| Author | Thread |
|
|
03/15/2006 02:59:51 PM · #1 |
Lots of threads are started with the question "Which dSLR should i get" and the answers are pretty predictable - "get the one I got". that's understandable, as most of us do some research to make a $1000 decision, and rarely dones anyone admit making a mistake about it.
Often it is suggested 'get what feels good in your hands'. Well, a mustang convertible feels pretty darned nice in my hands, but won't do what i need done, so that suggestions is just wrong. It's a suggestion to buy on first impressions, nothing more.
Many times teh advice is more centered on teh 'system' rather than a specific camera, and that is good advice. And here is why.
You're moving up to dSLR for one of three reasons - ego, you've outgrown your current camera as your skills have increased, you have a specific need/reason for a SLR.
Ego: Buy whatever your ego wants. Logic matters not in cases like this - you want to outdo the Joneses, brag to your friends etc, I can't help you.
Specific Need/Reason: You've got a job as a photographer for National Geographic and need a 600mm lens to go to africa with, or you're desperately in love with bugs and need a macro lens to die for, or all the stock agencies want 48Mb files with no noise - if you can define the job then picking the right tool is pretty easy.
You're Growing as a phtographer and are limited by your equipment! Great - this is the main reason DPC'rs move to a dSLR. Your skills have exceeded what you can do with a p&s, it's limitations are driving you nuts, you want to be able to do more types of shots, perhaps make a little money on the side, that type of thing.
OK, so what camera is best? I can tell you a brand or a specific body, but that won't help you anymore than the 1000s of threads before this one. You have to ask yourslef a few questions, and then you'll have an idea of what 'system' is right for you. Money does not matter, believe it or not. Pick the wrong camera for cost reasons and you'll be unhappy and have to sell that one and buy another - this'll cost more in the end than buying the right one in the beginning.
You obviously need more something than your current camera, so you are still growing as a photographer, right?
So with the purchase of a dSLR are you done growing or do you think you'll learn and try new things?
Will your skills continue to improve?
Will you change what subjects you shoot?
Can you tell the difference between a good shot and a bad shot, technically speaking? Think you ever will?
Know the difference between a sharp lens, lens color, focusing speed? If not, do you think you ever will learn the difference?
take those answers and see how they apply to the camera system you favor.
Does the system offer all the lens choices to fit your future needs/interests? If you take up wildlife, sports, low light, macro or decide architecture is your thing, can you get a lens for that? If not, then you have limited yourself, limited your growth, creativity and photography.
Didn't you want a dSLR because you were limited with your p&s? Why choose another dead end if there are other options out there?
|
|
|
|
03/15/2006 03:20:58 PM · #2 |
So all that means to buy a Nikon, right?
LOL!
|
|
|
|
03/15/2006 03:21:44 PM · #3 |
Ok. Only kidding.
Good advice.
|
|
|
|
03/15/2006 03:41:54 PM · #4 |
dSLR bodies = Expense
dSLR lens = Investment
Each manufacturer continues to release newer and better bodies every few months. TodayĆ¢s best to next year's clearance model.
Lens will continue to work well on future bodies. (The Canon 100-400 was release many years ago.)
|
|
|
|
03/15/2006 05:17:21 PM · #5 |
Interesting thread.
I can't help but ask myself does it really matter which system you buy into if your primarily using third party lenses ?
After all, these lenses are made for every mount.
cheers,
bazz. |
|
|
|
03/15/2006 05:38:33 PM · #6 |
I have to disagree on the money part. It does matter a great deal when you are on a limited budget. First of all, as a Realtor I see somewhat of a comparison between house buying and DSLR buying...no matter how much research you do, there will still be some things that you just won't experience or know about your purchase until you've lived with it. Good and bad - expect it.
Also, kind of like a starter home, I think most people understand what they are getting for the money. Just because we can't afford the best neighborhood or a 2000 sq.ft. house to start with doesn't mean we shouldn't buy that starter home and move up when we're able. If I'm going to make a mistake - I'd rather make it with an $800 purchase than with a $2000 purchase. And, again like home buying, you continue to learn more about what you really need and want.
