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04/01/2006 08:16:55 AM · #1 |
I keep seeing people say that they got hit by the "troll" during voting.
So - what makes a troll ? It seems that any vote lower than what the photographer thinks they deserve is considered a "troll" vote, but that doesn't make sense to me.
On any other board I've ever been on - a "troll" is a poster who typically posts highly controversial subjects, picks fights, etc - just seems to deliberately stir up trouble.
In this case - anonymous voting does not fit the bill.
What am I missing ?
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04/01/2006 08:36:33 AM · #2 |
What are you missing? Not much! Basically, there are indeed a VERY few voters who vote way outside the "norm," for instance, giving a large percentage of 1s. These are referred to as "troll voters." although the term is usually referred for very low voters. No one asks "why so many 10s?"
Folks often assume that because they're getting ones, there must be a pack of troll voters about, when in fact the 1s (and the 10s as well, LOL) are just part of the expected statistical distribution of votes.
FWIW, those who DO bote in a disruptive manner have their votes ignored. A very few low-ball votes do slip through, but they're not to be worried about.
In short, troll voters are, in large part, a myth with just a grain of truth.
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04/01/2006 08:49:08 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
What are you missing? Not much! ... In short, troll voters are, in large part, a myth with just a grain of truth. |
Kashi... Don't you listen to him... Trolls are REAL! Just watch your scores plummet during any challenge. It is awful. You really think your pictures could possibly deserve as low a score as they get? No, of course not! That is impossible! It could only happen if there are trolls!
There you go... proof positive trolls exist!
Trolls are tiny, ugly little people that live under bridges and always vote 1s.
Note: This message paid for by "The Committee for a Troll Free DPC". CTFDPC (which isn't even clever) is a non-profit corporation covered under the soverign laws of the state of Notrollandia!
Message edited by author 2006-04-01 08:59:44.
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04/01/2006 08:53:15 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
No one asks "why so many 10s?" |
I think these voters should be termed "Chum" voters, trying to bring the big votes to the surface.
Originally posted by kirbic:
a myth with just a grain of truth. |
It's no myth!!! Why else would anyone vote my supercreationworldchanging photo below a 9?!?! |
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04/01/2006 09:01:22 AM · #5 |
for instance.... this Blue Ribbon Photo has one troll vote...
it was given a 1 by someone ...
now whether that person doesnt understand that a 1 is the worst... not the best... is to be determined.. but its a troll vote
Message edited by author 2006-04-01 09:01:50. |
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04/01/2006 09:25:21 AM · #6 |
There is a never ending battle to root out and destroy trolls here at DPC. Some have compared it to Vietnam War tracking of the Viet Cong(VC).
Because of their steadfast refusal to acknowledge their existence and their claims that computer monitoring prevents troll voting, suspicion has occcasionally fallen on Site Council itself as the real source of trolls. That would be insidious, but would explain a lot.
But not to worry... The NSA is on top of it. President Bush himself authorized wiretaps, without warrants, on the phones of all Site Council members living in the United States. The truth will be known!
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04/01/2006 09:45:40 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
But not to worry... The NSA is on top of it. President Bush himself authorized wiretaps, without warrants, on the phones of all Site Council members living in the United States. The truth will be known! |
It only gets really annoying when the NSA guy and the FBI guy start arguing over who forgot to start the tape recorder ... |
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04/01/2006 10:00:37 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
It only gets really annoying when the NSA guy and the FBI guy start arguing over who forgot to start the tape recorder ... |
Hasn't anyone figured out that maybe the government itself is the source of the '1's?
I mean, come on, who else would get pleasure from watching the average person go through such agony but the government! Hell, look at the income tax and the IRS. Why does the government have to take money from our hard earned income when they can easily create a federal sales tax instead?
It's because they enjoy watching agony of the worker opening up their paycheck.
The same with DPC. The same differance. The same agony.
Troll....I think you are over simplifying things and should really be looking at what government branch is really behind the '1' factor.
Message edited by author 2006-04-01 10:01:56.
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04/01/2006 10:12:58 AM · #9 |
| Or maybe it's some gov't sponsored experiment. You know how they are always doing those weird experiments on unsuspecting civilians. They pay d/l to provide the update button and it was probably them that "leaked" the formula to check what score the last voter gave you. They tabulate each time you post to a forum stating that the last voter gave you a 1. |
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04/01/2006 10:48:19 AM · #10 |
I read "The Catcher in the Rye" and had an overwhelming urge to vote every entry "1".
