flash question for the experts...

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

03/10/2006 11:45:18 AM · #1

I want to purchase a flash. I appreciate any input.

I am looking at the canon 430.
is this compatible with the rebel XT?
can i use this flash away from my camera ie. backlighting a subject?

Sorry for the dumb questions, but I am really just learning about flashes and the lingo. I will keep reading, but any input is great.

Ampao64

Canon EOS-30D

03/10/2006 11:49:01 AM · #2

can only answer the first question, and i would say yes.

AlexSaberi

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

03/10/2006 11:49:30 AM · #3

seriously - go for the sigma super dg 500. Much much better than the 430, and the same if not better than the 580 canon. Cheapish build quality, but loads of functionality

petrakka

03/10/2006 11:54:33 AM · #4

yes and yes.

im not how the 430 works though u might have to fire your on camera flash to fire the 430, so complete backlighting might not be possible, but u can turn the power of your on camera down to almost nothing.

03/10/2006 11:56:50 AM · #5

I am more interested in finding about the details in using this away from my camera with a flash trigger.

I am confused because that would make it a slave, and whenever I read about a slave, it always includes a master. For example, when reading about the 430, it said that it can be used as a slave w/ the 580. I don't want to buy 2 units, but I want to be able to use a flash away from the camera

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

03/10/2006 12:06:34 PM · #6

what are the differences between the Sigma DG Super ADI and the Sigma SG ST ADI? other than price.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

03/10/2006 12:34:10 PM · #7

You can fire the 430 remotely with the Canon ST-E2 remote transmitter. You can't, however, use the 430 to fire a remote (unless it has had that feature added. The 420 would not do it so I'm assuming the 430 won't either.)

hopper

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

03/10/2006 12:39:42 PM · #8

John's correct ... the 430ex can be used as a slave, but it cannot trigger a slave.

besides the ST-E2 (which is awesome), you get really long cord, but it requires other parts (listed on the url) and would be more of a hassle than anything.

hopper

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

03/10/2006 12:41:11 PM · #9

Canon ST-E2

awpollard

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

03/10/2006 12:41:36 PM · #10

Reading the specs on this it would appear that it has the same functionallity as my 420ex (the one that the 430ex replaces).

WIRELESS is the key here...

the Speedlite 430EX serves as a wireless slave when either the Speedlite 580EX, Macro Ring Lite MR-14EX, Macro Twin Lite MT-24EX or Speedlite Transmitter ST-E2 is used as a master

03/10/2006 12:44:19 PM · #11

this is what I think i'm going for...

From B&H Photo

Sigma EF500 DG Super ADI $229

Vivitar SL2 remote flash trigger $30

is that a decent set up.

Kaizer

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

03/10/2006 12:52:06 PM · #12

I have the 430, and am happy with it. Little sorry I didn't go with the 580, but at the time was looking to upgrade my canon 35mm to a Rebel XT, with peripherals, including additional lenses and macro ring flash.... so needed to be a little careful on the spend.

eschelar

Canon EOS-7D

03/10/2006 12:56:47 PM · #13

I'll throw my hat in there with alexsaberi on this one. Sigma DG 500 Super. The way to go for flashes, on body and off.

I will also make a mention that there are TWO Sigma DG models. The Super is indeed superior, especially if you want a lot of control and shoot outdoors (a special FP mode allows very fast shutter Sync speeds, faster than the X-sync speed, presumably when working with the hotshoe or if you can find an intelligent wireless hotshoe solution). It's still around the same price as the 430EX and a LOT less than the 580EX.

However, I'll be honest with you, I'm not an expert.

But I will tell you what I know.

I believe that there are a couple of different kinds of transmitters. I think one is IR and the other is some other form of Wireless. This is the area I know least about. I would recommend heading off to your local shop to find out how they work before making any decisions.

A third way to make it work is by using a simple slave flash. This is the type that is triggered by another flash.

I use this method myself with my S2 IS. I was able to do some shooting yesterday morning with the flash sitting unconnected to anything else all by itself on a mini-tripod behind me to light the wall while I shot some moderate light "low light" shots (for mimicking a wider dynamic range on a camera with low DR).

I use a Tumax DS20S2. It cost me like 50 bucks US. It has 5 different slave modes, two of which work with my camera (see more below), but I wasn't able to get good results with it and my friend's 300D after playing with it for only about 3 minutes. I think I could probably work something out, but might have to play more than a brief 3 minutes and might in the end have to go full manual.

