New Flash... You gotta start somewhere

Olympus 12-45mm f/4.0 Pro

04/12/2006 11:15:00 AM · #1

In my endeavors to broaden my horizons and move from landscape photography to form/model photography, I went out and got me a brand new shiny Sigma EF-500 DG Super Flash based on the advice I received from you fine folks. Well, it came in today and I'm very excited!!!

I have looked at the manual and decided to to read the Japanese translation as they appeared to make more sense. I have the sinking feeling that I am getting in WAY over my head and think that I will begin with the FULL AUTO TTL mode. I really have a strong desire to learn how to properly use this equipment to it's full capabilities, but at present I am somewhat lost. I know I know, why buy something you don't know how to use.... Well, if I don't have it, how am I supposed to learn how to use it?

My question to you guys is what is the best way to learn how to use it? Are there some exercises/tests that will help me up this very steep learning curve? I know that everyone on this site had to start off equally confused. What helped you out? I have managed to progress through the features of my camera over the past year to move from full auto to Av to now feeling only slightly uncomfortable in full manual mode. I would like to do the same with the flash, but it seems more confusing to me. I work in ophthalmology so the camera optics/principles weren't that unfamiliar to me since the mechanism is basically the same as how the eye functions. Light on the other hand is a different beast entirely and I need much hand holding and guidance. I am a visual/hands-on learner and don't do well by simply reading instructions.

Will someone hold my hand? :-)

OdysseyF22

Panasonic DC-G9

04/12/2006 11:33:40 AM · #2

I'm going to lurk around this one and see what I can learn from you fine folks, too, as I'll be getting the same or similar flash in the near future.

*settles in to take notes*

NstiG8tr

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

04/12/2006 11:53:12 AM · #3

I got mine last week Lee. I threw some batteries in it, pushed all the little buttons, fired it off with the test button, tilted the head back and forth and rotated it around. I mounted it on the hotshoe to see how it looked on the camera. Cool I thought. "Now what?" I asked myself. I proceeded to get the instruction manual out and read it a bit. I agree the Japanese version is probably easier to understand. "Hmmm, this should be an interesting experience" is the last thing I remember muttering before I put it back into the box.
Since we both now have the same camera and flash unit, maybe we can learn from each other through PM and this thread. Good Luck and have fun with the new toy even if it is just blinding people with the test button LOL.

notonline

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

04/12/2006 11:56:50 AM · #4

what I wanna know is what advantages does your flash have vs. the 580EX???

Phil

Canon EOS-7D

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

04/12/2006 12:01:41 PM · #5

Originally posted by notonline:

what I wanna know is what advantages does your flash have vs. the 580EX???

Couple hundred bucks cheaper?

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

04/12/2006 12:05:13 PM · #6

Originally posted by dudephil:

Originally posted by notonline:
what I wanna know is what advantages does your flash have vs. the 580EX???
Couple hundred bucks cheaper?

Yep... pretty much.

NstiG8tr

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

04/12/2006 12:12:07 PM · #7

Originally posted by Palmetto_Pixels:

Originally posted by dudephil:

Originally posted by notonline:
what I wanna know is what advantages does your flash have vs. the 580EX???
Couple hundred bucks cheaper?

Yep... pretty much.

Exactly. I figured for the little bit I'll probably use it and my non-existant knowledge of it, $229 was better than $379. After I learn how to use it and If I decide I need something different, I'll get it. But I doubt that I will ever need anything bigger than this one.

04/12/2006 12:12:09 PM · #8

I found this site really helpful:
//www.planetneil.com/faq/flash-techniques.html

Mind you I'm fairly new to flash photography myself and just got my first flash a week ago (2 more coming by end of month to complete Nikon's Creative Lighting System).

I'm going to watch this thread as well, but you might want to give that link a try to start out.

One of the things I found most interesting is for a large number of his photos he shoots with the flash pointed backwards over his shoulder.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

04/12/2006 12:21:52 PM · #9

Cool, thanks for the link... This seems to be a high interest subject, maybe someone would be willing to take on a "mentorship".

hsteg

Fujifilm X-T20

04/12/2006 12:25:33 PM · #10

Originally posted by dsmeth:

Originally posted by Palmetto_Pixels:

Originally posted by dudephil:

Originally posted by notonline:
what I wanna know is what advantages does your flash have vs. the 580EX???
Couple hundred bucks cheaper?

Yep... pretty much.

Exactly. I figured for the little bit I'll probably use it and my non-existant knowledge of it, $229 was better than $379. After I learn how to use it and If I decide I need something different, I'll get it. But I doubt that I will ever need anything bigger than this one.

