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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Cat Fight: Canon, Nikon, Minolta, Oly, Pentax
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 02/10/2006 02:11:06 PM · #1
Just got the mail, popular photography cover story, "Top buys, Digital SLR shootout:

Nikon D50
Canon Rebel XT
Pentax ist DS2
Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D
Olympus Evolt E-500

Five categories:

1. Image Quality
2. Control
3. Ease of Use
4. System Flexibility

Commence fighting. Answer tonight for those of you who are non-subscribers ;)

02/10/2006 02:18:45 PM · #2
Yep...that was an interesting read. Liked the part about 'Best value for the dollar' (or something similar - don't have the article in front of me currently). ;^)

BTW - What kind of camera are you shooting with Neil? Oh, that's right, it's a Canon. He-he.
 02/10/2006 02:32:42 PM · #3
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Commence fighting. Answer tonight for those of you who are non-subscribers ;)

02/10/2006 02:47:58 PM · #4
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Commence fighting. Answer tonight for those of you who are non-subscribers ;)



LOL - Love it. Canon rules. Must say that my other digital camera is a 3.2MP Fujifilm. Wonderfull little camera. Actualy did a couple of weddings with this one - takes wonderfull photos.
I also have a Minolta LSR and a Canon 300 LSR. Both very good. My Canon 350D is of cource my best investment.
According to me - All makes in the same range are basically the same with minor quality differences. Depends on the photographer. Its like buying a car these days - they are basically the same and does the same. Price is the difference.
 02/10/2006 03:00:00 PM · #5
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Yep...that was an interesting read. Liked the part about 'Best value for the dollar' (or something similar - don't have the article in front of me currently). ;^)

BTW - What kind of camera are you shooting with Neil? Oh, that's right, it's a Canon. He-he.


Hmmm, I wasn't taking sides. Just providing a forum for argument and entertainment. Personally, I almost switched to the Maxxum, or was thinking of buying one as a travel camera, since it has built in IS. But after Konica folded operations, I nixed that idea. Still waiting to see what's next for me.

One disturbing fact I noted about the noise ratings on all five cameras. Canon, with it's CMOS sensor, is actually rated the worst. ISO 1600 is deemed unacceptible. (Now I've shot some ISO 1600, and it's usable, but then again, I have run Neatimage on all of those.

I'd like to see cameras with ISO 3200 and higher be usable. It would take some of the expense out of buying lenses, and some of the weight off too.
 02/10/2006 03:07:41 PM · #6
Originally posted by nshapiro:
One disturbing fact I noted about the noise ratings on all five cameras. Canon, with it's CMOS sensor, is actually rated the worst. ISO 1600 is deemed unacceptible. (Now I've shot some ISO 1600, and it's usable, but then again, I have run Neatimage on all of those.

I'd like to see cameras with ISO 3200 and higher be usable. It would take some of the expense out of buying lenses, and some of the weight off too.


The E-500 had a better noise rating than the Canon at ISO 1600? Seems kinda wierd since the Olympus has the smallest sensor. Then again I have only pushed the E-500 above ISO 800 maybe a handful of times.
 02/10/2006 03:07:43 PM · #7
I bought a Canon Rebel because I thought the name sounded cool, and the chicks would dig me more.
:-)
 02/10/2006 03:15:38 PM · #8
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I bought a Canon Rebel because I thought the name sounded cool, and the chicks would dig me more.
:-)


So do the chicks dig you more?
 02/10/2006 03:20:49 PM · #9
Originally posted by pidge:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I bought a Canon Rebel because I thought the name sounded cool, and the chicks would dig me more.
:-)


So do the chicks dig you more?


I dig him...
02/10/2006 03:31:50 PM · #10
Originally posted by colyla:
Originally posted by pidge:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I bought a Canon Rebel because I thought the name sounded cool, and the chicks would dig me more.
:-)


So do the chicks dig you more?


I dig him...

SWEET!
And Pidge, you may as well admit to your fantasies about my Canon. ;-)
 02/10/2006 03:38:31 PM · #11
Here they go again.
02/10/2006 03:39:03 PM · #12
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Yep...that was an interesting read. Liked the part about 'Best value for the dollar' (or something similar - don't have the article in front of me currently). ;^)

BTW - What kind of camera are you shooting with Neil? Oh, that's right, it's a Canon. He-he.


Hmmm, I wasn't taking sides. Just providing a forum for argument and entertainment. ...

I know. Just had to take an entertaining jab... ;^)
 02/10/2006 03:42:55 PM · #13
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by colyla:
Originally posted by pidge:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I bought a Canon Rebel because I thought the name sounded cool, and the chicks would dig me more.
:-)


So do the chicks dig you more?


I dig him...

SWEET!
And Pidge, you may as well admit to your fantasies about my Canon. ;-)


Hmmmph...
And they say that size doesn't count.... of the lens that is...
 02/10/2006 04:30:09 PM · #14
Isn't the winner whichever manufacturer told the author they could keep the review camera afterwards? :)

I've been quite happy with my K-M 5D, but feel absolutely no compulsion to denigrate four other good cameras, each with their own pros and cons. My 5D is a camera, not a penis substitute. :)

As the saying goes...
Bad photographers talk about which camera is better.
Good photographers talk about which lens is better.
Excellent photographers talk about which tripod is better.

02/10/2006 04:35:53 PM · #15
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by colyla:
Originally posted by pidge:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I bought a Canon Rebel because I thought the name sounded cool, and the chicks would dig me more.
:-)


So do the chicks dig you more?


