a self-DQ for the purpose of preventing a bad score from lowering your average. |
Yes...there is....it's like taking a mulligan in golf. You walk away with a score but it's bologne. It's nothing more than lying to yourself and others. All to maintain a perceived appearance.
Why, I imagine that I'd be much happier with my average if I could drop all my 4.x and even my 3.x
What's the point of an average then? Yes, this is my average (good scoring photos ONLY). It is also unfair to everyone else. Who did not massage and toy with their average. So, you eliminate your bad scoring photos so you can stay on top of joe and jane member. So, yes, you get too look better than Joe and Jane...by "cheating".
So I am in a conundrum, I find the averages quite useful. But I am trying to see the following:
a) either averages are not a big deal (then why worry and remove your photo)...makes no sense
b) they're a big deal & competitive, if that is the case, by self-DQing to raise your score, you've essentially cheated to get above those who you would have been lower than.
So I see no point to do so in the first case. And a very unethical motivation in the second.
"When you work hard over a long period of time to bring up your average score a relapse into the netherworld of the low 4's can undo quite a bit of positive effort. Who has not entered one that at the time seemed like a good shot but turned out to be a clunker in the eyes of the voters? "
Oh dear...why even be challenged. Wait...what was that old code I could type into DOOM so I got unlimited guns, ammo and health? Why, I am sure I should be able to type in a code to DPC to simply change all my scores to 7.0. What might it be... MyDPC=7.0 perhaps?
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05/02/2006 12:38:28 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by undieyatch:
I have never appreciated the implementation of this rule, and don't consider it as an option to use lightly. Basically, I would view it as an opportunity to tweak one's avg. score or other self serving reasons & amounts to challenge manipulation. The rule may have some good effect, possibly if and when a legal issue would be at stake. |
Have to disagree with you undieyatch and Saj:
a) I don't care about my avg.score. I don't even know what it is and rarely look.
b)It's mainly about normal human feelings: Getting a load of 1s, 2's 3's and 4's for an image usually illicits feelings of shame and inadequacy. Not pleasant. Normal human response is to make those feelings go away - hence SDQ.
c) turning off the votes is not an option either. You know it's there, you just can't see it. Like a boil on your bum.
D) No one likes to feel like their work/hobby/passion is crap - it's a normal human response and NOTHING to do with 'challenge manipulation'.
E) This is supposed to be FUN.
Message edited by author 2006-05-02 12:40:09. |
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05/02/2006 12:41:06 PM · #37 |
unless i've accidentally submitted to the wrong challenge or something similar, i won't self dq either.
... but it doesn't bother me to find out that someone else has, doesn't affect my score any :)
ps ... i didn't realize self dq's didn't show up on profile pages. My ignorance of this is what prompted me to question scalvert on another thread regarding his self dq. I've already done this, but i'll again apologize to him for thinking he was perhaps over using his magical SC power.
I'm sorry Shannon
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by hopper:
(taken from the challenge rules)
You may request removal of your own photo, for any reason, if:
You make the request during the voting period.
Originally posted by theSaj:
I disagree with Hopper. I don't think a self-DQ is your right. |
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Can...yes...but I am talking about should.
And frankly, I think it is the epitome of lameness. To me, it's no better than walking off a baseball field because you're losing. It's poor sportsmanship and a good way to lose one's self-respect IMHO. |
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05/02/2006 12:54:51 PM · #38 |
:) Personally I think a self-DQ is a cop out. Even if it's a horrible photograph and ends up with a brown, a SDQ will force the number 1 contender for the Brown to step up to the plate. Having myself recently being a 2 or 3 off the brown, I can see the problem.
For someone to be a winner, someone has to come last I guess. If all the last places DQ, then the 2nd lasts will start the same thing, and so on. Pretty soon each challenge will have one photograph pulling all the ribbons from Blue to Brown..... OK OK maybe I'm getting a bit carried away, but you know what I mean.
Take the 4, take the brown, who cares. Maybe one day there will be a "Brown Ribbon winners" challenge only.... Could be fun.
E |
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05/02/2006 12:56:49 PM · #39 |
| For the record, self dq's don't always go away. I think if you self dq for a rule violation it stays - at least mine did :) |
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05/02/2006 12:59:03 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Yes...there is....it's like taking a mulligan in golf. You walk away with a score but it's bologne. It's nothing more than lying to yourself and others. All to maintain a perceived appearance.
Why, I imagine that I'd be much happier with my average if I could drop all my 4.x and even my 3.x
What's the point of an average then? Yes, this is my average (good scoring photos ONLY). It is also unfair to everyone else. Who did not massage and toy with their average. So, you eliminate your bad scoring photos so you can stay on top of joe and jane member. So, yes, you get too look better than Joe and Jane...by "cheating".
So I am in a conundrum, I find the averages quite useful. But I am trying to see the following:
a) either averages are not a big deal (then why worry and remove your photo)...makes no sense
b) they're a big deal & competitive, if that is the case, by self-DQing to raise your score, you've essentially cheated to get above those who you would have been lower than.