This type of flash does indeed work fairly well, but there is something you should know.

All recent Canon cameras use both E-TTL and E-TTL II type flash exposure measurement. I think my S2 even uses one of these or a modified version. I can't say for sure.

This means that before the actual picture is taken, the camera will PRE-flash several times to evaluate the scene. This will throw off your slaves, causing them to fire prematurely. The Sensor is NOT exposed during this time, and the pre-flashes are used by the camera ONLY. If you don't take this into account, you will get dark frames.

There are two fixes or work-arounds (unless you go to a more sophisticated wireless system).

#1 - The Fix. Get a flash that is compatible with your camera's prefiring. My Tumax DS has 5 camera flash profiles. I can use this unit WITH normal modes of my camera and get both properly exposed flash from my on-camera unit and manually controlled off-camera flash as well for whatever reason I may want this for (good for well-exposed foregrounds and lit backgrounds)

My flash also has 3 exposure settings, one is standardized and works according to the chart written on the back of the flash (IE, If your camera is at f/8.0, ISO 50, flash should be 8 ft away from the subject for proper exposure - BEWARE, Canon cameras are OFTEN slightly more sensitive than their ISO equivalent indicates, check www.dpreview.com's review for your camera for the details). The other two settings are THYRISTOR based. This means that you can get a little bit better responsiveness and it behaves in a more intelligent way with more reflective subjects. This is particularly useful if you really want to tame down your flash response for closer subjects. The Thyristor modes are still chart based, so are also very predictable.

#2 The Work-around. This means checking your manual to see how your flash works. I am going to assume that it works pretty close to the way mine does as we both have Canon cameras.

The aforementioned pre-flashes will not occur if you switch to M Mode. (this is true on my camera, but you may need to find someting to turn your E-TTL mode off or something, I don't know yet)

This will allow you the freedom to use your flashes manually, but you now need to set them to all fire on the FIRST pre-fire of your flash. I believe if you have flash exposure lock (I do, I guess you must), when you half-press the shutter, it will fire a single flash (not sure how this translates across modes and it's too late to check into this right now) and you will indeed be able to get an exposure evaluation as this will also trigger any slaves you have. I haven't used this function, so there are probably some details I'm a little wrong on here.

I use this mode when I want to do some creative lighting, such as this shot:

That shot was taken by dropping the on-camera flash manually (via the function menu in shooting mode) to it's lowest setting and it was plenty to trigger the Tumax which was behind me, facing away from the camera (obviously it was able to pick up the light bouncing off the ceiling and wall behind me). The fact that it did this flawlessly around 80 times that morning even though the ambient light was actually pretty bright for a "low light" shooting session.

The lighting on my face did not significantly increase when I added the flash (I did 10 shots for alignment and composition before adding the flash), so this shows that this work-around can be useful in many situations where you don't want the primary flash to show up.

I hope the info helps.

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

03/10/2006 01:32:16 PM · #14

can someone please tell me about vivitar SL2

eschelar

Canon EOS-7D

03/10/2006 01:53:42 PM · #15

I can find very, very little information on it.

Adorama has it listed but has no information on it. Many other links are bad or useless.

I would suspect immediately that it is a low-light flash that allows cameras that have no on board flash to trigger slave flashes that are triggered by flash (the 5D is an example of this).

Seems like a bit of an odd device if you ask me. I can't think of anything that you can do with it that you couldn't do with your on-board flash.

By contrast, there are the IR based devices by Canon which cost more than a couple hundred bucks. YIKES! On the other hand, they have some pretty amazing functionality because IR can transfer information, not just a burst of light.

IR appears to be able to allow you to control more than one group, as well as possibly having the ability to control the output of flashes.

Pretty wild stuff. Costly too.

I understand that a number of studios use just typical basic flash slaves.

I am going to hazard a guess here that regardless of how you work things, you are still going to be needing to spend some time learning how to manually control your flashes.

Can anyone comment on whether or not the 420/430/580 can be controlled without IR?

awpollard

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

03/10/2006 02:13:37 PM · #16

Any thoughts on the Promaster 7500DX states it is e-TTL but doesn't note which flavor.

Looks kind of cool as it has the Main flash and front (fill) flash...

th3ph17

Canon EOS-20D