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01/25/2006 05:36:48 AM · #51 |
I'm usually against posting before voting finishes but when the challenge is something as broad as wildlife you can't expect no wildlife shots to be posted in the forums for a week.
When the challenge is something quite specific its best not to post though. |
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01/25/2006 05:55:31 AM · #52 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
Originally posted by David.C:
Debating it in a derailed thread is pointless -- the majority of those that would participate won't know the debate is going on. But in the end, one thing I've learned in 'my' time on this site is that there are only 18 opinions that matter -- 16 with funky icons and 2 gold. Either one of the gold trumps all of the funky, even taken all at once.
Both of the gold, in collectively creating this community, put a forum here to 'Discuss the current challenge and how you feel about it or ideas you may haveâ€Â¦'.
But the funky have been given dominion over the community by the golden, and in that capacity they enforce what is the unwritten 'site etiquette'. They edit posts and hide threads for destroying anonymity, for abusive behavior and recently for rednecks (oops) -- but they do not modify threads for posting outtakes or discussing current challenges.
In this the leadership of the funky golden are as one -- let all be at peace.
David |
Dave, I've read your post here three of four times and can not make any sense out of it. I'm gonna write it off as being tired and emotionally drained as far as this thread goes. I don't know if you have a point or not but if you do, please feel free to sleep on it, re-write it and I'll look at it tomorrow. |
Well, so much for a late-night attempt at humor -- so here it is again in my usual verbose style. ;
Discussing matters of how the site is run by dragging a thread off-topic is not serving any purpose at all. There are only 18 people on this site that have opinions that matter as far as site politics is concerned -- the 16 site council and 2 admin. Aside from an occasional poll or forum asking for input, our opinions just don't matter to how this site is run. Debating it here, where none of the 18 with opinions that matter have peeked in, is doing nothing but creating enemies. If you want to change the way the site is run, lobby the rule makers, start a thread on the subject or even dredge up one of the many old ones (this too has been discussed ad nauseam).
But as far as how the site stands now:
1) the admins (with their gold icons), when they created the site together, also created this forum to 'Discuss the current challenge and how you feel about it or ideas you may haveâ€Â¦'.
2) the admin do not take much of an active role in the running of the site anymore (at least from my perspective), but have instead given that authority to the SC (with thier funky icons). That authority extends to preserving the sense of community by enforcing the unwritten 'site etiquette'. And, in this capacity they hide threads and edit posts for a number of reasons from destroying anonymity to abusive behavior to most recently for using the word redneck. But not once have I seen them censor anyone for discussing a current challenge or for displaying images that are not in the challenges.
All 18 of the people with opinions that matter, with their actions and inactions, have declared discussions of current challenges and images not in the challenges to be well within the site rules, site etiquette and common courtesy. Even though some may personally feel differently -- they act (or don't act, as the case may be) with one collective voice in this matter.
Maybe that is easier to read -- but it's not as much fun to type. :P
David
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01/25/2006 06:20:44 AM · #53 |
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01/25/2006 07:28:40 AM · #54 |
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01/25/2006 08:23:07 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by wsteyn:
Well spotted Tony - all are from Tygerberg Zoo! Are you a regular there? |
Should spend more time than I do. Last time I was there was the middle of last year.
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01/25/2006 08:33:04 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
Originally posted by Mr Tee:
Originally posted by TooCool:
Originally posted by Mr Tee:
Originally posted by TooCool:
OK... Let me try this a different way. How does it benefit this site to post outtakes during the voting period? I will listen you will debate... |
Sorry, I don't have enough forum posts in my profile to debate anything. I will return when I am better qualified. |
You can take it that way if you wish. I was simply trying to compare my passion for this site against yours. You appear out of the blue and 'know' what is best for the site and what isn't. I have been here through thick and thin. I have been on the winnin' side and losin'. I am always here. You appear out of thin air and know what is best for the site. When you can answer the question put before you with the passion that I have, I will be here to debate you. |
And there was I thinking that, as a paying member of this site, I had as much right to join in these discussions as any other paying member. Obviously I must be accepted by the likes of you before that can happen. Well, us "New boys" should know our place I suppose, so I will take my "Passion" for photography elsewhere and ask the Council to delete me from the site until I grow up a little more.
