Studio lighting........ - DPChallenge Forums

04/11/2006 12:11:40 PM · #1

Picking up Interfit Stellar 600 flash kit at lunch today. Has 2-600watt bulbs, 250watt modeling light, softbox and umpbrella with stands. Also picking up a light meter and a infrared slave....."YES" I'm buying this with no clue how to use them......and thats why this post. Need advice and resources to learn quickly. I need a backdrop, any suggestions on basic over all color that maybe standard for studio work?.....any tips would be great....Thanks ace

Message edited by author 2006-04-11 12:12:14.

04/11/2006 12:21:09 PM · #2

Funny you should ask this question right now. I JUST finished doing a lighting tutorial for a friend... I will share it with you.

Firstly - the goal here was to learn Rembrandt Lighting which is just one of many lighting styles.

This is a diagram of how I set my lights / model / camera for this look:

This diagram doesn't show hair or background light, of course you could add those if you want. Also, I used a single softbox and a reflector for a softer look, you could use 2 lights - again up to you.
Here is a shot of me in my pajamas this morning modeling what the diagram shows. I left the tripod where the camera would be. Yes, my studio is a mess & needs to be cleaned.

And this is an example of portraits using that technique

Hope that helps.

Message edited by author 2006-04-11 12:22:56.

04/11/2006 12:31:05 PM · #3

Cool, thats the lighting arrangement I was going to test, along with using the other light as a strong light and softbox as fill. I do have a backlight as third light. It would be great if you could email me or post your tutorial. What's a good standard backdrop color and size? thinking gray?.....Thanks for the Help....ace

PhilipDyer

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/11/2006 12:34:33 PM · #4

Some people will do anything to win the Color Studio Portrait challenge. ;-)

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

04/11/2006 12:46:58 PM · #5

Ace, I told my friend basically what I just told you. The main thing with rembrandt lighting is that you get a bit of light on the cheek that is away from the light - so not 1/2 light, 1/2 dark - that is why the main light is just a little in front of the 45 degree axis.

As for backdrops, you can go with paper, muslin, velvet, sheets, whatever - I prefer muslin & paper. And there is no right answer to the "what color" question. I choose background based on my model's clothing, hair color, feel of the portrait, any number of things. I don't think there is one back drop that would be perfect for ANY portrait.

Tell me a bit more about the "feel" you want to create in your portraits...

oOWonderBreadOo

Canon EOS-5D

04/11/2006 12:52:20 PM · #6

This looked like a really great thread too...

04/11/2006 12:53:34 PM · #7

Didn't puchase for the challenge, yet timing is perfect! I have 5 couples coming over this Saturday evening, teenagers going to there first Prom. They will be dressed formal clothing.
One thing I notice is DPC portraits are tightly cropped, but the so called studios do more of a profile- waste up or full body profile shot?

Message edited by author 2006-04-11 12:55:41.

04/11/2006 12:57:23 PM · #8

There are 3 classic portrait styles: headshot (usually includes shoulders), 2/3 body or full body. full body requires a large amount of space as you always want your model at LEAST 5 feet away from the bg (for separation and bokeh).

Young people like background that are bright (white) or very colorful. So I would NOT go with gray for them. White would probably be your best bet, then you could use colorful props and clothing to make them pop.

04/11/2006 01:12:30 PM · #9

Thanks guys. Will do some late night researching. Any first hand help I can get is appreciated......Thanks All

04/11/2006 05:46:37 PM · #10

Bump for the evening crowd...

nova

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 35mm f/1.4L USM

04/11/2006 07:34:11 PM · #11

Originally posted by idnic:

Bump for the evening crowd...

Speaking as one of the evening crowd, thanks for the bump. Sneaky way to get more views, idnic-cindi, mentioning "this is me in my PJ's this morning"! :o) All joking aside, thanks for the tutorial, I'll be putting it to use too. -Ray

04/11/2006 07:40:50 PM · #12

Originally posted by nova:

Originally posted by idnic:
Bump for the evening crowd...

