Canon 30D - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

01/10/2006 09:54:54 AM · #53

My expectations for 2006:

- All new cameras move to a 2.5" LCD
- Mid-to-late 2006, anti-dust system implemented.
- SD card slots in addition to CF

I believe that 1.6x crop is here to stay for a few years and will be the main difference between pro & semi-pro/amateur DSLRs. The 1.3x is in fact the temp. crop and only exists as a compromise for sports & and high-speed photography. As soon as they manage an 8-12fps on a full frame system you will see the 1.3x crop die. But I do not think you'll see the 1.6x crop die for at least 5 yrs.

Eye control - I really think this is a feature they should release with the 30D. Said feature might not have gone over well with the film professionals. But many people who buy the 20D line are strong enthusiasts of photography but also strong "tech" aficianados. So where I can see that many traditional film photographers would have balked at the eye control; I truly believe it will come into it's own in the DSLR world. Where many of the users are more inclined to use new tech. (Of course put an option in the menu to turn it off or override with manual control.) This would also help set apart the Rebel XT and future consumer products from the 20D/30D line. If support for said feature goes over well. It would then be implemented in top of the line 1D series.

Also, they need a dramatically smaller WiFi option.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

01/10/2006 10:01:55 AM · #54

Originally posted by Didymus:

In one magazine a reader suggested that some camera makers ought to to come up with a real B&W camera. Currently every coloured pixel is interpolated from 4 sensor cells (RGGB). If all thoe cells would register intensity only, you would have a camera for BW photography that would yield 4 times the current resolution at zero chrominance and 12-14 bit depth. Now THAT would be something!

In fact, that's a real interesting idea, from a technical perspective. Such a camera would inherently have more than a 1-stop advantage in sensitivity over a color camera just from removing the color filters, which currently waste about 70% of the light reaching the sensor. If a less-agressive hot mirror were employed, the difference might be even greater.
Unfortunately, such a beast would appeal to only a small market, and it would have some other drawbacks, specifically that you'd be stuck using a physical color filter or filters to get some of the same effects you can get doing conversions from color, giving back some of the sensitivity advantage and incurring a terrible penalty in flexibility. All in all, it seems a better approach to pursue a color sensor that does away with color filters, and process for B+W the way we do now, in software with pretty much infinite flexibility. Such a sensor would need to detect photon energy and derive color information from that. While this is possible and has been demonstrated, using this type of detection in an array containing millions of detectors is a looong way off, AFAIK.

Matthew

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Peleng 8mm f/3.5 Fisheye MC In M42 Mount

01/10/2006 10:07:07 AM · #55

I really liked Eye Control on my EOS 50e/Elan IIe, but I think that it could be tough to implement on something akin to the 20d: there are too many focus points. The 5e and 50e only had three to contend with. I would prefer more focus points than eye control, I think (aka 45 point systems).

The more I think about it, bluetooth with GPS capability would be great. Having all your photos tagged with precise location co-ordinates would be simply amazing when combined with something like Google World, enabling you to pick and choose images based on where you took them. Combine it with a compass to determine facing, and suddenly the world could be recorded in great detail and recorded inline - a modern Doomsday Book.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/10/2006 10:16:45 AM · #56

Originally posted by kirbic:

Such a camera would inherently have more than a 1-stop advantage in sensitivity over a color camera just from removing the color filters, which currently waste about 70% of the light reaching the sensor.

I wonder how B&W conversions from the 20Da compare to "normal" models...?

eschelar

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

01/10/2006 10:47:44 AM · #57

Interesting stuff. I would definitely pay for a better pixel pitch. using the 1d sensor but with 5 FPS with a 1.3x crop would suit me very nicely.

I seriously doubt that they would go this route though and it does make me sad. I do like the argument that they haven't made any L series lenses for the EF-S line and it would be a logical move. Companies don't make changes for logic though.

I would be much happier if they kept the 8MP sensor of the 20D but added redundancy color checkers like a cross between the Foveon and Fuji style sensor. This would effectively 'tweak' the interpolation methods and could improve their performance.

