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02/07/2006 08:47:14 AM · #1 |
IMO, I think people are confusing comments for critiques.
To me, a comment is just that. Commenting on what the viewer is looking at. Relateing first impressions, shareing the emotional value the viewer is experiencing.
A comment can be a one word sentence like "Nice", or a whole text discribing what the viewer has on their mind.
A critique on the other hand delves into the individual basics of a photograph. I.E., compostition, light, color, blacks, white, texture, depth of field, lines, flow, negative space, rule of thirds, effects, movement,crop,emotion ect., ect..
These basic elements of a critique are what a GOOD critique should have.
A comment beside a critique is a good thing, but to just say a comment is a critique, IMO, is wrong.
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02/07/2006 09:21:48 AM · #2 |
Good point. You are right. Most people here, myself included, seem to equate comments with critiques.
Of course, I could be wrong, maybe people are always complaining about the number of comments they get because they want more "Great picture!" comments. Nothing wrong with stroking the 'ol ego! :)
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02/07/2006 10:47:31 AM · #3 |
Having your ego stroked is a natural gratifacation when comming from your peers.
But, couldn't a proper critique, and a ego stroking comment be a good balance instead of a lopsided future rant in some thread?
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02/07/2006 10:49:03 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by American_Horse:
Having your ego stroked is a natural gratifacation when comming from your peers.
But, couldn't a proper critique, and a ego stroking comment be a good balance instead of a lopsided future rant in some thread? |
I could not agree with you more!
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02/07/2006 10:55:37 AM · #5 |
I find it strange to think of the comments on pictures something else then some kind of critque. For how can a comment be helpful in any way. Making you feel better?
A critique in the other hand can be helpful. When we get a "comment/critique" we again judge if it was helpful or not so it must be a critique.
In my opinion!
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02/07/2006 11:00:01 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Gunnsi:
I find it strange to think of the comments on pictures something else then some kind of critque. For how can a comment be helpful in any way. Making you feel better?
A critique in the other hand can be helpful. When we get a "comment/critique" we again judge if it was helpful or not so it must be a critique.
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So, start making solid critiques, don't add comments.
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02/07/2006 11:04:34 AM · #7 |
A critique is always a comment. A comment is not always a critique.
To me critique is something in depth. However, even a one line comment can be a critique if it expresses some insight into what works and what doesn't in the image and/or how to improve the image. |
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02/07/2006 11:07:14 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
To me critique is something in depth. However, even a one line comment can be a critique if it expresses some insight into what works and what doesn't in the image and/or how to improve the image. |
But, that is an opinion. If you don't back up your opinion by telling the artist 'WHY', than you are just blowing hot air.
If you add the basics to your opinion, then you may be on the right track.
Message edited by author 2006-02-07 11:07:42.
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02/07/2006 11:08:56 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by American_Horse:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
To me critique is something in depth. However, even a one line comment can be a critique if it expresses some insight into what works and what doesn't in the image and/or how to improve the image. |
But, that is an opinion. If you don't back up your opinion by telling the artist 'WHY', than you are just blowing hot air.
If you add the basics to your opinion, then you may be on the right track. |
huh?
I guess it's all hot air then since comments/critiques are all subjective therefore all only opinion.
Message edited by author 2006-02-07 11:16:26. |
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02/07/2006 11:11:15 AM · #10 |
My comments for the most part tell why or why not I like the photo. I don't know if my ability allows me to give a complete "Critique". Time is also a constraint....
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02/07/2006 11:19:08 AM · #11 |
cpanaioti,
This is what I am talking about.
In your Leading Lines 2 challenge, "Above All", this is my comment.
Nice job, love the flowers, you need to crop it better.
Now cpanaioti, why did I say that you needed to crop it better? Where is my basis? How dare I!
Now, if I had said...
Nice job, love the flowers, you have too much negative space at the top, cropping might take care of that.
NOw, you have told the viewer a basic fundamental element of the pix, and the artist can take what you said and run with it, or not.