Thank you for a valuable lesson. |
You can take it that way if you wish... (god damn it Brent, I'm repeating myself again) I don't want you to go away. Just think about the community as a whole and what will make DPC a stronger friendlier happier place to be for all... Common courtesy, site etiquette... |
Your answer to my original post, That I felt it would make no difference to me" (Nice attitude)was unnecessary. I assumed the objection would be that others could identify images posted in the challenge, therefore, as I had not entered, it would not affect me. You obviously read something entirely different into it.
I have no disrespect for this site, quite the contrary. However, the fact that you felt the need to read my profile and then use my lack of involvement as part of your argument proves only that your so called "passion" for this site and desire to make it "a friendlier happier place to be for all..." does not extend to being friendly toward newer members of the site, and courtesy is a word you have obviously have little use for, except accusing others of not exercising it.
Although I have been a member for two years, events in my life, which I choose not to discuss here, have prevented me from getting as involved as I would have liked. Your attitude toward me because I have "come out of the blue", a fact to which I attach no relevance whatsoever, means that I no longer have any desire to continue any involvement.
As you have not felt the need to apologise for anything you have said proves, you feel your words are justified and you have something against newcomers expressing their views. Which justifies my reasons for asking the administrators to delete me from the site, which I have done.
Perhaps in future you will demonstrate more of the friendliness and common courtesy to new members that you insist you are trying to promote.
Message edited by author 2006-01-25 08:39:08. |
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01/25/2006 08:36:55 AM · #57 |
next time title the thread "WARNING Wildlife Outtakes" lol...
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01/25/2006 08:55:36 AM · #58 |
| i have to agree that outtakes should be done AFTER the voting period is over..seems like lately as soon as the rollever is done the outtakes show up... to me its disrespectful to the entrants in the challenges. I do enjoy seeing the outtakes though as soon as the voting is over. |
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01/25/2006 10:24:05 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by Di:
i have to agree that outtakes should be done AFTER the voting period is over..seems like lately as soon as the rollever is done the outtakes show up... to me its disrespectful to the entrants in the challenges. I do enjoy seeing the outtakes though as soon as the voting is over. |
I really fail to see why it is disrespectful. I would understand if someone were to post an outtake and couple that with a post stating "This was one of my worst, but it's better than 90% of those entered", yes that is disrespectful. However, by voting time all images are visible, if mine is not a good quality image, I am going to feel just as bad looking at the other entries as looking at outtakes. Posting outtakes before the voting starts would do more damage.
Posting the outtakes after the voting is over, surely is no different than posting during the vote.
So where is the ruling by the Council that outtakes should not be shown until after the voting is over?
Does posting your score during voting show disrespect also? that goes on all the time. Has there been a ruling on that?
Message edited by author 2006-01-25 10:25:16. |
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01/25/2006 10:31:18 AM · #60 |
Originally posted by Mr Tee:
Originally posted by Di:
i have to agree that outtakes should be done AFTER the voting period is over..seems like lately as soon as the rollever is done the outtakes show up... to me its disrespectful to the entrants in the challenges. I do enjoy seeing the outtakes though as soon as the voting is over. |
I really fail to see why it is disrespectful. I would understand if someone were to post an outtake and couple that with a post stating "This was one of my worst, but it's better than 90% of those entered", yes that is disrespectful. However, by voting time all images are visible, if mine is not a good quality image, I am going to feel just as bad looking at the other entries as looking at outtakes. Posting outtakes before the voting starts would do more damage.
Posting the outtakes after the voting is over, surely is no different than posting during the vote.
So where is the ruling by the Council that outtakes should not be shown until after the voting is over?
Does posting your score during voting show disrespect also? that goes on all the time. Has there been a ruling on that? |
Maybe we need to approach SC about the outtakes...since there are people who think that its so important to show their outtakes as rollover hits... since you seem to think its so important to show them as soonas rollover hits... go for it to get them to write a rule that will allow it.... personally I will from noow on put on ignore any thread that shows outtakes prior to the end of voting... its MY PERSONAL OPINION that showing them prior to the end of voting is tasteless and show-offy.. but thats MY PERSONAL OPINION. In MY PERSONAL OPIINION, people showing off their outtakes that quickly need attention, and I wont give them that attention.
