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01/31/2006 08:29:23 AM · #26 |
Seems kind of like a "mulligan" in golf. ;^)
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01/31/2006 08:34:20 AM · #27 |
Laugh at the poor sheep who do not understand your artistic vision.
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01/31/2006 08:53:48 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
To the peolpe who are trying to make it out as sort of a negative thing to do I ask you why? What's wrong with using the self DQ feature? |
If this site is supposed to be all about learning doesn't the self DQ work against that purpose for both the competitor and the other members?
It is obvious to anyone, whether a first time submitter or a veteran, that a site called Digital Photo Challenge is about competition, public opinion and challenging yourself.
If a person wants to DQ themselves fine, your photo, but it sort of defeats the whole DP Challenge thing eh?
When was the last time someone self DQ'ed themselves while they were scoring a 6 or more?
So if people are telling you how wonderful your photo is, cool, the site is great. People tell you not so nice things...boo...voters suck...you are all idiots. But those same voters if they score you high are intelligent..they get it....score you low they are sheep?
You can't have it both ways.
So ...Self DQ...but why are you here then? |
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01/31/2006 09:01:21 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
A self-DQ just goes away like it never happened. |
Actually not totally true.
If you use the self DQ option, please remember that your next DQ in 25 challenges will result in a 1 week vacation. So as an example, say sometime in the next 25 challenges you have a date violation, we will have to suspend you.
Think really, really hard before you decide to use this. :)
Clara |
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01/31/2006 09:30:42 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by blemt:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
A self-DQ just goes away like it never happened. |
Actually not totally true.
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Clara - I think you took my comment a bit out of context. I was responding to a comment where it sounded like someone was questioning why someone would tarnish their "resume'". Resume' in this case meaning the public face or profile viewable by all on DPC. A self-DQ doesn't show up anywhere publicly.
You make a valid point (as was pointed out in the rules posted by FranzsikaLang earlier)...be careful with requesting a self-DQ as it's still a strike until you've completed 25 entries without complication.
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01/31/2006 09:32:52 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
I'm really kind of surprised at all the posters who are saying "don't do it" as if it were some morally decrepid act. There is nothing wrong with a self DQ and no stigma should be attached to it. There are as many reason as there are requesters, with a very low score being perhaps the most widely used. Self DQ is just one of the features that the site offers. It's painless and should be guiltless. Take advantage of it just as you do the update button, the forums, the tutorials, etc.
To the peolpe who are trying to make it out as sort of a negative thing to do I ask you why? What's wrong with using the self DQ feature? |
The OP is perfectly within his rights to request a self-DQ for any reason Whether we think it's a good idea is a different question.
First, as Clara mentioned, remember that a self-DQ counts as a normal DQ for the purposes of assessing suspensions for multiple DQ's. That means that if you take a self-DQ, and any one of your next 25 entries are disqualified, you will most likely be suspended from entering challenges. This may seem harsh, but we could self-DQ's to encourage people to think long and hard about using them for frivolous reasons.
Second is that by taking a self-DQ, the OP will be unable to self-DQ any of his next 25 entries. If a couple months down the road, he submits a photo of (or containing) a friend or family member, and that person gets upset and requests that he pull the photo, he's going to have a real problem, as he will be ineligible to request that self-DQ under the rules.
Third and perhaps most importantly, by pulling his entry. the OP is denying himself the opportunity to learn from the comments that come in. As my username suggests, I am a juggler. I have a saying that I use when I teach people to juggle, which is, "if you're not dropping, you're not learning." What this means is that in order to improve, the juggler needs to step his or her of one's own comfort zone and accept that occasional, temporary failures are an inevitable part of long-term growth and permanent improvement in one's skill level. Likewise, every successful artist has had to experiment and grow to master his or her art. When we accept our occasional failures, we allow ourselves to analyze and learn from them, and therefore to grow and become more successful going forward.
~Terry
Message edited by author 2006-01-31 09:34:22.
