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03/25/2006 08:02:30 AM · #1 |
here are some answers/comments to issues raised in the other wedding book thread.
lighting setup i have a 580ex speedlight with a lightsphere II. simple as that. no alien bees, no umbrellas, no reflectors, no flash bracket, no slaves, nada. i do use a brogen 3022 with a manfroto 488rc ball head, though. not to say that i won't reseach and consider some additional lighting tools, but for now, i'm getting the job done travelling fairly lightly.
fotofusion yes, there are some people who have complaints about this software, but i'm not one of them. i'll agree that it's not perfect, but this is one tool where the good it does so far outweighs the nits that i don't really care. for me, the bottom line is this: fotofusion rocks!!!
here's the link: //www.lumapix.com i recommend the Pro version. it's only $90, and it's worth it. some people might need the studio version, but i'm not one of them.
also, the free trial is the full product! go on and download it and play with it. if you like it, you get an unlock key--you don't have to download something different.
mypublisher i haven't used them before, but a friend of mine, linda hall, has done 6 or 7 books with them, and has been fairly satisfied. the book she showed me was decent enough for me to feel that they would be a safe bet...however...
their software absolutely sucks, and back page thing sucks, and their one-size-fits-all approach sucks, that damn cheesy window on the cover sucks, their title page format sucks, and the lack of a contact telephone number really sucks. but, on the other hand, their prices are decent and their quality is high. they will do for now, but this is one thing i'm really going to be researching. in the meantime, here's their link: MyPublisher.com
one caveat about mypublisher make sure you read the HELP section before starting!!! it tells you almost everything you need to know about laying out your book.
one tip about mypublisher i'll reiterate what david posted: never use any online layout templates! always compile your page layouts into a single jpg. it's the difference between serving up fast-food, or serving a gourmet 12-course meal.
Some WORKFLOW Tips
image organization sometimes, this is really straight forward, sometimes, it is a serious headache. basically, i created a project folder with all my source images in a subfolder. then i created a production-book subfolder and a final-book subfolder. under the production-book folder, i created subfolders for chapters, and under those i created subfolders for pages, naming each folder "project-name"-page-xxx. i also create a subfolder under the final-book folder called "for-web", and put a subfolder in it called "thumbnails". once all the folders are in place, i starting going through the source images and sorting them into pages. yes, this can be tedious, time-consuming, and frustrating, but it's what you do if you want something that looks like what i did.
photoshop tips in photoshop, i have a blank page that is 11.33 x 8.5 with 1/4 inch guides all the way around, along with centered vertical and horizontal guides that create a cross-hair on the center of the page. i can either drop in my rendered jpg from fotofusion, or i can drop in images as individual layers that i can move around. i drop one of these into each page folder and rename it to the folder name, retaining its .psd extension.
i also recorded an action that i run against my pages that saves them as jpgs to the final-book folder, then sizes them down to 72dpi 640px and saves them to the final-book/for-web folder, then crops a 100px-square thumbnail out and saves that as a jpg to the thumbnails folder, and lastly closes without saving the page's image file.
hope this helps, feel free to post here or pm me if you have any other comments or questions!
cheers,
skip
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03/25/2006 09:07:32 AM · #2 |
The 100px crop for the thumbnail explains something - i don't like it though, sorry. Most of the thumbnails are just white squares - not intuitive at all, so what's the point of showing a thumbnail if it shows nothing?
I agree with you on Fotofusion. Excellent stuff. The $90 version is plenty. Once you learn one or two of it's quirks, it can be quite fast to use. It can save web size as well - skipping your PS step. I rarely run any pages thru PS.
My workflow is to process teh RAW files into JPGs in canon's DPP. I then sort those into folder by part of the wedding (prep, procession, ceremony, recession, formals, onsite formals, reception, cake cutting, etc) - then when i have FotoFusion open i can drag only the files i need for that page or 'chapter' into the gallery and wrok with them only. I then save the final page as 0001.jpg (etc) to a 'final book' and a'web book' subdirectories.
as to albums...i have not tried winkflash.com's new book - similar ot mypblisher but no cheesy window and even cheaper LOL The MP linen books i think look better than the leather ones.
My last album was an 8x8 from
Apollo Photo Imagizing which farms out their books to life photo - each has slightly different pricing/options. Drawback is they want 300DPI files (everyone else takes 180) so an 8x8 page wants a 2400x2400 image, a 20x20 needs 3000x3000 - if you want a full bleed pic you're gonna have to interpolate it unless you got a 1Ds! MUCH nicer covers, and you can do dust jackets. Mine cost $68 - 24 pages or so (i forget) and the dust jacket. Very nice quality and the dust jacket it very cool, but 8x8 seems a tad small. they have other sizes.