I dig him...

SWEET!
And Pidge, you may as well admit to your fantasies about my Canon. ;-)


Slippy, you had me at A95 :P
 02/10/2006 04:38:32 PM · #16
Originally posted by paddles:
My 5D is a camera, not a penis substitute. :)


If my D70 is both, does that make it more value for the money?
 02/10/2006 04:42:23 PM · #17
I have a big shovel that we can dig a nice hole in the ground for Slippy... ::angelic look::

Originally posted by colyla:
Originally posted by pidge:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I bought a Canon Rebel because I thought the name sounded cool, and the chicks would dig me more.
:-)


So do the chicks dig you more?


I dig him...
02/10/2006 04:43:14 PM · #18
You have to take the shoot-out with a grain of salt. There are many inconsistencies and oversights about all the cameras in that article.

Also, brand loyalists will be quick to point out the positives and gloss over the negatives.. as usual.

It's unfortunate. It's to a point where brands don't really get a fair shake.. but probably it was always like that.
 02/10/2006 04:55:08 PM · #19
Just reading this thread I realise how far behind I am on what I still have to learn. Luckily since joining DPC, I have come a long way.
 02/10/2006 05:25:16 PM · #20
Originally posted by pidge:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by colyla:
Originally posted by pidge:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I bought a Canon Rebel because I thought the name sounded cool, and the chicks would dig me more.
:-)


So do the chicks dig you more?


I dig him...

SWEET!
And Pidge, you may as well admit to your fantasies about my Canon. ;-)


Slippy, you had me at A95 :P

Heh, I feel like Tom Cruise.
 02/10/2006 05:26:18 PM · #21
Originally posted by Di:
I have a big shovel that we can dig a nice hole in the ground for Slippy... ::angelic look::

Originally posted by colyla:
Originally posted by pidge:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I bought a Canon Rebel because I thought the name sounded cool, and the chicks would dig me more.
:-)


So do the chicks dig you more?


I dig him...

My butt's still red from getting smacked at the zoo GTG, Di! :-P
 02/10/2006 05:36:38 PM · #22
Whatever happened to loving a man with a Nikon and a bus pass? LOL
 02/10/2006 06:49:16 PM · #23
Originally posted by nshapiro:
One disturbing fact I noted about the noise ratings on all five cameras. Canon, with it's CMOS sensor, is actually rated the worst. ISO 1600 is deemed unacceptible. (Now I've shot some ISO 1600, and it's usable, but then again, I have run Neatimage on all of those.


Are those ISO1600 shots exposed properly?
When I shoot at ISO1600 with the D70 (and a good lens, like the 30 f/1.4, 50 f/1.4 or 70-200 f/2.8 VR), a well exposed ISO1600 shot prints out pretty good on 6x4 and pretty decent on A4 sized prints with an Epson R300. The only noise reduction I do is color noise reduction (blue/green/red color noise) and no pattern noise reduction (noise edge blur). The inkjet dithering solves most of the noise issues. I'd go as far as saying that 30x45cm could be acceptable, but haven't tried it yet (the assumption is based on ISO200 Fuji S602Z files printed at 30x45cm).
The only things that screw up ISO1600 prints is corrected underexposure and double print color management (the latter meaning that I tell Photoshop to prepare for the R300 and then the R300 processes the file again instead of only Photoshop or only R300 print management). Correct sharpening is critical too.


02/10/2006 08:26:41 PM · #24
Sander, FWIW, I always expose to the right of the histogram, and I use RAW. I've not yet printed anything I shot as ISO 1600. I mainly do that when I "have to". I can't say whether the 350 is "too noisy", but for most shots, you do want to do noise reduction even after the noise reduction in the RAW converter. My recent Free Study shot was done at ISO 800, and I often just set the camera at ISO 200 or 400 so I can use my choice of shutter speed and aperture.

Here's what the Pop Photo said about Noise:

Nikon D50:
Extremely low at ISO 200-400, Very Low at ISO 800, Low at ISO 1600

Pentax IST DS2:
Extremely low at ISO 200-400, Very Low at ISO 800, Low at ISO 1600, moderately low at ISO 3200

Olympus Evolt E-500:
Very low at ISO 100, Low at ISO 200, Moderately Low at ISO 400-800, Moderate at ISO 1600

Konika 5D:
Low at ISO 100 and 400, Very Low at ISO 200, Moderately Low at ISO 800, Moderate at ISO 1600

Canon Rebel XT:
Very low at ISO 100, Low at ISO 200, Moderately Low at ISO 400, Moderate at ISO 800, Unnacceptable at ISO 1600.

Now I recall them saying this in their initial review of the Rebel, and at the same time, noting that the 20D does not have this problem. I don't know if they reevaluated for this one, or if it's just based on their initial review.

I have my RAW converter (RSP) set to automatically apply more noise reduction to ISO 800, and even more to ISO 1600, but not such that it lowers the image quality noticably; then I just apply a bit more if it needs it during RAW conversion.

I was just surprised to hear them say the Canon was the noisiest of the bunch at high ISO!


02/10/2006 08:37:21 PM · #25
Originally posted by nshapiro:

I was just surprised to hear them say the Canon was the noisiest of the bunch at high ISO!


I guess they got a bad copy because most other tests say that the 350D while slightly worse than the 20D and 300D is better then the D70. The D50 is regarded better as the D70 and the 350D, but at all ISO except ISO1600, where the 350D wins by a small margin.

edit: changed one 350 to 300. :)

Message edited by author 2006-02-10 20:38:26.
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