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02/16/2006 11:04:38 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by princess:
Here lately I've been looking through the thumbnails first to see all the photos, and if I don't think that I could possibly vote on more than half of them, then I won't vote at all. A photo doesn't have to be technically perfect, but I have to really like it, it has to meet the challenge, not just be shoe-horned in by the title, and it will have to say something to me.
Am I to harsh/wanting too much out of a photo? |
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I understand your point and here is how I handle it. I recall a challenge where 70% of the images were below par. Easy to run away from, but then, a lot of effort was invested to produce this many images. I simply feel I owe it to the community to vote on all images. Yes, my comments were on the low end but I always vote because if we all took the attitude that the challenge is visually impaired then I am in effect saying that I have never been there and that all of my images sparkle. What I mean is that the DPC criteria falls apart if we only vote on the minimim or vote only on the challenges we want. Again, look at your stats for votes cast etc. In it you will see if you are a member in good standing with the interest of the community at heart.
Suppose you are not confortable at commenting, fine but at least vote on all images if you expect people to vote on yours. Otherwise you are either too good to be a member or simply happy being dead wood.
Message edited by author 2006-02-16 23:19:36. |
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02/16/2006 11:09:49 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by rscorp:
Well then maybe you should replace Simon on American idol. You're more than entitled to your opinion and all that means is that you think quite a few of the pics that come up in challenges pretty much suck. |
Well, I don't like the Simon comparison so much. I use tact. He doesn't do that so often or so well. I actually just keep my mouth shut about images that I think suck. The rest of your statement is entirely true.
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02/16/2006 11:22:48 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by rscorp:
Well then maybe you should replace Simon on American idol. You're more than entitled to your opinion and all that means is that you think quite a few of the pics that come up in challenges pretty much suck. |
Well, I don't like the Simon comparison so much. I use tact. He doesn't do that so often or so well. I actually just keep my mouth shut about images that I think suck. The rest of your statement is entirely true. |
I appreciate John's honesty. Sometimes people are too polite just to keep from hurting someones feelings. If you went to school to learn to read and the teachers just passed you along to keep from hurting your feelings..are they doing you a favor?
I have started to vote higher mainly because..I see all this as a game and so I will play right now the way I feel. I still vote photos in relation to which ones I like or dont like...I just start at 5 and go up.
In a way..I am probably doing people more of a disservice than someone like John voting lower. He is the tough teacher telling you "CAT" is not spelled "KAT" no matter what your mom or friends say. :-/
I am the one patting you on the head and sending you on your way so I can get back to surfing the net :-D
BTW..Simon is awesome...probably the first real advice some of those people are getting about the music industry without someone blowing smoke up their butt. |
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02/16/2006 11:28:04 PM · #29 |
Here are my stats:
Votes Cast: 6092
Avg Vote Cast: 5.5003
Votes Received: 3474
Avg Vote Received: 5.0901
I'd have to say I'm pretty darn close to that mathematical average of 5.5 as far as votes cast. This despite the fact I've never given a 1 or 2, and rarely a 3. At the same time, I've given very few 10's. So I guess I'm a 4-8/9 voter.
I've noticed another sort of trend - wondering if anyone else sees this or if it's simply due to generous site members: I tend (in my limited collection of them) to get comments from the some of the same people. I suspect it may be that some comment more than others, but I also suspect that there are subsets of members who share an affinity for certain kinds/styles of images. It's kinda interesting, anyway.
And yes, there are some of the ribbon winning shots that I'm not all that "taken" with - just not my "style", I suppose (though I've yet to develop a style.) Maybe it's more that I just don't see what they see in the same way. Or some such rubbish. :-)
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02/16/2006 11:39:19 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by rscorp:
Well then maybe you should replace Simon on American idol. You're more than entitled to your opinion and all that means is that you think quite a few of the pics that come up in challenges pretty much suck. |
Well, I don't like the Simon comparison so much. I use tact. He doesn't do that so often or so well. I actually just keep my mouth shut about images that I think suck. The rest of your statement is entirely true. |
I agree. Even though he may be tactless it's still better than the "I don't want to hurt your feelings" stuff the other two provide. Is this NOT a learning site? Which is more valuable to learning?