I had an idea of 3 or 4 acceptable dslr bodies and their price ranges when I was shopping for one. Then I set out to find the best deal I could afford...emphasis on the afford!
So I would say money certainly did play a part for me and what I ended up buying. I'm sure it's not that way for everyone, but I'm sure I'm not the only one. |
|
|
|
03/15/2006 05:51:21 PM · #7 |
I think the "system" arguement only works if you have an unlimited budget.
Otherwise it's a just a marketing term.
cheers,
bazz. |
|
|
|
03/15/2006 06:00:13 PM · #8 |
I also think that canon and nikon are so comparable in the lens department, you can't really rule one out for the other.
drake |
|
|
|
03/15/2006 06:01:57 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by sir_bazz:
I can't help but ask myself does it really matter which system you buy into if your primarily using third party lenses ?
After all, these lenses are made for every mount.
bazz. |
look up lenses for canon or nikon, and the Olympus. Any maker of lenses. See any difference?
there was a thread recently where an Oly person wanted a long telephoto - well, there are none. 200mm is tops. Doesn't appear to be any low light large ap lenses either. I didn't see any dedicated macro lenses, no tilt-shift lenses...
K-M mount lenses are more numerous, but still not as many as the two big players.
If you choose a body/entry level kit bases on price alone, you may find out in 6 months you can't get that pic, can't grow beyond what the kit had to offer. And if you do find a lens, it may very well cost a lot more as there is smaller market and fewer used ones to choose from. SOOO, you sell off that brand and move to another - to learn it and start from almost scratch, but having proabably lost money on the transition.
Cameras are not like starter homes - they don't appreciate. Also, my starter home did appreciate 5 grand in 5 years. My current home, whcih i moved up to, has appreciated 70,000 in 6 years, and i have enjoyed a lot more room inside and out, and in a better school district.
So a 300D is a starter camera, you can move up body wise and keep your lenses. Or get a system with less growth, and to move up you may have to get a new body AND new lenses.
Depends on ones needs - not everyone will move up or need more capabilty. I'm only saying that the DPC crowd is not the soccer mom / football dad that will be satisfied with a $600 SLR and $400 in lenses (for very long anyway).
It's this upgrade/growth path that seems to be overlooked by many buyers as not important.
|
|
|
|
03/15/2006 06:04:39 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by fstopopen:
I also think that canon and nikon are so comparable in the lens department, you can't really rule one out for the other.
drake |
nikons got that 10.5 dx fish. /drools.
|
|
|
|
03/15/2006 06:43:15 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
there was a thread recently where an Oly person wanted a long telephoto - well, there are none. 200mm is tops. Doesn't appear to be any low light large ap lenses either. I didn't see any dedicated macro lenses, no tilt-shift lenses... |
really? nothing larger than 200mm? no larg ap lenses hey?
//img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/hbxov/Misc/Other/IMG_0003-01.jpg
Message edited by kirbic - Converted large pic to link :-). |
|
|
|
03/15/2006 06:48:53 PM · #12 |
void
Message edited by author 2006-03-15 18:54:00. |
|
|
|
03/15/2006 07:03:44 PM · #13 |
Alot of people, (yourself as well I notice), choose 3rd party lenses because of cost.
At the long end there's the Sigma Bigma which is available for every lens mount if you really want long as well as cheap.
I still say "system" is a just a marketing term at best. The exception would be if your only buying brand new, (no 2nd hand and no 3rd party) equipment. If your happy to buy 2nd hand or third party, then the choices for every make, (except maybe the 4/3's system), is larger than any manufacturers current line-up. Now with that said, if your only looking for new and OEM long glass then really there's only one or two manufacturers to choose from. The thing is, if you can afford this high end pro glass then you can also afford to sell your current "system" and change brands without worrying too much about change over costs.
cheers,
bazz.
