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03/24/2006 02:23:36 AM · #51 |
I just skimmed the thread. It has been suggested (many times) and it always plays out the same way. Forcing people to do things is generally a bad idea, IMO.
On a positive note, I like that you included the code! :) |
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03/24/2006 02:38:58 AM · #52 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I just skimmed the thread. It has been suggested (many times) and it always plays out the same way. Forcing people to do things is generally a bad idea, IMO.
On a positive note, I like that you included the code! :) |
ROFLMAO
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03/31/2006 10:15:35 AM · #53 |
I don't know about this - a true 1 vote would have a subjective comment anyway. "This is an aweful picture." And it's not always going to be nuts and bolts about the exposure, dof. Some truely bad images are just poor taste in composition or subject matter.
Even if you require comments on ones, then you'll get 2's. What then? Require comments on twos? It'll just be a chain reaction until comments are required on all votes and people aren't going to vote, or not vote on all images except a minimum 20% which they'll weed out. And some images won't get voted on. What then? Require a comment on why you didn't vote?
It's a vicious cycle. One thing that could be done, and this is off the top of my head with little though into it: Generally the undeserving ones come from the same peeps, possibly. The ranking calculation can have an additional component to it to consider:
1. How many 1's, 2's, 3's the VOTER gives out.
1.a Conversly you have to conside the 10's, 9's 8's the VOTER gives also if you take this route - it will help balance the equation.
2. The average score the VOTER gives.
3. The percentage of photographs the VOTER votes on in the present challenge.
and consider it (one or more) in the photograph score.
With these equation components I guess the idea would be to compare to the average. I beleive the average photograph has an average score of 5.5 is it? Compare the voters vote to his average vote for the challenge (or his/her site average vote) and balance the extremes.
This would allow the 1s, 2s, 3s, 10s, 9s, 8s to mean something from well rounded voters and it will even out the odd ball voters who vote 1s 2s 3s 10s 9s 8s more than they should. (or what ever figures are considered)
-Rick
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03/31/2006 12:03:04 PM · #54 |
Low Key was my third challenge and last for awhile.
It was somewhat confusing and a little disappointing.
13th Place yet nine voters felt this image was worthy of a 1.
116 voters out of 221 felt it was worthy of a 7 or higher.
Only 5 images in the twelve that finished above mine had votes of 1 (the most was 2 votes).
Clearly the punitive voting on the content (nudity) skewed the results because the voter viewed the image from some moral high ground. The votes were not based on artistic or technical aspects of the image. Check out all the comments that felt this image was a clear favorite. Almost every comment was complete and constructive.
Maybe requiring a comment would have turned some 1's to 2's and my photo would have at least placed in the top 10. I'm told I need to have thick skin to participate in challenges on this site. Maybe the same should be required by the voters. I support the idea of 1 (and 2 and 3) votes requiring at least a comment to count. I know it will never happen but a system that allows punitive voting on images that have superior artistic and technical merit does not seem fair(IMO).
edit for spelling
Message edited by author 2006-03-31 12:05:04. |
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03/31/2006 12:57:56 PM · #55 |
"Artistic merit" is a completely subjective term; people may disagree with your assessment of this quality on any particular photo.
How about starting a rant about the "undeserved" tens which some photos get? Aren't those as outrageous a misapplication of esthetic judgement as a one on a ribbon-winner?
For that matter, if you voted a ribbon-winner a nine, shouldn't everyone who votes an eight or lower have to justify their vote? No? Seven and below? Six? Five? Where do you draw the line (and with what justification)?
This site allows the use of the full voting scale, and allows people to apply whatever criteria they want to determine if a photo is "good" or "bad" with the exception of engaging in certain patterns of voting, in which case their votes will be discarded. |
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03/31/2006 01:19:20 PM · #56 |
So who's vote counts and in what way, or what votes count?
My score was a 6, I left no comment. My score wasn't based anything to do with techniques, exposure, subject matter, artistic or technical matters.
I just didn't think the photograph was a 10, 9, 8, or 7
If you'd take all the 1's or 2's and make the minimum vote a 3 then you'd still would have placed 13th.
You'd have a score of 6.511, 12th = 6.587 and 11th = 6.591.
Are you thinking that the people who voted 1s & 2s targetted you, I think they voted for everyone (if not, enough of the 1 voters touched each photograph), then why did the ribbon get 0 1s or 2s? The 13 people that voted 1/2 for you thought it was worth a 1 or a 2.
I know that sounds like I'm attacking you and I'm sorry, it's not my intention.
I do think that SOME people MAY vote 1s 2s out of spite, just for fun, or whatever. But I know, FOR A FACT that there are people voting 1s or 2s as a REAL vote.
Now, your photograph stood on it's merits and came out with a very respectable placing, despite my 6 or 13 1s/2s.
You can't discount a vote because you like it. You have to count it somehow. My idea above is to find the voters who tend to vote low and while still considering their vote, sort of handicap the challenge.
Handicap is the wrong term, it's more like smoothing the curves. They are still there on a graph, just smoother.
-Rick |
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03/31/2006 01:23:31 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
How about starting a rant about the "undeserved" tens which some photos get? Aren't those as outrageous a misapplication of esthetic judgement as a one on a ribbon-winner? |
Absolutely, deviation from the collective average for the competition, or as a general rule of thumb, either to the 1s or 10s can be accounted for in a simple calculation. Well, more complex than a basic average, but little more than that.
This is getting to be a thought experiment more and more for me, but I think this idea has merit.
-Rick |
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03/31/2006 01:45:17 PM · #58 |
I think we should require comments for only odd numbered votes - obviously the comments need to be an even number of words. Again, these rules are only valid on days with a Y in them :-))
Let people vote how they like unless there is a clear case of fixing or something (appears there is something in place from other conversations). The scale goes from 1 to 10, so they are all valid numbers. |
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03/31/2006 02:00:47 PM · #59 |
Do you guys think it's more important to vote on every image, or to comment on as many as possible? I've been trying to just get through voting on all the entries, and then going back for comments.. but honestly I'm so afraid of upsetting someone if I leave a negative comment, that I end up mostly commenting on the 5-10 votes I've given..
I'm one of those super non-confrontational people. I'd rather say nothing or try to make someone smile than risk upsetting someone. :/
I wouldn't want any sort of mandatory comment thing unless it could be and remain anonymous.. |
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