Help. Me. |
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04/01/2006 11:50:27 AM · #11 |
sorry, my thoughts on trolls
IMO, Trolls are not born, they are created. If you follow the forums long enough and might get to witness it for yourself.
From time to time an individual will speak up out of frustration, usually with a bad choice of wording and usually about a particular style or genre of photography.
The DPC Posse will immediatley take turns criticizing, poking fun of and attacking the individual in the thread. Usually the posse can sucessfully get an individual to leave DPC in the first two pages of a thread. They will carry on and joke about it for days and weeks after the fact.
Do they (the fun group) really believe that individual has left the site...that's hard to say, but I'm guessing it would be pretty easy to sit back here in the shadows and attack the group to get back at the mob the poked fun of them.
Troll Votes on Winning Images:
As for the shot that DI posted below... It is an excellent shot, had I voted I would have given it high marks.
However, remember there are those here that do not condone certain techniques and tools. They will say so in the forums, and they will even go on to state they will give a vote of 1. The use of NeatImage to smooth a shot is a fine example. The one on this shot could very well be a person that does not like the use of noise reduction software to the point that it appears unreal.
Finally we all fabricate our own trolls in our own minds as a self defense mechanism to justify those 1, 2 and 3 votes we receive. After all every shot we enter is the best shot that we ever took and we love it so much, how could someone give us 1.
Just my thoughts... I believe the are those that give out 1s out of spite, some because they don't beleive in the technique and others that believe they are helping their own shots placement by giving lower scores. It's all human nature.
ED: Typos
Message edited by author 2006-04-01 11:52:41.
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04/01/2006 12:14:39 PM · #12 |
| A troll voter (IMO) is one that maliciously votes low on images he believes to be of above average quality. This as opposed to the voter that awards a low vote simply because he is too stupid to look beyond his prejudices about the subject of the image. |
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04/01/2006 12:19:33 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by ElGordo:
A troll voter (IMO) is one that maliciously votes low on images he believes to be of above average quality. This as opposed to the voter that awards a low vote simply because he is too stupid to look beyond his prejudices about the subject of the image. |
Nah, you have that all wrong: "troll" voters use boats and drag lures behind them. Whenever they hook an image it deflates, and deflated images look like hell, so he scores it a 1... :-)
Robt.
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04/01/2006 12:22:14 PM · #14 |
wanna example from fresh challenge ? here are 2 comments on my submitted challenege ....
"snapshot"
"you spelled ***** wrong..."
and nothing else besides that :-/ from them ...
this are trolls in my opinion, and they comments will not get a checkbox tick for sure :>
get the idea ?
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04/01/2006 12:23:21 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by ElGordo:
A troll voter (IMO) is one that maliciously votes low on images he believes to be of above average quality. This as opposed to the voter that awards a low vote simply because he is too stupid to look beyond his prejudices about the subject of the image. |
I don't think it is stupidity. Maliciousness maybe.
I think the viewer that relates their experience within the voting process and gives '1's is the uneducated viewer. They are not stupid, just uninformed.
A person that lives in the backwoods, in a trailer, with an education of a 7th grader, that got a p&s for xmas may consider Picasso as a joke, and velvet card playing dogs as genius.
On the other hand, a person that has access to museums, and has a college degree will probly interpret the velvet card playing dogs as a gag gift, and Picasso as the genius.
As an artist, biting lips, ignoring ignorance, and praising the truly educated are what we must do.
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04/01/2006 12:32:46 PM · #16 |
| I bet there would be far fewer trolls if they were required to give a comment with their vote of 1. |
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04/01/2006 12:40:27 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by myra:
I bet there would be far fewer trolls if they were required to give a comment with their vote of 1. |
Usually the images that I vote 1 are so bad they are beyond comment. Some, I wish I could vote 0.
Why not just require all votes to have comments?
Message edited by author 2006-04-01 12:41:50. |
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04/01/2006 12:48:37 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Di:
for instance.... this Blue Ribbon Photo has one troll vote...
it was given a 1 by someone ...
now whether that person doesnt understand that a 1 is the worst... not the best... is to be determined.. but its a troll vote |
My guess is the lone one vote here was from someone who has a bone to pick with the Brits. Can you imagine how many one votes there would have been if it were an image of like quality of the US Flag or US Capitol? |
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04/01/2006 12:59:22 PM · #19 |
| I don't think I have ever had an Image not get at least one 1. But I think it comes down to human nature, some people just feel to vote a 1 on an image just because its better than theirs, or they just found something not to like about the image. It all evens out in the end, but I still would like to know why the 1 was given... |
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04/01/2006 01:45:24 PM · #20 |
Well, I must a troll then.