Message edited by author 2006-03-15 19:05:22. |
|
|
|
03/15/2006 07:39:46 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
If you choose a body/entry level kit bases on price alone, you may find out in 6 months you can't get that pic, can't grow beyond what the kit had to offer. And if you do find a lens, it may very well cost a lot more as there is smaller market and fewer used ones to choose from. SOOO, you sell off that brand and move to another - to learn it and start from almost scratch, but having proabably lost money on the transition.
Cameras are not like starter homes - they don't appreciate. Also, my starter home did appreciate 5 grand in 5 years. My current home, whcih i moved up to, has appreciated 70,000 in 6 years, and i have enjoyed a lot more room inside and out, and in a better school district.
|
I agree that you wouldn't want to choose on price alone, but that does not mean that money is not a contributing factor.
You make a good point about my analogy re:starter homes, as cameras do not appreciate. My idea was more that I believe that there are similarities in both purchases being a learning process about what I really desire and need in my purchase. Perhaps some people purchase a DSLR with the intent that they will never buy another camera, but I did not make that assumption with my own purchase.
What I do believe is that when I decide to lay out more money for an upgrade or new model I will have a much better grasp of what specifics I will be looking for. I'd hate to have spent $2,000 on a camera and lenses only to find out that I didn't consider some things I should have. For what I have spent, I am very happy with my dSLR purchase. I only speak for myself, and it's my philosophy on the purchase. I'm not saying it's the "right" way to do it, or the only way. I just believe that blanket statements such as "money does not matter" seems unrealistic to most people I know.
However, perhaps regarding your title - just picking a dSLR doesn't hinge on money at all. Buying one however, might have a little something to do with it. :) |
|
|
|
03/15/2006 07:52:46 PM · #15 |
| I keep running into more and people today who have purchased a DSLR, when, really, they should not have. Although excellent p & s cams are widely available at very reasonable cost, they also appear to be stigmatized as toys by so many semi-serious amateurs. |
|
|
|
03/15/2006 08:03:43 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
I keep running into more and people today who have purchased a DSLR, when, really, they should not have. Although excellent p & s cams are widely available at very reasonable cost, they also appear to be stigmatized as toys by so many semi-serious amateurs. |
Good point. I just recomended a Canon S2 to a friend who really was not ready for a DSLR and likely never will need one.
|
|
|
|
03/15/2006 08:16:25 PM · #17 |
| There are various reasons I wish to move up to a DSLR. I used 35MM professionally for years and I miss the options available. Portrait focal length (135MM) is very important to me. The capability to take long exposure night shots without errant pixels is also a priority. Multiple exposure capability is also important. What I can't decide is whether or not I want to settle for 6MP or can I afford 8MP. Can I afford NOT to go 8MP? I know in my heart the camera will pay for itself in six months in any case. |
|
|
|
03/15/2006 08:21:59 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by conceptgraphics:
There are various reasons I wish to move up to a DSLR. I used 35MM professionally for years and I miss the options available. Portrait focal length (135MM) is very important to me. The capability to take long exposure night shots without errant pixels is also a priority. Multiple exposure capability is also important. What I can't decide is whether or not I want to settle for 6MP or can I afford 8MP. Can I afford NOT to go 8MP? I know in my heart the camera will pay for itself in six months in any case. |
The Nikon D200 does multiple exposures in camera and has over 10MP. It should do. But then again it is $1700 for the body.
|
|
|
|
03/16/2006 07:41:40 AM · #19 |
I just had to post this. Not to argue your point pro-fate. But not all of us need all those lenses you've listed. Contrary to what you have posted Olympus does have quite a few lenses.
olympus lenses
|
|
|
|
03/16/2006 07:49:04 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by jpochard:
I have to disagree on the money part. It does matter a great deal when you are on a limited budget. First of all, as a Realtor I see somewhat of a comparison between house buying and DSLR buying...no matter how much research you do, there will still be some things that you just won't experience or know about your purchase until you've lived with it. Good and bad - expect it.