So I see no point to do so in the first case. And a very unethical motivation in the second.
"When you work hard over a long period of time to bring up your average score a relapse into the netherworld of the low 4's can undo quite a bit of positive effort. Who has not entered one that at the time seemed like a good shot but turned out to be a clunker in the eyes of the voters? "
Oh dear...why even be challenged. Wait...what was that old code I could type into DOOM so I got unlimited guns, ammo and health? Why, I am sure I should be able to type in a code to DPC to simply change all my scores to 7.0. What might it be... MyDPC=7.0 perhaps? |
Saj, you are wrong. There is no comparison to baseball or golf. The rules for dpc allow a self-DQ. There is no parallel in those sports. The 25 submission limitation is the check against improper use of the self-DQ.
And all the rest of you who speak against using it, shame on you for laying such a guilt trip on someone who is merely taking advantage of something that is entirly and unquestionably a legal thing to do here at dpc. I wish some of you would speak out with equal outrage at the shady practices that clearly help people to cheat. I think the real cowards in this are the one's who blindly follow the crowd and are afraid to speak against the most popular viewpoint.
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05/02/2006 12:59:32 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Tallbloke:
Gawd, my mojo has completely deserted me
After a run of 6+ scores from January, then a couple of 5+ scores, my current submission is sitting in the 4's (talk about a downward slide)
I understand I can reqest a self DQ but don't know if I should go down that route.
sigh, it's not that important really but even for a virtual ribbon in a fun online challenge it kinda gets you down a bit.
Steve |
As another Steve who thinks you are an incredibly good photographer, let me add my tidbit of advice to the chorus of others who have commented...
Don't self-DQ. Instead, take that as an opportunity to learn something about why an image of yours would be rated so poorly. You will learn far more from that than you'll ever learn from an image that scores an 8.
This reminds me of an experience I had when I was a young and idealistic computer programmer. I'd spent over three months slave laboring over a new computer system. I put in weekends and all night work sessions on the project. I practically sweated blood over it. After it went into production an end user wrote a very public memo explaining, in great detail, what was wrong with the system. I was crushed, not to mention that my professional integrity was on the line though I certainly did not understand it at the time.
I addressed and corrected the issues and that end user later become one of my greatest allies in my work. I kept that memo posted on my office wall for almost 15 years as a constant reminder to me to do the best I can possibly do for the customer.
Keep all your 4 scores... they will only propel you to greater accomplishment.
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05/02/2006 01:03:23 PM · #42 |
| It's true that there's no limitations on the reason that you choose to self-DQ but I prefer to think of it as a safety net for situations like submitting to the wrong challenge, rather than just getting a score that you don't like. It's up to each person to decide exactly how they want to use the self-DQ but I don't think there's anything wrong with others sharing their opinions about it - it seems to be what the OP is asking for. |
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05/02/2006 01:04:57 PM · #43 |
| I think the real issue here is that Scalvert considers 4 entries out of 100 to be "lots of fours." :) |
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05/02/2006 08:24:56 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
and another member actually quit rather than have an image bring down his precious average. Repeat after me: It's just for fun... |
I wondered what happened to him. I miss the hummingbird shot from my favorites. Too bad he felt that way. I enjoyed his photography.
Sorry, off topic. |
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05/02/2006 08:35:18 PM · #45 |
Sheepishly, I admit, I did self DQ once...I, too had lost my mojo ( what mojo I have, anyway !)
I had entered another medicocre shot and it was driving me nuts. So I DQed, I did. And I vowed if my average was important to me I simply would NOT enter any shots I was not really really happy with. It forced me to work just a little harder, and understand that my world would not stop spinning if I didn't enter one week. Now I'll miss a challenge rather then enter something I don't really dig. LIke this week, I may miss this week :)
I think I have been doing better, things seemed to have kicked back in...
You have to make your own choice, but I thought I'd offer another opinion :))
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05/02/2006 08:38:07 PM · #46 |
| i would gladly trade low scores for my pink stripes in my profile. the stripes just stands out too much. but these days, i wear it as a somwehat badge of honor... LOL! kinda like saying, been there. done that. don't wanna go back! |
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05/02/2006 08:39:29 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Rikki:
i would gladly trade low scores for my pink stripes in my profile. the stripes just stands out too much. but these days, i wear it as a somwehat badge of honor... LOL! kinda like saying, been there. done that. don't wanna go back! |
Pink is the new Black, tho :))
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05/02/2006 08:42:56 PM · #48 |
| you know, i just realized, a self DQ doesn't give you a pink band :) |
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05/02/2006 08:47:55 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Rikki:
you know, i just realized, a self DQ doesn't give you a pink band :) |
I can't even find it in my past entries! I may have torn it up and thrown it away :)
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05/02/2006 08:57:06 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by Rae-Ann:
Originally posted by Rikki:
you know, i just realized, a self DQ doesn't give you a pink band :) |
I can't even find it in my past entries! I may have torn it up and thrown it away :) |
a self DQ makes it appear that it has never happened. but just make sure you don't get successive DQs as they still count as a regular DQ sans the pink band ;) |
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