However, a solid critique, does not have to take long to make. If only a few lucky few are given one. At least the benifets are there for those, and you the viewer are not part of a rant thread.
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02/07/2006 11:20:41 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by American_Horse:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
To me critique is something in depth. However, even a one line comment can be a critique if it expresses some insight into what works and what doesn't in the image and/or how to improve the image. |
But, that is an opinion. If you don't back up your opinion by telling the artist 'WHY', than you are just blowing hot air.
If you add the basics to your opinion, then you may be on the right track. |
Not every critique needs to have this list of "basics" which are nothing more than comments on technique...I would much rather get a comment/critique on how an image effects someone emotionally than how nice the lines are...each person has their own ideas as to what a "proper" critique is. What one has to be careful of are making assumptions, we have all done it, and many "whys" are just this...assumptions and opinions...and we all know that assumptions can often be dead wrong.
Comments, critiques, opinions and even assumptions are all parts of the creative dialogue.
edited for typos : }
Message edited by author 2006-02-07 11:25:11. |
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02/07/2006 11:31:13 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by American_Horse:
cpanaioti,
This is what I am talking about.
In your Leading Lines 2 challenge, "Above All", this is my comment.
Nice job, love the flowers, you need to crop it better.
Now cpanaioti, why did I say that you needed to crop it better? Where is my basis? How dare I!
Now, if I had said...
Nice job, love the flowers, you have too much negative space at the top, cropping might take care of that.
NOw, you have told the viewer a basic fundamental element of the pix, and the artist can take what you said and run with it, or not.
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You've still only stated an opinion. Why do you feel there is too much negative space? There's still nothing to run with/or not as you put it.
edit: I understand what you are putting forth is probably what you would like to see when someone critiques your photos.
Message edited by author 2006-02-07 11:40:49. |
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02/07/2006 11:42:55 AM · #14 |
To me a critique is any comment that shows a possible way to improve on the image. (In any way).
Without having the camera settings available during the voting and without knowing the available lenses or the artist̢۪s comments on what they were trying to achieve by taking the picture in the first place. You really don̢۪t have enough information to be of much help to them technically.
If they wanted the picture soft or they worked hard to blur the person in the foreground you run the risk of insulting them by suggesting they change their vision.
I find the easiest critique I can make is of the composition itself. All the likes and dislikes of subject, color, positioning and weather or not I like the person in the foreground blurred, regardless of how the camera was set.
Without knowing the equipment used, the settings and why the picture was taken, I really need to assume the picture turned out just the way the photographer wanted it. After all, they were proud enough of the shot to enter it in a contest.
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02/07/2006 11:51:42 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
You've still only stated an opinion.
edit: I understand what you are putting forth is probably what you would like to see when someone critiques your photos. |
Yes, you right, it is just an opinion.
No, I am used to just getting 'comment' from the WWW.
Gringo, you are correct.
I give up.
Message edited by author 2006-02-07 11:53:03.
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02/07/2006 11:57:26 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by American_Horse:
IMO, I think people are confusing comments for critiques.
To me, a comment is just that. Commenting on what the viewer is looking at. Relateing first impressions, shareing the emotional value the viewer is experiencing.
A comment can be a one word sentence like "Nice", or a whole text discribing what the viewer has on their mind.
A critique on the other hand delves into the individual basics of a photograph. I.E., compostition, light, color, blacks, white, texture, depth of field, lines, flow, negative space, rule of thirds, effects, movement,crop,emotion ect., ect..
These basic elements of a critique are what a GOOD critique should have.
A comment beside a critique is a good thing, but to just say a comment is a critique, IMO, is wrong. |
In that case can we get rid of comments and just have critiques, cause I hate getting comments like, 'Nice' or even worse, people who just post the score the gave. |
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02/07/2006 12:07:06 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by American_Horse:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
You've still only stated an opinion.
edit: I understand what you are putting forth is probably what you would like to see when someone critiques your photos. |
Yes, you right, it is just an opinion.