I haven't entered any challenge since I started, not sure if I will. I've voted on only 2 or 3 challenges.
One of those though, I did vote a 1. And it was a gorgeous shot, I added it to my favorites even as I voted a 1.
I'm not stupid by any stretch of the imagination, nor am I uninformed. The image, as far as I was concerned did not meet the challenge, even if absolutely breathtaking. No, it was not the shot Di showed, I didn't vote that challenge.
Responses like I've seen here are why I don't enter and I don't participate in the forums much anymore.
As far as making comments mandatory for low votes - why? Just to give more fodder to the masses that come down on people who vote to begin with?
*just shakes my head*
Message edited by author 2006-04-01 13:46:24. |
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04/01/2006 02:52:49 PM · #21 |
Trolls exist because so do fairies. Fairies are the ones that dish out 10s like it's going out of style. Without either the world would explode. :P
Look, sometimes a photo is going to have a very strong reaction one way or the other and as such you get these extreme voting methods on both ends of the scale. Of course we only complain about it when it's 1s and not 10s being received.
In addition to that we're also competiting against each other and as long as this site allows you to vote in challenges where you have a horse in the race you're ALWAYS going to have deliberate attempts to hurt competitors or get HELP from friends. People cheat in all different ways and not just in the voting. That's just life. |
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04/04/2006 10:41:31 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by myra:
I bet there would be far fewer trolls if they were required to give a comment with their vote of 1. |
i've said it before, but i try to comment on the pics i give low votes to first. why give a low score if not to help the person improve? i've yet to give a 1. i figure 5 meets the challenge with a decent pic but nothing wow, 9 is almost perfect, 10 is almost unattainable. below 5? focus, exposure, composition problems.
1 is just mean.
Originally posted by Skyarcher:
As far as making comments mandatory for low votes - why? Just to give more fodder to the masses that come down on people who vote to begin with? |
as i said above, surely a great deal of this is to help people improve? comments are the only way to help people get better. and, yes, i mean constructive criticism - the like this commetns are nice, but don't give much insight into how one can improve. or am i being naive?
edit 'cause typing sucks.
Message edited by author 2006-04-04 22:46:41.
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04/04/2006 11:57:18 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by xianart:
1 is just mean.
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I understand what you are saying. If you take a "1" to mean "terrible" on some absolute scale, then giving someone a "1" is really a harsh judgment about their work.
The result of our votes is a rank order of all the entries. Someone gets first place and someone gets last place. I'm sure the bottom ten people feel really bad about it but the consequence of giving a rank order is that there will ALWAYS be a bottom ten.
I give 1's on almost every challenge. All I mean when I give a 1 is that the image is at the bottom of my own personal rank order. I certainly understand that others may see a lot more value in the images that I rank at the bottom. We are a diverse group of photographers (one of our strengths) and many pictures receive votes all the way from 1 to 10.
When someone gives a 1, what it really means is that their way of seeing is quite different from the photographer. My experience, both as a giver of comments and as a recipient, is that comments from someone giving a 1 are not useful. The gulf between the aesthetic views is too wide. It would be a serious mistake to try to adopt the views of someone who sees the world very differently than you do; it is better to get help from someone who sees the world in a similar fashion and who can help you express this view in your photographs.
Let me give a concrete example:
This picture got five 1's and two 10's. I liked it and gave it an 8. I understood what you were trying to say about the comfort a sitting in front of a fire on a cold evening and I might be able to give you suggestions about how to express your ideas in a more compelling image. I don't know why some people gave this 1's; maybe they live in Florida and don't know about the comforts of a fire on a cold evening. In any case, I think it is unlikely that comments from them would be helpful.
I'm totally against requiring comments with votes of 1. I also feel that people should not be so upset about receiving 1's on their photos.
--DanW
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04/05/2006 12:18:05 AM · #24 |
| "If someone from outside of america giving someone 1s, we want to know why" - GW Bush about NSA wiretap program |
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04/05/2006 12:19:12 AM · #25 |
| "we only vote 9, 1, 1" - al kaeda |
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