I had a sigma flash, it broke. stopped firing when it was supposed to. when it fires, it doesnt fire in sync with the camera either.

bluenova

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

04/12/2006 12:43:51 PM · #11

Originally posted by hsteg:

Originally posted by dsmeth:

Originally posted by Palmetto_Pixels:

Originally posted by dudephil:

Originally posted by notonline:
what I wanna know is what advantages does your flash have vs. the 580EX???
Couple hundred bucks cheaper?

Yep... pretty much.

Exactly. I figured for the little bit I'll probably use it and my non-existant knowledge of it, $229 was better than $379. After I learn how to use it and If I decide I need something different, I'll get it. But I doubt that I will ever need anything bigger than this one.

I had a sigma flash, it broke. stopped firing when it was supposed to. when it fires, it doesnt fire in sync with the camera either.

Way to make the guys who just bought it feel good. This could happen with any electronic equipment. That's what Warranty is for.

Message edited by author 2006-04-12 12:44:19.

Tamron 70-180mm F/2.8 Di III VXD

04/12/2006 12:58:56 PM · #12

We can discuss flash types Canon vs. Sigma, Nikon vs. Canon, etc. etc. etc. till the cows come home. The main purpose of this thread is to learn how to use a flash, not how to choose a flash (that thread was last week). I'm not trying to be rude, I just want to make sure we stay focused on the subject at hand.

Does anyone have any useful exercises or practice techniques flash newbies like me can use to become accustomed to our shiny new flashes (regardless of what kind it is). How do you go about learning how all that techno-jargon in the manual gets applied in the real world?

MadMan2k

Sony Alpha a6400

04/12/2006 01:10:10 PM · #13

Track down a victim.. oops I mean subject.

Stand in front of them, zoom in or move in to fill the frame with their head and part of their neck, swivel the flash so it points up at the ceiling and casts light down onto their face. Press the shutter button. Look at the LCD to see how cool it looks.

Then swivel the flash so it casts the light on the wall behind you, and reflects back past you onto the subject. Look in the LCD and compare.

Then swivel the flash so it points directly at their face. Look in the LCD and see how much crappier it looks.

Then turn the camera to portrait orientation, swivel it to bounce the light off of the floor. Look at the LCD to see how scary they look.

Then grab a little toy car or some other small object. Put it on your desk on a piece of paper or something similar. Zoom in as far as you can, get close to the subject, focus on it, swivel the flash to bounce the light off the ceiling, take a picture. Look in the LCD and ooh and ahh about how sweet the lighting is.

Then go outside in mid-day and try to use the flash to light stuff. Come to your own conclusion about why 'action' sports are usually photographed in the evening.

Wait until it's dark, grab a telephoto lens and go outside. Zoom in, set the focus to infinity and point the camera at some faraway subject. Set the flash to maximum power and set your camera to the max sync speed and ISO 800 or so, and the widest aperture you can. Take a picture, and ooh and ahh about how well the flash can light stuff up faraway.

EDIT:
While you're at it, some stuff to consider:
You'll usually want the shutter speed to be at the fastest X-sync speed for your camera. On my 350D it's 1/200th of a second, on a 20D it's 1/250th, on a 1D or a D50/D70 it's 1/500th I believe.
There's a custom function on my camera to set the shutter speed to the max X-sync when the flash is on, but it doesn't work with my flash because it's dedicated and not E-TTL. You might as well use Manual mode, and set the shutter speed to 1/200th, and then set the aperture to whatever the flash is set to (if yours has aperture settings, or it might even find that out from the camera automatically).
As you'll probably find out, the aperture and ISO are mainly what controls the flash exposure... setting the shutter speed to slower than the max X-sync will expose the entire scene as if no flash were used, on top of the exposure you get from firing the flash. This will work at night, for example, if you photograph a person in front of a faraway, dark background and you want to expose the background as well as the person. Just set the shutter speed to 1/10th or so instead of 1/200th, and you'll get the background much more exposed. This will not work so well in all situations, of course...

If shooting a moving subject with flash at night, you can also make use of a slower shutter speed to pan with the subject and get some light trail effects going on with the lights in the background. Try it out.

Message edited by author 2006-04-12 13:20:30.

Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS

04/12/2006 02:09:09 PM · #14

Thanks MadMan.... exactly what I was looking for.

Canon EOS-60D

04/12/2006 02:50:21 PM · #15

I have the same flash, purchased just a couple of months ago. I, too, have read the manual, but it might as well be written in Egyptian heiroglyphics for all it meant to me. ;)

I am a big fan of the "what does THIS button do?" method. I'm always trying different settings and pushing different buttons on the silly thing, just to see what happens. I keep two sets of batteries charged for it, and play around with it a lot. I've blinded my children, my pets, and have given extensive light therapy to many flowers around my home. I do think it is a tried and true method, though. I keep learning many, many ways how NOT to use the flash, if nothing else.