Speaking as one of the evening crowd, thanks for the bump. Sneaky way to get more views, idnic-cindi, mentioning "this is me in my PJ's this morning"! :o) All joking aside, thanks for the tutorial, I'll be putting it to use too. -Ray

Hahahaha! Sorry I wasn't wearing cuter PJs, Ray ;)

Prof_Fate

04/11/2006 08:29:32 PM · #13

there is a book on lighting by christopher grey - $18 or so at amazon. GET IT.
I have the paterson stellar 300s - nice lights, and a sekonic 358 (PW ready..just need the PWs!)

There are many lighting styles and ways to do things.
This is two lights on camera left with umbrellas, one small flash behind the subject pointed at the BG, and a 5 in 1 reflector to camera right.
-main light is set via the meter to F5.6. the umbrella is turned to look like the camera is getting most of the light - the modeling light allows you to see where the light is going as your turn the assembly - the light hits the subjects face and the reflector (turning like this is called feathering). it also keeps 100% of this light off the BG.

the next light back is position the same - turned to keep the light off the BG. It is the kicker light, and provides some seperation of the subject form the BG, adds some hair light. This light is also set at f5.6. together you get an F8 at the camera (at 1/125 shutter - ALWAYS 1/125 for studio lights and always manual mode - but you knew that right?)

The little light in the back is on a 'back light stand' - a VERY short light stand ($20). i have a 100ws lumedyne, but most any light woudl work (430EX, SB600, etc). If the light on teh BG is set at F8 the BG appears normal. if at f16 (2 stops) it will be white or nearly so. if at F4, or 2 stops under the main exposure, it will be black. you can put a gel on the light to change the BG color. the BG in the photo is a 10x20 brownish muslin from Cole ($139) //www.coleandcompany.com/

if i had another light it would be a rim light set up behind the subject to camera right - this would backlight the subject on the dark side and seperate him from the BG even more. I have a few on-camera strobes but no stand - i think i can use an old tripod for this. Next Time as they say.

Same set up here - but with 2 60" octaboxes on the lights and the rear kicker with a 10x36 softbox

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/11/2006 09:42:35 PM · #14

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

(at 1/125 shutter - ALWAYS 1/125 for studio lights and always manual mode - but you knew that right?)

Well thats the first time I've heard that. :\

Why 1/125 ? If a given camera has an x-sync of 1/500 then why not use that ? Personally I prefer to use 1/160 in the studio but thats more to do with me using 1/3 EV increments instead of half stop increments.

cheers,
bazz.

ShorterThanJesus

Nikon D300

04/11/2006 09:57:16 PM · #15

I've had photography teachers push 1/60th as THE speed. I took that advice with a grain of salt as I know he was trying to simplify the process by giving one universally acceptable number (this is a class with people who, after 8 weeks, still couldn't figure out why their pictures were dark or shakey when shooting at f/22 inside...).

I honestly haven't seen any evidence for a certain speed apart from the sync reasoning. My camera maxes out at 1/160th so that's what I'd shoot at if I were using strobes. I personally like sharp portraits but I guess the subtle movements of one's body at 1/60th might add to the soft appearance seen as desirable by many.

KevinRiggs

Canon EOS-1Ds

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/11/2006 10:06:58 PM · #16

The flash duration on most strobes is so fast that a slower shutter speed won't affect the flash lighting and what it exposes at the x-sync speed.

Slowing down the shutter from the x-sync causes the exposure to pick up ambient lighting that can give more context to the image. It can create a little more depth but the strobes should be used to light the subject and freeze the subject's expression (unless you're intentionally trying to get some movement trails in the exposure or something).

Kev

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/11/2006 10:31:31 PM · #17

Originally posted by KevinRiggs:

Yep I understand that but depending on what one is trying to achieve with the lighting, ambient light may be an undesireable affect. So saying that one should always shoot at 1/125 or any other speed is just limiting creativity in the studio.

It's like suggesting that one should always use f8 as the selected aperture.

cheers,
bazz.