I also doubt that they will make any move to improve the ability of the sensor to actually gather more information (they haven't made any move towards this in any of their other cameras... the 1Ds series is more likely to get this kind of treatment as it at least competes a little closer to the big backs like the Hasselblad which use these techniques).

Wireless is almost a given at this point. They would be foolish to turn away from that.

What I think WOULD be very nice would be dual card slots. What would make that even sweeter would be a split or dual buffer that would allow the camera to write to both in succession for longer High speed RAW shooting sequences.

01/10/2006 11:45:18 AM · #58

Now if $3000 5D doesn't have wifi, gps, eye control, what makes folks think a $1500 camera will have those features, I don't know. Maybe it's hopeful thinking.

As Bob Atkins has predicted, I think Canon will start to phase out the 1.6crop sensor in everything else besides the Reble to distinguish the mid and upper level bodies from the entry level body. They certainly haven't introduced any EF-S lenses since the EF-S 60mm mcacro with the XT if memory serves me right. Nikon seems to be making some serious DX lenses, as a matter of fact the last two lenses have all been for FF and they even have a website from Canon devoted to how much better the FF is over the APS-C. If not with the 30D, perhaps with the 40D, but I think it's coming.

Message edited by author 2006-01-10 11:46:04.

kyebosh

Canon EF 80-200mm f/2.8L

01/10/2006 12:00:58 PM · #59

so where does everybody think that the glass will be the limiting factor in a 1.6x crop camera? People say it's already happening over on the nikon camp and if that's the case it'll happen on the canon side soon enough. What i don't understand is how those little PS cameras keep getting higher resolution ratings at dpreview even though the sensor size is TINY and the glass surely isn't as good as the excellent lenses used on DSLR resolution chart tests. With that said... I have been thinking of trading my 1D towards a (probably painfully slow) 5D. But who knows! Maybe the 30D will once again be a huge jump.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

01/10/2006 12:12:03 PM · #60

I like the SD support and RGB histograms on the 1DII. It'd be good if the SD/CF switching was automatic. I think the 1DIIN handles this better though.

I'd prefer if the 45 point AF actually covered more than 50% of the scene. That'd be useful.

I'd like ISO to be stepped up to an equivalent importance as aperture and shutter. It's the third variable in any exposure calculation and with the decent low noise performance, you should be able to select some sort of ISO priority mode or have it vary along with aperture/ shutter, at least within a specified range.

A button to switch on/off mirror lock up would be nice, or at least a customisable button that I could put it on. It's a pita to search for it in the custom functions every time. Maybe an
overrideable option to enable it by default when a remote release or the timer is used.

01/10/2006 12:36:06 PM · #61

Originally posted by kyebosh:

I think unless the sensor is really really bad, glass generally is the limiting factor. With L lenses, you aren't necessarily gettin more sharpness, what you get much more of is speed, IS, less variability of sharpness throughout focal lenghts and aperatures, less distortion, faster focusing, better contrast and color, and much better build quality.

Yup, those P/S cameras keep getting more MP's stuffed into a sensor the size of a pad of your pinkie finer, and hence they get noisier and noisier, so by about ISO 400 the image is getting close to useless. They do have decent to good resolution but if you look at real live images, they are noisy at anything more than ISO 200, generally speaking. Once again, it's not necessarily the resoultion. Look at how much CA there are on digicam's.

The 5D recently came down by $300 to $2999 accroding to Bob Atkins at Amazon.com, so it's looking to be a better deal.

theSaj

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

01/10/2006 12:51:55 PM · #62

Originally posted by kyebosh:

But who knows! Maybe the 30D will once again be a huge jump.

A lot of people think that Canon will limit the specifics of the 30D so as not to be too close to the 5D or 1D-line. But if we look at history. The 20D had similar specs to the 1D. And for half the price. So it's not unfeasible.

Canon 1D Mark II
8mp
8 fps

Canon 20D
8mp
5fps

Also, if I recall, wasn't the 20D the first to have the DigicII? It seems that the 20D/30D line is where they introduce new tech. Why? Because a pro buys a pro unit they want reliability. There is more leniency for a high-end non-pro unit to have flaw or feature quirks.