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01/25/2006 10:38:25 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by David.C:
Originally posted by TooCool:
Common courtesy and site etiquette are not on your side on this one. ... |
Actually, no -- at least not in the time I've been here. The challenges and the forums have always been considered separate entities -- with the single exception of not destroying anonymity, that is the only site etiquette.
There are some that disagree with posting outtakes, there are some that disagree with any discussion of the current challenges -- but it is encouraged by the site, that is after all what the 'Current Challenge' forum is for.
Besides, restricting what sort of photos can be posted for review is not in the sites best interest. There is a challenge on the color blue right now, should we forbid any images exhibiting prominent blue elements? How about romantic images -- there's a challenge for that as well. Actually, there is a free study going on this month -- maybe we should not post any photos at all until it's over.
Start restricting what photos can be presented for review (with the exception of those restricted by the TOS) and the greatest benefit of the site vanishes.
IMO -- of course. ;)
David |
David - You hit this squarely on the head with your comments. This has been bounced around numerous times and I think what you've said is well put and I agree.
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01/25/2006 10:46:23 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by Di:
Originally posted by Mr Tee:
Originally posted by Di:
i have to agree that outtakes should be done AFTER the voting period is over..seems like lately as soon as the rollever is done the outtakes show up... to me its disrespectful to the entrants in the challenges. I do enjoy seeing the outtakes though as soon as the voting is over. |
I really fail to see why it is disrespectful. I would understand if someone were to post an outtake and couple that with a post stating "This was one of my worst, but it's better than 90% of those entered", yes that is disrespectful. However, by voting time all images are visible, if mine is not a good quality image, I am going to feel just as bad looking at the other entries as looking at outtakes. Posting outtakes before the voting starts would do more damage.
Posting the outtakes after the voting is over, surely is no different than posting during the vote.
So where is the ruling by the Council that outtakes should not be shown until after the voting is over?
Does posting your score during voting show disrespect also? that goes on all the time. Has there been a ruling on that? |
Maybe we need to approach SC about the outtakes...since there are people who think that its so important to show their outtakes as rollover hits... since you seem to think its so important to show them as soonas rollover hits... go for it to get them to write a rule that will allow it.... personally I will from noow on put on ignore any thread that shows outtakes prior to the end of voting... its MY PERSONAL OPINION that showing them prior to the end of voting is tasteless and show-offy.. but thats MY PERSONAL OPINION. In MY PERSONAL OPIINION, people showing off their outtakes that quickly need attention, and I wont give them that attention. |
No, no, I didn't say it was so important to show them, I was questioning why it was disrespectful. Neither was I looking for a ruling to allow it, I asked if there was a ruling that it should not be done.
My outtake was not looking for attention because I did not enter the challenge. I only seek attention by entering a challenge, at least I hope so. |
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01/25/2006 10:49:52 AM · #63 |
| I removed a photo from the Wildlife challenge because of advanced editing...didn't want to edit my photo to the unnatural standard that seems to be the norm around here. Then I posted it to my port because I was really excited about capturing two hawks in the same frame. Then after reading this post, I've deleted it from my port...only had 5 views anyway...not sure what I'm doing here, to be honest. |
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01/25/2006 10:53:02 AM · #64 |
The photo is exquisite... and should have been entered.
Originally posted by Mr Tee:
Originally posted by Di:
Originally posted by Mr Tee:
Originally posted by Di:
i have to agree that outtakes should be done AFTER the voting period is over..seems like lately as soon as the rollever is done the outtakes show up... to me its disrespectful to the entrants in the challenges. I do enjoy seeing the outtakes though as soon as the voting is over. |
I really fail to see why it is disrespectful. I would understand if someone were to post an outtake and couple that with a post stating "This was one of my worst, but it's better than 90% of those entered", yes that is disrespectful. However, by voting time all images are visible, if mine is not a good quality image, I am going to feel just as bad looking at the other entries as looking at outtakes. Posting outtakes before the voting starts would do more damage.