My favorite flash accessory though has to be my Lightsphere II, which has made the use of the flash a wonderful and simple thing. I highly recommend it, both as a learning tool and as a cool little toy to have in your bag.

04/12/2006 03:36:33 PM · #16

Originally posted by laurielblack:

My favorite flash accessory though has to be my Lightsphere II, which has made the use of the flash a wonderful and simple thing. I highly recommend it, both as a learning tool and as a cool little toy to have in your bag.

Yeah, that's how I tend to do things too, but for this I want a direction to go in. I have a wedding someone wants me to do (a son of a friend thing). They've seen my work and really want me to shoot the wedding. I can't seem to make them understand that there is a HUGE difference between my "art" and shooting a once-in-a-lifetime event. Regardless, I'm seriously considering it but my time frame is limited and the learning curve is steep. One necessary ingredient will be the flash.

I have every intention of getting the lightsphere, but I can't decide if I want to do that or use that $50 to put into my Alien Bees charity fund.

PS: The Palmetto_Pixels Alien Bees Charity Fund is now accepting any and all donations. ;-)

04/12/2006 04:07:49 PM · #17

If you're gonna be shooting a wedding get the lightsphere, it will pay off faster than the alien bees in that situation.

Edit: and I was interested in studio strobes (like Alien Bees) but now I'm considering trying to do it all with multiple flashes. More portable and easier to set up...

Message edited by author 2006-04-12 16:09:25.

04/12/2006 04:32:56 PM · #18

Originally posted by Megatherian:

If you're gonna be shooting a wedding get the lightsphere, it will pay off faster than the alien bees in that situation.

That's why I'm considering buying the lightsphere sooner than I planned.

Originally posted by Megatherian:

Edit: and I was interested in studio strobes (like Alien Bees) but now I'm considering trying to do it all with multiple flashes. More portable and easier to set up...

I've considered that also, but price-wise they're gonna be about the same (if you get good flashes). You also have more versatility with studio strobes. Of course I'm planning on setting up a dedicated studio so portability will be less of an issue for me.

Edit to add....

What about AC slave flashes? I've been toying with the idea of using those in a studio environment (at least until I can get some AB's). They're dirt cheap, but I don't know how practical that option is. Seems there was a thread not too long ago about them, but I can't remember the specifics. Seemed to work OK though (if memory serves).

Message edited by author 2006-04-12 16:35:40.

04/12/2006 04:44:21 PM · #19

Ultimately the flashes are costing me $800 - 2 sb600s and an sb800. They work wirelessly and come with stands that can be tripod mounted. For a studion I could easily shoot them into umbrellas etc. so I see it as the best of both worlds - studio and portable.

Like I said I'm a newbie myself though. Anyone have any reasons why flashes would be worse than studio strobes?

I'm also curious if anyone has tried using multiple lightspheres on remote flashes?

04/12/2006 05:13:12 PM · #20

You can do an umbrella, but what about a softbox? I would also think the modeling light on strobes would be helpful for setting up the shot. For $800 you can get a 3 light AB package or close to it(if memory serves).

I hear what you're saying, but I would just think that for a studio, it would be better to go with strobes for more flexibility and ease of shot set-up.

Of course what do I know, I can't even work my new flash :-)

This is kind of the blind leading the blind though ... anyone with more experience care to chime in?

04/12/2006 05:59:36 PM · #21

yes, a lot of this is wild speculation on my part and I would like others to weigh in on it. I did want to note that while yes, the 3 flashes are $800 - most proffesionals will buy at least 1 flash anyway (likely the sb800 in my case) so really it's $300 beyond the price of the base flash which (if it really can) produce studio quality results is actually a deal - especially considering just how portable they are.

As far as recycle times go, I'm using 2500mA rechargables and at full power it takes under 2 seconds (I tested for 10 flashes).

04/13/2006 07:12:53 AM · #22

Yeah, I have my one flash now (played around with it last night... still getting the hang of it). Now for the decision on strobes.

Oh, and.... uhm.... bump.

fall_leaf05

Canon EOS-10D

04/13/2006 10:19:08 AM · #23

Palmetto_Pixels, the site that was mentioned before in this forum is an excellent one. It really will get you through, step by step, on how to use your flash. Reading the manual is good, and of course getting a "victim" to practice on is even better.

Since you mentioned that you are possibly going to be shooting a wedding, I decided to mention an excellent source of information that you might need to know for a wedding, Wedding Photographers forum. You will find all kind of helpful information there, anything from lighting to contracts, etc.

Good luck.

Ampao64