Also, kind of like a starter home, I think most people understand what they are getting for the money. Just because we can't afford the best neighborhood or a 2000 sq.ft. house to start with doesn't mean we shouldn't buy that starter home and move up when we're able. If I'm going to make a mistake - I'd rather make it with an $800 purchase than with a $2000 purchase. And, again like home buying, you continue to learn more about what you really need and want.
I had an idea of 3 or 4 acceptable dslr bodies and their price ranges when I was shopping for one. Then I set out to find the best deal I could afford...emphasis on the afford!
So I would say money certainly did play a part for me and what I ended up buying. I'm sure it's not that way for everyone, but I'm sure I'm not the only one. |
I knew what I was buying. I didn't just got out one week and buy a camera. I researched and looked at them for over 2 months before deciding. Money was definetly a factor, and I was willing to wait, but thought for me my choice was the best and I have not regretted it for a single picture.
Maybe someday when I don't have a child at home I can spend money on more expensive things, but for me this is perfect. And honestly, looking at a lot of challenge entries from people with other cameras, I really don't see the difference. I've always been told it's not about the camera, it's about the person behind the camera. I think that is very true. |
|
|
|
03/16/2006 08:12:49 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by missinseattle:
Originally posted by jpochard:
I have to disagree on the money part. It does matter a great deal when you are on a limited budget. First of all, as a Realtor I see somewhat of a comparison between house buying and DSLR buying...no matter how much research you do, there will still be some things that you just won't experience or know about your purchase until you've lived with it. Good and bad - expect it.
Also, kind of like a starter home, I think most people understand what they are getting for the money. Just because we can't afford the best neighborhood or a 2000 sq.ft. house to start with doesn't mean we shouldn't buy that starter home and move up when we're able. If I'm going to make a mistake - I'd rather make it with an $800 purchase than with a $2000 purchase. And, again like home buying, you continue to learn more about what you really need and want.
I had an idea of 3 or 4 acceptable dslr bodies and their price ranges when I was shopping for one. Then I set out to find the best deal I could afford...emphasis on the afford!
So I would say money certainly did play a part for me and what I ended up buying. I'm sure it's not that way for everyone, but I'm sure I'm not the only one. |
I knew what I was buying. I didn't just got out one week and buy a camera. I researched and looked at them for over 2 months before deciding. Money was definetly a factor, and I was willing to wait, but thought for me my choice was the best and I have not regretted it for a single picture.
Maybe someday when I don't have a child at home I can spend money on more expensive things, but for me this is perfect. And honestly, looking at a lot of challenge entries from people with other cameras, I really don't see the difference. I've always been told it's not about the camera, it's about the person behind the camera. I think that is very true. |
While it is true that the photographer has a huge bearing on the photograph, images produced with a 2MP camera just are not as good as images from an 8MP camera. I would really like to see someone who has both a low res P&S and a high res DSLR shoot the same setup and post the results to see the quality difference. |
|
|
|
03/16/2006 09:13:59 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by conceptgraphics:
While it is true that the photographer has a huge bearing on the photograph, images produced with a 2MP camera just are not as good as images from an 8MP camera. I would really like to see someone who has both a low res P&S and a high res DSLR shoot the same setup and post the results to see the quality difference. |
Well i realize that. That's a no brainer lol, my 8mp dSLR does produce a higher quality picture then my lil 4mp p&s. |
|
|
|
03/16/2006 09:24:43 AM · #23 |
It's not the camera OR the photographer.... it's the photoshop skill!
:) |
|
|
|
03/16/2006 09:39:49 AM · #24 |
I think Prof is referring not to the overall number of lenses for the Olympus system, but more to the number of lenses that are somewhat affordable. There are VERY few 3rd party offerings in this niche and anything with ZOOM past 200mm is going to cost a FORTUNE!
The only choice is between spending like 6 grand or working with a somewhat slow manual focus 300mm prime. EDIT: this is not the 300mm f/2.8 that I am referring to
Concept. Sent you a PM.
Message edited by author 2006-03-16 10:02:24. |
|
|
|
03/16/2006 09:52:23 AM · #25 |
Start saving now...that 300mm 2.8 is going for a cool $6,999....
|
|