Posting the outtakes after the voting is over, surely is no different than posting during the vote.
So where is the ruling by the Council that outtakes should not be shown until after the voting is over?
Does posting your score during voting show disrespect also? that goes on all the time. Has there been a ruling on that? |
Maybe we need to approach SC about the outtakes...since there are people who think that its so important to show their outtakes as rollover hits... since you seem to think its so important to show them as soonas rollover hits... go for it to get them to write a rule that will allow it.... personally I will from noow on put on ignore any thread that shows outtakes prior to the end of voting... its MY PERSONAL OPINION that showing them prior to the end of voting is tasteless and show-offy.. but thats MY PERSONAL OPINION. In MY PERSONAL OPIINION, people showing off their outtakes that quickly need attention, and I wont give them that attention. |
No, no, I didn't say it was so important to show them, I was questioning why it was disrespectful. Neither was I looking for a ruling to allow it, I asked if there was a ruling that it should not be done.
My outtake was not looking for attention because I did not enter the challenge. I only seek attention by entering a challenge, at least I hope so. |
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01/25/2006 11:00:29 AM · #65 |
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01/25/2006 11:02:00 AM · #66 |
Bad form or not....I bailed on the concept of entering a Subway rat image for two reasons...
It was tough to get a good angle up close, the lighting was terrible and I assumed people would bitch that the subway isn't a natural surrounding...even though rats are wild and it is their natural surrounding....also, they totally gross people out. LOL
 unedited image
Any thoughts on the concept? Would I have been strung up by the voters?
Message edited by author 2006-01-25 11:23:30. |
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01/25/2006 11:06:56 AM · #67 |
| I had the same thought but was going with a pigeon. Decided voters couldn't see past the 'natural' part, though a pigeons natural habitat is now urban. Least it is in Baltimore... :) |
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01/25/2006 11:08:33 AM · #68 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
... Any thoughts on the concept? Would I have been strung up by the voters? |
No disrespect, but it would have needed some heavy editing to make the subject stand out I think. Conceptually, it seems wild enough to me and could run away from you if it wanted to (and probably did!). ;^)
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01/25/2006 11:17:35 AM · #69 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
... Any thoughts on the concept? Would I have been strung up by the voters? |
No disrespect, but it would have needed some heavy editing to make the subject stand out I think. Conceptually, it seems wild enough to me and could run away from you if it wanted to (and probably did!). ;^) |
I appreciate that but the images were very noisy and that was one of the best....not the image I would have entered by a long shot. I peppered the subway tracks with Doritos and they peeped out to eat but I couldn't get close enough to get a great shot before they ran away. Handheld...low light 1/30 sec. f2.8 ISO 1250, really really tough.
Message edited by author 2006-01-25 11:22:33. |
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01/25/2006 11:26:06 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Marjo:
... I've deleted it from my port...only had 5 views anyway...not sure what I'm doing here, to be honest. |
Marj - What did you go and do that for? Especially in your portfolio. I could see if you agreed with those opposed to outtakes and you removed it from this thread.
If you're going to take this step, why stop there? I mean, shouldn't all "Wildlife" type images be removed from portfolios in case they are seen during the challenge voting period, regardless of when they were taken? After all, someone could be unduly swayed by a gorgeous animal shot posted last week, last month, etc...
BTW - This was a nice photo from about a month ago (not mine...I wish!)
These are kind of fun, and they are staying in my portfolio. ;^)
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Nice photos and explanation.
(Off topic - I guess it's just me. I'm having one of those "unappreciated moments".) |
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01/25/2006 11:26:48 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by Di:
The photo is exquisite... and should have been entered. |
I missed it...... and I didn't enter that in particular because it was taken in a zoo, not what I would consider natural environment
Message edited by author 2006-01-25 11:31:18. |
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01/25/2006 11:29:22 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by Marjo:
I removed a photo from the Wildlife challenge because of advanced editing...didn't want to edit my photo to the unnatural standard that seems to be the norm around here. Then I posted it to my port because I was really excited about capturing two hawks in the same frame. Then after reading this post, I've deleted it from my port...only had 5 views anyway...not sure what I'm doing here, to be honest. |
You are here like the rest of us, to learn and improve, surely that's what this site is about? |
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01/25/2006 12:12:21 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by Mr Tee:
Your answer to my original post, That I felt it would make no difference to me" (Nice attitude)was unnecessary. I assumed the objection would be that others could identify images posted in the challenge, therefore, as I had not entered, it would not affect me. You obviously read something entirely different into it.