No, I am used to just getting 'comment' from the WWW.
Gringo, you are correct.
I give up. |
As you can see, even the definition of what makes a critique is subjective.
Here's an idea. You expect people to comment on certain things in a certain way when reviewing your photos. Why not put what you expect in your profile. Sure, this won't help challenge entries due to anonymity but may help with profile pics. Just a thought.
Keep commenting and throw the odd critique in just to keep everyone on their toes. ;o)
First and foremost, have fun and try not to get too frustrated. |
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02/07/2006 01:18:19 PM · #18 |
American Horse, I didn't mean to frustrate your efforts to improve critiques on entries. (Never give up).
When I am looking for a real comprehensive opinion or critique on one of my shots, I usually find someone who̢۪s work I really admire and I ask them for help. It doesn̢۪t make much sense to me to gain the opinion of Andy Warhol on my old time nostalgic scene, however Norman Rockwell̢۪s opinion on such a composition would be priceless.
If you are serious about getting valuable feedback on one of your pictures, drop a message to one of your favorite photographers on the site and ask them. I̢۪m sure most of them would be flattered to hear from you.
Best,
Gringo
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02/07/2006 02:35:21 PM · #19 |
I do both. Comment and Critisize. I am not an expert so maybe you should look at it as comments :-)
Sometimes I just say what I feel, sometimes I try to explain what I think is better for the picture and what was good in it. Also what was not good in it.
The worst comment I have received is in a current challenge: "4"
No more, no less.
May be there should be two kind of text to post for the pictures. One for comments and one for critique.
Whe I receive a comment/critique I read it, try to understand it, see if it is something of use for me and then I look at who gave me that comment to see if the commenter knows what he is talking about.
Originally posted by American_Horse:
Originally posted by Gunnsi:
I find it strange to think of the comments on pictures something else then some kind of critque. For how can a comment be helpful in any way. Making you feel better?
A critique in the other hand can be helpful. When we get a "comment/critique" we again judge if it was helpful or not so it must be a critique.
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So, start making solid critiques, don't add comments. |
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02/07/2006 04:19:41 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
You expect people to comment on certain things in a certain way when reviewing your photos. Why not put what you expect in your profile. |
That always assumes that you already know what the shortcomings of your image are ... and you want comments on just what you want to hear. That doesn't allow for the possibility that the viewers are seeing something completely different in your image than you are. I would venture to suggest that this would be the case - without exception.
So there's you thinking it bombed in the voting because of angle is wrong when in reality it could be because the composition left viwers wondering where to look.
If you don't want a proper critique and a free opinion from a critiquer, for goodness sake don't tick the box ... that would be one less in the queue - whew.
Brett |
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02/07/2006 04:23:24 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by KiwiPix:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
You expect people to comment on certain things in a certain way when reviewing your photos. Why not put what you expect in your profile. |
That always assumes that you already know what the shortcomings of your image are ... and you want comments on just what you want to hear. That doesn't allow for the possibility that the viewers are seeing something completely different in your image than you are. I would venture to suggest that this would be the case - without exception.
So there's you thinking it bombed in the voting because of angle is wrong when in reality it could be because the composition left viwers wondering where to look.
If you don't want a proper critique and a free opinion from a critiquer, for goodness sake don't tick the box ... that would be one less in the queue - whew.
Brett |
I think you missed something in previous posts. American_Horse was not identifying specifics. He was indicating a way of doing a critique which is what my reply is referring to. |
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02/07/2006 04:25:48 PM · #22 |
I find it difficult to comment effectively without any idea of the knowledge of the photographer who took the picture.
I could ramble on for days about some basic concept and the person may well understand it so well that commenting on it was a waste of time for the writer & reader.
I might assume basics like a knowledge of exposure and reciprocity and then lose a beginner in the first line of a comment.
Without knowledge of the audience, any critique with technical info or assumptions about the reader is often a waste of time to write. |
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