Asukabook is probably the nicest of this type of book - a but more costly than Illuma up to 4 times as much, depending on options (book size, type, cover, page count, etc), and they have lots of them. Gotta be a pro in their eyes to get the books.
One album i want to offer brides is a more traditional art leather iMount - basically you 'glue' 8x8 or 10x10 prints to the pages - the books are $70-120 plus prints ($2/page) so the price is comparable to the more likely Asuka options, and this makes a 'fat' album that seems more impressive to hold. You can still use fotofusion to make the layouts.
Cornerstone is another option, these are giclee process and about the same price as the higher end Asuka books. Looks like 2 page spreads are easier to do in these books.
One thing to remember - how the customer percevies you is more than using proper english or dressing nicely - give them a crappy album or deliver your product in a walmart bag and you come across as low end. Of course i can't find it now, but you can get nice boxes for $3 or $4 to hols the album and another for the prints. wrap it in some tissue paper and suddenly you look high end for next to nothing. The more value the customer perceives, the more they'll recomend you.
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03/25/2006 10:47:06 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
One thing to remember - how the customer percevies you is more than using proper english or dressing nicely - give them a crappy album or deliver your product in a walmart bag and you come across as low end. Of course i can't find it now, but you can get nice boxes for $3 or $4 to hols the album and another for the prints. wrap it in some tissue paper and suddenly you look high end for next to nothing. The more value the customer perceives, the more they'll recomend you. |
You hit the nail on the head there...presentation is EVERYTHING! I usually wrap mine in a tissue paper and lovely expensive ribbons that match what the wedding colors were.
I've been searching everywhere for some lovely boxes for the myPub books, but if I start using Asuka, their presentation looks perfect.
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03/25/2006 10:51:08 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by lhall:
I've been searching everywhere for some lovely boxes for the myPub books, but if I start using Asuka, their presentation looks perfect. |
I like what I see with Asuka (haven't actually tried them yet). I just think the prices for their books are out of the league of the couples I'm shooting. I'd probably have to give the book away at no profit for me in order for the couples to be able to afford them. Maybe someday when I hook up with a rich client. :-) |
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03/25/2006 11:07:58 AM · #5 |
I understand what you mean about the affordability.
I offer the Asuka book as part of a high-end package. The couples I have as clients so far like the package that includes the myPub book. I know that I will eventually come across some who will want something better, so I am in the process of ordering a book as a portfolio from Asuka so that I have an example to show clients. If it's as nice as it looks, it may sell itself. |
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03/26/2006 08:39:25 AM · #6 |
You people need a new definition of high end LOL
//www.wgbooks.com/home.html - starting at $950
One thread on another forum a wedding pro suggested to a noob to get 3 or 4 sample albums, and he made specfic suggestions - $400 to 700 each!
Or any of hte traditional books with mats and leather covers - the covers (TAP for example)are $40. THen you have insert pages and mats- about $3 an dof course prints (2 per 'page' so $4 lets say) - 15 page/30 side album is $175. go Art Leather and that go up to $300 real easy. PLUS your labor to assemble them.
I am low end - $850/1200/2000. Most of my competetion, as in the 'normal' price is 2000/3500/5000.
How cheap are you (or your clients)? Are you getting enough money to stay in business? (cover your labor, overhead (utlities, rent, phone, etc), advertising, old equipment wear and tear, new equipment acquisistion, etc) You have to make enough to grow your business - kevin on here is spending something like $600/month on advertsising alone! ON the one forum a poll asked mow many bodies do you take to a wedding - the average was 4 And they ain't rebels. Most carried D1 or 1D bodies - so $15,000 in bodies alone!
if they won't pay more is it becuase the can't or won't or you just didn't ask? it they won't it's because they don't think you're worth it.
The difference between an avg MyPublisher and an avg Asuka is about $100 - which as part of a $800 package is a lot, but as part of a $1500 package is not much. Since my time to shoot and process does not change, what else can i do to increase the value of my higher packages but to up the album quality?
You gotta show it to sel it! If you have them as samples, and yes I know it costs money (i'll be buying an iMount and Asuka book in the next 2 weeks for samples so what, $200-300 out of pocket?) - show the biggest and best one first, then work your way down. The labot to create a diigital album is the same regardless of how it's printed - so include a mypublisher as you standard album, but offer an 10x10 illuma for $150 mroe (your cost is $30 maybe) and an Asuka or iMount for $300 more. Sell one and you got your costs back, sell 2 and you're in the money!