KevinRiggs

Canon EOS-1Ds

04/12/2006 12:25:20 AM · #18

Originally posted by sir_bazz:

So saying that one should always shoot at 1/125 or any other speed is just limiting creativity in the studio.

Oops. Didn't notice Chris' comment about always using that setting. Yeah, my default is to use the x-sync and only change it to incorporate ambient lighting effects. I'm curious now, too.

Kev

JRalston

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/12/2006 12:54:09 AM · #19

I am curious about the 1/125th as well. I almost always use 1/250th. My subjects are almost always children.....and they move fast..LOL

04/12/2006 08:07:04 PM · #20

Bump.

Still hoping for an open response from Chris.

bazz.

Prof_Fate

04/12/2006 09:27:32 PM · #21

Well...lots of reasons, all from books, Canon's l;iterature, teachers...

I know not everyone likes Ken Rockwell, but his advice is "Sometimes studio strobes, especially if you're using a few lashed together with optical slaves and a fast 1/500 sync, are slow enough to require a slower sync speed (like 1/250 or 1/125) to capture all the light of all the strobes. Use the fastest speed which gives you a full exposure. Speeds too fast will work, but lose light.
I would agree.

There is a delay from when you hit the shutter till the end of the strobe's fire time. Delay in the shutter moving, teh signal getting to the strobe(s), the strobe then firing, etc. On-camera flashes fire FAST, in the thousandths of a second (1/30,000 for a short blast for example). Studio strobes are more like hundredths of a second - 1/800 for example. Newer stobes may be faster as it's not an isuue with digital cameras, but slow was/is a design feature - to eliminate reciprocity failure in film.

Ambeint light might be an issue, but not likely. Have you a meter that can measure or diplay the percentage or ratio of flash to ambient? The Sekonic L358 and 558 do. That will tell you if the ambient is a factor or not. Generally 2 stops below your main exposure is going to black or at least very very dark. So if you are shooting F8 at 1/125 with the strobes, the room lights have to measure F4 at 1/125 or better to be recorded. In the photo I posted below/above (they guy) there are 2 2-tube shoplights above him and one more above the camera position. Shooting at 1/60 or so I get their color in in the image, but not at 1/125 and F8.

I have not measured it, but do modeling lights go off during the strobes fire time? Probably not...don't know though, but it'd be hard on teh bulbs themselves to 'blink' them at 1/500 or 1/2000 of a second.

Like afterschool special...
More Reading:
//www.photo-control.com/applications.asp - 5 PDF books on lighting by Norman.

Heck, just go get this one

Message edited by author 2006-04-12 21:32:43.

04/13/2006 01:54:44 AM · #22

Finally got everything out of the box. One of the modeling lights is broken. Not a problem, they will replace it tomorrow. I need to study up not doubt. Only shot a couple of shots of some old guy who needs sleep.

Thanks for all the good info. above.

One last question (can't find my manual to my 420ex can this be use as a backlight and fire with the 2 strobes?

Message edited by author 2006-04-15 01:36:22.

04/13/2006 02:10:19 AM · #23

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Well...lots of reasons, all from books, Canon's l;iterature, teachers...

That info is all well and good but still doesn't explain why we should be using 1/125 all the time.

Why not 1/160 or 1/180 for instance ?

bazz.

Prof_Fate

04/13/2006 11:06:45 AM · #24

Originally posted by sir_bazz:

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Well...lots of reasons, all from books, Canon's l;iterature, teachers...

That info is all well and good but still doesn't explain why we should be using 1/125 all the time.

Why not 1/160 or 1/180 for instance ?

bazz.

Did you miss what i posted, or perhaps i was not clear.
too fast a shutter speed means you may not capture all the light the strobes put out.
The total time from when you hit the shutter button till then end of the strobe flash can be longer than the shutter open time. you are therefore risking underexposing the image. You may have a PC cord to the first flash, but most likely the others are optically synced - it takes time for this all to happen.

Too slow and you may get color shifts from room lights or modeling lights, or perhaps even motion blur from the subject or camera shake.

I/m not making this number up - Canon, Norman, Stellar, Nikon all seem to agree in the lit i've read over the years.