Message edited by author 2006-02-16 23:52:27. |
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02/17/2006 02:00:29 PM · #31 |
American Idol and a learning site comparison eh? I like it.
As I think back on my school days I truly think that I learned much less from the Simon Cowell teachers that shoved it down my throat without any respect for my feelings. In fact, as I aged and got to know these people who treated students in such a way, I realized that they were simply unhappy individuals who enjoyed nothing more than to take someone down a notch or two.
Of course this is only my experience. ;)
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02/17/2006 02:17:29 PM · #32 |
It kind of all boils down to voting the challenge (voting on the curve) or voting to a personal absolute standard. Some people give very high scores to what they perceive as the "best" shots in the challenge, and tend to lump most of the shots in the middle, with relatively few "outlier" low votes. These people will have voting averages close to the median, in the 5-to-5.5 range.
Other folks (I'm one of them) vote on what they perceive as "absolute" photographic merit. It's hard to get a 9 or a 10 from someone like me. Most of my votes are 5's and 4's. I give out a good measure of 6's, a fiar number of 7's, and not many 8+ votes at all. I'm in agreement with John; a majority of images entered in our challenges are average-to-mediocre. I'm OK with that, it IS a learning site after all, but how can I "encourage" learning unless I score 'em as I see 'em?
When I see folks that have an average vote-cast in the 6 range, I feel like I'm looking at people who vote emotionally and want to spread the goodwill around. I have no quarrel with it, but it's not my way.
For the record, my average vote cast is just a hair under 5.0; and it could be worse, but I decided to stop giving out 3's and lower except for really, really awful images. I decided that nearly everyone who enters deserves a "4 for effort", so to speak...
Robt.
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02/17/2006 02:26:15 PM · #33 |
I hate the voting scale because it means I have to do some actual work on my photography if I ever want to ribbon or get a 6.xx average vote recieved. It would be much easier if everyone else just understood that they should give me 10's off the bat instead of me having to force myself to photograph something they like or is actually good.
Message edited by author 2006-02-17 14:29:31. |
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02/17/2006 02:51:54 PM · #34 |
| Those scores are generally meaningless, since it is highly based on subjectivity. This is nothing more than a number and this number is only correlated with your own perception. Some ribbon pictures are just awful (in my opinion), because they just do not correspond to what photography means to me. |
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02/17/2006 03:11:17 PM · #35 |
I understand what you're saying wavelength. My dilemma is with how someone expects a low vote to help if they don't accompany it with a helpful critique. If a person's votes cast average is low but their comments pretty much consist of, "Wonderful shot. One of my highest rated in this challenge", or "I absolutely love it, here's a 10 for you" is a bit hypocritical to me.
I have one of your comments on an image of mine and I certainly like your style. You usually mention something that you like about the image along with what you would work on. I think a bit of positiveness along with the criticism is the best way to help some of us newbies learn.
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02/17/2006 04:02:52 PM · #36 |
The rules simply say that 1 is "bad" and 10 is "good". What that means is up to the individual.
So what is so hot about a 7? It appears that the average DPC voter thinks the top finishers rate somewhere around "decent". "Good', after all, is much higher than that.
If you review the voting records of many of the top photographers you will find average scores given like:
Kiwiness - 18 ribbons - 6.44 (He has 10 blue ribbons in only 61 challenges entered)
librodo - 16 ribbons - 6.44
dsidwell - 16 ribbons - 6.52
jacko - 16 ribbons - 5.89
Joey_Lawrence - 7 ribbons - 6.35
zoomdak - 5 ribbons - 6.52
elsapo - 6 ribbons - 5.98
timj351 - 9 ribbons - 6.1
heida - 20 ribbons - 5.72
grigrigirl - 8 ribbons - 5.71
nico_blue - 8 ribbons 5.88
etc.
You suppose these people might know something the rest of us don't?
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