KevinRiggs

Canon EOS-1Ds

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

01/10/2006 12:53:55 PM · #63

Originally posted by Gordon:

I'd prefer if the 45 point AF actually covered more than 50% of the scene. That'd be useful.

I'd like ISO to be stepped up to an equivalent importance as aperture and shutter. It's the third variable in any exposure calculation and with the decent low noise performance, you should be able to select some sort of ISO priority mode or have it vary along with aperture/ shutter, at least within a specified range.

Amen to both of those. Spread out the AF points or make some AF regions outside the center 50%.

Kev

cresus

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

01/10/2006 12:57:07 PM · #64

I heard a rumor that Canon may start using sensor IS on the 30d. This would be awesome but probably hit Canon in the pockets (sell less IS lenses) so isn't very likely. That's what would make me buy a 30d though. Otherwise I can't see the improvements really being that substantial. Eye control would be really cool and I've always wondered why they don't introduce it in the consumer cameras as it really is convenient. My Elan 7e has it and it works perfectly (7 AF points so they're actually useful).

01/10/2006 08:32:38 PM · #65

When sensor are bigger than 1.6xcrop, it becomes difficult to have internal IS as you have to move a larger sensor over a longer distance, hence Canon seems to have no interest in the IS for the body, seeing as they are moving away from the 1.6x crop except for the rebel.

01/10/2006 08:34:02 PM · #66

.

Message edited by author 2006-01-17 00:25:37.

01/10/2006 08:35:31 PM · #67

.

Message edited by author 2006-01-17 00:24:45.

photodude

01/11/2006 09:28:07 AM · #68

Originally posted by legalbeagle:

Actually the eye control is still available on the Elan7 and i believe the Eos3 as well, which have more focusing points. That said, Canon reps at the NYC photo expo in October said in no uncertain terms that Eye control is a dead technology - for 2 reasons - the pro's arent interested and even when its an option such as on the elan - the non eye control is far more popular despite the E model only being about $50 more.

I'm disappointed too. I found it to be a great feature on my Elan and it already could be shut off very easily.

kyebosh

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

Canon EF 80-200mm f/2.8L

01/11/2006 11:09:58 AM · #69

From Fred Miranda's website...
"Some info. from this Japanese link: //reflect.gto.jp/member/canon_doller.htm . The 50D will have :

1.6 X crop sensor
10.3 MP
5.5 fps
AF unit of 5D"

perhaps the first leak?

Message edited by author 2006-01-11 11:11:20.

Prof_Fate

01/11/2006 11:45:42 AM · #70

Sold.
Now all i need is the money.

FS: Kidney or first born child. Best offer on the second LOL

cresus

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

01/11/2006 05:14:17 PM · #71

I don't believe they'll move away from 1.6. It's too ingrained right now with the EF-S lenses. I think 1.6 will be here for a while...I would love internal IS though, I would buy one for that reason alone not taking into account better resolution, ISO noise, etc...

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

01/11/2006 05:55:10 PM · #72

Clearly Canon's direction is to reduce their portfolio from three sensor sizes to two, and those sizes will surely be FF 35mm and APS-C (1.6-crop). The 20D successor will no doubt be APS-C. The 10.something Mpx has been rumored for some time, and there's no doubt in my mind that it will be at or above 10.0Mpx. As for other features, the only thing I'm almost certain of is that it will incorporate the 2.5" LCD as in 1DMkIIN, 5D. Beyond that, who knows. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the D200, with which it no doubt will directly compete.

photodude

01/11/2006 06:40:15 PM · #73

Originally posted by kyebosh:

Logan, all I see is a picture and alot of Japanese writing. Can you actually read that?

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

01/11/2006 06:45:50 PM · #74

Originally posted by photodude:

Originally posted by kyebosh:
From Fred Miranda's website...
"Some info. from this Japanese link: //reflect.gto.jp/member/canon_doller.htm . The 50D will have :

1.6 X crop sensor
10.3 MP
5.5 fps
AF unit of 5D"

perhaps the first leak?

Logan, all I see is a picture and alot of Japanese writing. Can you actually read that?

Somebody on Fred Miranda can, and translated it....

R.

hankk