Also, when you show them prints, get a large formal pose (small heads one) and show it as 16x20, then a 10x13 (and leave them on the table) and then an 8x10 - the 8x10 seems soooo small...so they buy the bigger prints and you make more money!
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03/26/2006 08:53:31 AM · #7 |
GraphiStudio is a very popular brand of albums among some pros - i don't know price, yet. Since it's italian, and i think imported, i bet it's not cheap ;)
to learn about wedding stuff the best DVDs are at //www.photovisionvideo.com . they have one on album layout and design by jeff hawkis i hear is good. I got a sampler from them that had bits with 3 or 4 wedding photogs at work - you see them working, the shots they take, etc. WOW. A real eye opener. I may get the whole DVD of them and watch it the night before i shoot a wedding as a reminder of how to 'direct and choreograph' (not pose.
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03/31/2006 02:10:17 AM · #8 |
so do most people use fotofusion with all the different styles of books?
All I have offered to wedding couples so far is the art leather books with their matted pages where you just stick the photos in you want. However an actually book with paper pages is something that I think quite a few people want, so I am looking to start doing this as well.
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03/31/2006 05:36:15 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by leaf:
so do most people use fotofusion with all the different styles of books? |
yes! it is a tool that makes collaging extremely simple and fast. it automates what you would do by hand in photoshop. i think most people doing books use a combination of ps & ff. you can see some really great examples in this thread
Originally posted by leaf:
...However an actually book with paper pages is something that I think quite a few people want, so I am looking to start doing this as well. |
you are quite right! when shown the option of having 40 8x10s or 40 pages of a hardback, glossy, coffee-table book that is filled with 100-150 photos, they tend to opt for the latter...
Message edited by author 2006-03-31 05:36:30. |
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03/31/2006 08:09:28 AM · #10 |
| Hey does anyone have any ideas on who does nice wedding books her in Australia? |
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03/31/2006 08:11:01 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by Leok:
Hey does anyone have any ideas on who does nice wedding books her in Australia? |
Now that is what I want to know also.
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03/31/2006 08:44:12 AM · #12 |
After having spent a week at school with 175+ pros...and vendors...I got to see and touch things, talk to labs, printers...here is what i found..
You can do ArtLeather iMount 10x10 books for under $100, with 10 sides/30 prints. Assumbled and delivered. You design it like you do now, FTP them up, they will coor correct (MyPublisher and Illuma definitely DO NOT) - see www.filmet.com and they will GIVE YOU FOR FREE Fotofusion! They are a lumapix lab - you do a collage in fotocusion of 10 pics on a page - and they will color correct EACH IMAGE - do that in PS and you have to flatten it - and then they can only CC the WHOLE image.
AND their so basic (no CC) 8x10s go for $1. AND FREE SHIPPING! that is 1/2 the price of anyone else. and you get teh ROES software for uploading/ordering.
I think they quoted me $85 for a 10 page/20 side iMount, assembled with prints. they also do a Cache album - a bit fancier about $30 more. These have the prints as the pages, a cardbourd type thickness. All these are ACTUAL PRINTS so they will last 100 years (according to Kodak). THe Illuma and MyPub books are fancy inkjet and well, who knows?
Message edited by author 2006-03-31 08:45:22.
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03/31/2006 09:50:57 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
All these are ACTUAL PRINTS so they will last 100 years (according to Kodak). THe Illuma and MyPub books are fancy inkjet and well, who knows? |
Same 'who knows?' on both cases. Kodak haven't actually had any of those prints from that chemistry around for 100 years either to prove it. Both processes are tested in accelerated fade tests. The only thing I know for a fact is that Kodak's prints used to fade pretty badly from 30 years ago ;)
Message edited by author 2006-03-31 09:51:12. |
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03/31/2006 09:53:29 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by Judi:
Originally posted by Leok:
Hey does anyone have any ideas on who does nice wedding books her in Australia? |
Now that is what I want to know also. |
You could try Digital DaVinci in Adelaide. I toured their offices a few weeks ago - they do some really nice work.
Digital DaVinci
About the same level of quality as the mypublisher books.
Message edited by author 2006-03-31 09:54:28. |
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03/31/2006 06:23:10 PM · #15 |
Another Oz enquiry : Does anyone have any expeience with momento: //www.momento.com.au
You can download their software free or buy it on CD from Harvey Norman for $10 but there is a voucher inside that gives you $30 off. Looks OK on the web, but has anyone seen a book in real life?
Their standard delivey time is 21 days. If I read it correctly, a 10 day service costs double...
edit - make link clickable
Message edited by author 2006-03-31 20:35:44. |
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04/02/2006 06:16:07 AM · #16 |
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