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01/31/2006 09:52:55 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by hokie:
... It is obvious to anyone, whether a first time submitter or a veteran, that a site called Digital Photo Challenge is about competition, public opinion and challenging yourself.
... |
I know I'm zeroing in on a small portion of your post hokie, but I feel that point is close to the essence of this debate.
The challenges are a competition. We compete in each of them and we compete with our total challenge experience by comparing our Avg Vote Received with that of others. The competition is what motivates us to keep at the learning part, and the scores tell us when we are improving, at least as measured by the dpc voters. When the rules of the game allow us to occasionally take a mulligan, to throw out one of our lower scores, we would be concedeing an advantage in the competition if we refuse to use that provision.
Taking a self DQ is not a good thing or a bad thing to do. It is just part of the infrastructure here at dpc. And as blemt has so cogently pointed out, it's not quite free because there is an element of risk involved. However, it can also be looked upon as an additional motivator because you must work a little more diligently to make sure you don't get another DQ in your next 25 challenges. Sloppyness regarding dates or rules will cost you dearly for a while after taking a self DQ.
A low score may not be the best reason to DQ yourself but it is an acceptable one. If you take the Self DQ for this reason you are betting that you will be able to go thru your next 25 challenges without scoring that low again, so that will be another stick to try to get better results in the future. That's challenging yourself, isn't it?
All humans make mistakes. Selecting the wrong image to enter is a common one around here. Once every 25 challenges we are allowed to correct that mistake.
Everyone is entitled to use their own judgement on whether they want to do a self DQ for whatever reason and according to their own standards. But don't put someone else down for doing it. There are no moral or ethical implications involved.
As always, just my two cents.
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01/31/2006 10:16:48 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
I'm really kind of surprised at all the posters who are saying "don't do it" as if it were some morally decrepid act. |
I have to agree. I think the main issue is what anyone thinks of the image during the competition. Do they still like it, and are just aggravated/embarrassed by the low score? Then I'd be tempted to keep it in.
However, haven't you guys ever entered what you thought was a beautiful image, and then once the competition starts you see the comments and realize you had been hallucinating; you start to hate the photo? This happened to me, and I self-dq'd. I had already learned that it was a stinker - I agreed with the commentators. There was nothing else to say. I pulled the image & am not at all regretful. In fact, I'm thrilled that I don't have to see it in my profile page.
edited to add last sentence
Message edited by author 2006-01-31 10:17:49. |
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01/31/2006 10:17:21 AM · #34 |
Whoever pointed out that it was like a mulligan (glad2badad, maybe?), that was the exact concept we had in mind when it was "developed."
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01/31/2006 11:25:54 AM · #35 |
| Although the site has developed and instituted the self dq (without a popular vote on the issue) I have never been in favor of it - I view it as a form of challenge manipulation. Certianly this thread would be unnecessary if it were not allowed. I am not against a dq for rules violations or for other legitmate reasons, but because one is scoreing low/ones overall score will suffer, people don\'t think it is pretty, bad comments, or any other self serving reason - during voting or after is just simply manipulation, it negates the concept of the challenge and defeats what I see as a real view of a challengers growth. It is a bad rule, favors high score challengers, and infringes deeply into the value of what a challenge is all about - which is - if you decide to enter, you do it with what you have. |
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01/31/2006 11:47:00 AM · #36 |
You know what I can't figure out about this site, is why some people take it to the extremes. Seriously, after reading the forum for an extended period of time, it would seem some people almost dedicate their lives to these challenges. Granted I know a lot of people find them fun, and challenging, and it gives them something to do, but when you become obsessed I just don't get it. You don't lose or gain anything with your score, you aren't risking your photographic career by placing poorly on a shot, and you're not gaining anything more than a DPC bragging right for taking 1st place. Save the drama for contests that have some effect on your life, and if you have some personal attachment to the photo, what does scoring a 4.x do to change that? My photo for this challenge is sucking it up huge, but the one thing about DPC is that the voters like a certain style, and not everyone fits that mold, and if you can't handle it, don't enter.
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