I have no disrespect for this site, quite the contrary. However, the fact that you felt the need to read my profile and then use my lack of involvement as part of your argument proves only that your so called "passion" for this site and desire to make it "a friendlier happier place to be for all..." does not extend to being friendly toward newer members of the site, and courtesy is a word you have obviously have little use for, except accusing others of not exercising it.
Although I have been a member for two years, events in my life, which I choose not to discuss here, have prevented me from getting as involved as I would have liked. Your attitude toward me because I have "come out of the blue", a fact to which I attach no relevance whatsoever, means that I no longer have any desire to continue any involvement.
As you have not felt the need to apologise for anything you have said proves, you feel your words are justified and you have something against newcomers expressing their views. Which justifies my reasons for asking the administrators to delete me from the site, which I have done.
Perhaps in future you will demonstrate more of the friendliness and common courtesy to new members that you insist you are trying to promote. |
I did take your orignal reply and other comments the wrong way. For that I do appologize. I am not here to chase anyone away. I do not want to restrict posting of any photos here. I just don't believe that during the challenge there is any need to call undue attention to them by putting them under a banner titled 'outtakes'. If one wishes to compare a shot against what they or anyone else has posted in the challenge that should be done after the voting period.
What is wrong with posting the shots under a more nuetral thread title and allowing people to say 'hey that would have done good in the (use any current title) challenge? |
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01/25/2006 12:20:32 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
Originally posted by Mr Tee:
Your answer to my original post, That I felt it would make no difference to me" (Nice attitude)was unnecessary. I assumed the objection would be that others could identify images posted in the challenge, therefore, as I had not entered, it would not affect me. You obviously read something entirely different into it.
I have no disrespect for this site, quite the contrary. However, the fact that you felt the need to read my profile and then use my lack of involvement as part of your argument proves only that your so called "passion" for this site and desire to make it "a friendlier happier place to be for all..." does not extend to being friendly toward newer members of the site, and courtesy is a word you have obviously have little use for, except accusing others of not exercising it.
Although I have been a member for two years, events in my life, which I choose not to discuss here, have prevented me from getting as involved as I would have liked. Your attitude toward me because I have "come out of the blue", a fact to which I attach no relevance whatsoever, means that I no longer have any desire to continue any involvement.
As you have not felt the need to apologise for anything you have said proves, you feel your words are justified and you have something against newcomers expressing their views. Which justifies my reasons for asking the administrators to delete me from the site, which I have done.
Perhaps in future you will demonstrate more of the friendliness and common courtesy to new members that you insist you are trying to promote. |
I did take your orignal reply and other comments the wrong way. For that I do appologize. I am not here to chase anyone away. I do not want to restrict posting of any photos here. I just don't believe that during the challenge there is any need to call undue attention to them by putting them under a banner titled 'outtakes'. If one wishes to compare a shot against what they or anyone else has posted in the challenge that should be done after the voting period.
What is wrong with posting the shots under a more nuetral thread title and allowing people to say 'hey that would have done good in the (use any current title) challenge? |
Taking my post the wrong way is one thing but to tell me virtually that my opinion is less valid than yours because I have not entered enough challenges or posted in enough forums is an insult to me personally and to any other new members. That is not the way to promote this site.
A debate is attacking the issue, not the speaker. |
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01/25/2006 12:23:41 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
... What is wrong with posting the shots under a more nuetral thread title and allowing people to say 'hey that would have done good in the (use any current title) challenge? |
I have to agree. It's amazing how the thread title can so unnerve some here. I've circumvented this with the exact method you just mentioned a time or two myself. ;^)
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